Gript-A source of misinformation. **Read OP before posting**

Tony EH

I pay no attention to any of them

Then you're not even remotely qualified to talk about it.

AndrewJRenko

Give us some quick examples of fact checks that wouldn't go well for them please?

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562309#Comment_121562309

Well let's look at their latest fact check and rate it shall we?

https://www.thejournal.ie/winter-lights-christmas-dcc-dublin-city-council-name-twitter-charlie-flanagan-6257463-Dec2023/

The lights are on from the first of Dec to the first of Jannuary 1st, By the meteorological calendar, the first day of winter is always 1 December; ending on 28 (or 29 during a Leap Year) February. So what's this 'Winter lights BS, shouldn't these winter lights still be switched on for another 2 months rather then ....just over the Christmas period?

Also the sophistry of the argument that 'it's debunked because the new lights display in 2018 was never called 'Christmas lights in the first place', is just staggeringly disingenuous.

What were they called in 2016? May I reffer the Journal to their own 2016 article.....

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-christmas-lights-event-cut-short-3080559-Nov2016/

And the government pay these people to act as mudguards, sorry, 'fact checkers'? They should be embarrased to call themselves journalists.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562442#Comment_121562442

Eh, the lights on Graton Street (the "Christmas Lights" mentioned in the second article), are not part of the "Winter Lights" spoken about in the first article. They're two separate things.

The term Winter Lights was used because the local authority is not describing all the festive lights put up in the city – for example, the more traditional lights on Grafton Street are not included as part of the ‘Winter Lights’ programme.

If you're going to try to debunk a debunk, then at least understand the basics of what's being discussed.

AndrewJRenko

Did you actually read the sub-heading on the piece?

"Dozens of commenters have reacted expressing offence at the term – but it’s been in use since 2018."

They were crystal clear from the first line for the basis for their conclusion that it's been called 'Winter' for the last five years.

But speaking of fact-checking, where did you get the idea that the Government are paying people at TheJournal?

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562344#Comment_121562344

The one time I was on a fact checking website it was laced with emotive language!!! An idiot could see through it!!

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562623#Comment_121562623

Is this the standard of evidence that you're used to seeing on Grift? 'The one time I was on a type of website, it was .....'.

Don't suppose you could give any specific example(s) of the fact checking article(s) that you're concerned about?

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562641#Comment_121562641

I'm not concerned about anything, you are the one getting all hot and bothered!!

I'd extend the same trust to Gript as I do to any media outlet, I'd suggest you do the same but god knows what you'd me of!! Oh and if someone calls themselves a Fact Checker or a Wallet Inspector I wouldn't rush to trust them if I were you!!!

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562726#Comment_121562726

As explained earlier, I don't trust someone because they call the a fact checker. I trust someone because their articles are a rational analysis based on verifiable facts.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562127#Comment_121562127

The Journal was an attempt to replicate the business model (sort of commentary on other's content) of the Huffington Post, Buzzfeed and other US sites. However, they had massive markets whereas the Irish market is very small by comparison. That business model ran into serious financial problems in 2019 and over a thousand journalists were laid off from the Huffington Post, Buzzfeed and others in 2019. The Huffington Post deleted its opinion and health sections. It also led to the "Learn to code" meme.

The Journal seems to have dropped its attempt at a business news site (business readers want news and analysis rather than press releases. TheCurrency is a very good example of a success for this kind of business news and analysis model) and its sports effort (The42?). The Journal also seems to provide an outlet for commentary but the sources seem Left of centre.

The comments on the Journal articles are often more interesting than the articles themselves. The US market is better suited to that kind of user generated content (comments) businesses due to its legal protections under Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. Ireland has no equivalent so publishers might easily be found liable in legal actions. It seems to turn off comments on legal cases for obvious reasons.

Gript is nothing like The Journal in terms of content and I think that it does not typically allow comments on its articles. That seems to be for Social Media and it effectively limits Gript's legal liabilities in that it is not the publisher of user generated content.

Regards...jmcc

mariaalice

Why is there this persistent belief that trusted sources of information and the mainstream media are the answer?

Those who believe in whatever they believe in are not interested in facts, facts have little to nothing to do with it.

I know that's a bit pessimistic but it's the reality.

The post-Second World War social contract is broken and that's at the root of a lot of the issues along with the nature of human societies to construct a group to blame and that's on both the left and right.

Irish society has a long history of someone to blame starting with the British.

mariaalice

Facts in and of themselves are important though i.e it's been shown we had no excess deaths during the pandemic.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/26bd4-oecd-research-shows-ireland-avoided-excess-deaths-during-core-pandemic-years/

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563516#Comment_121563516

And I can't tell you the abuse people who pointed that out at the time received on here!!! The media weren't pointing it out, remember the daily death counts, for the bones of two years....and the media wonders where it's audience and influence have gone!!!

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563544#Comment_121563544

we didn't have excess deaths because government policy was the correct one.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563404#Comment_121563404

There is a distinct difference though, between Grift and other media outlets. Grift are trying to be the Irish GB News or Brietbart, blaming minorities and vulnerable groups for all our ills.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563544#Comment_121563544

There's no conflict between reporting daily death counts and this recent analysis showing no excess deaths.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563555#Comment_121563555

And you are entitled to your opinion.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563568#Comment_121563568

I don't have any opinion, it is the OECD.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563582#Comment_121563582

You are missing my point.

During that period, there were many posters pointing out the fact (that is now official) that we were not experiencing excess deaths, who were abused by others for holding that view, Covid Deniers, was one term frequently used...the media reported that over 8,000 died from Covid during that period...I could have told you we didn't experience excess deaths during that period, now, wait until we see the excess death rate from 2022...before you call me misinformed or some other banal insult.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562238#Comment_121562238

"Nobody can be trusted." Putin's wet dream.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562442#Comment_121562442

For fûcks sake, really? You type that and expect anyone to take it seriously?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562726#Comment_121562726

Why do Gript deserve as much trust as a media outlet?

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563404#Comment_121563404

I think that some of it is down to a shift from the merit model of education to the participation medal model. That indoctrinates people with the idea that all opinions are equal. They are not when it comes to specialist fields. It is possible to see a kind of Dunning Kruger effect with some people being completely unaware of how much they don't know opinionating away in the mainstream media and elsewhere as if they have a clue.

There seems to be some kind of belief that journalists in the mainstream media are very bright people. They are just normal people. A handful may be very bright but most are not. When it comes to specialist reporting, the mainstream media is NOT a trusted source because many journalists covering specialist fields have no expertise or background in those fields. The mainstream media is probably better described as being the non-specialist media. The skillset for basic Journalism is not difficult to acquire. That low entry bar makes it easy for publications to launch and quickly build an audience. Without three specific circumstances, it would have been very difficult for publications like Gript to get started.

The fragmentation of the audience for mainstream journalism is due in no small part to the incompetence of the decisions in the 1990s by the print news media to shift to opinion rather than reporting. Reporting is expensive. Gript's audience does not seem to be catered for by the mainstream media. That left an uncontested market market for Gript's content.

The rise of the Web in the 1990s started to put a lot of pressure on the legacy media but it was the launch of the smartphone and always-on Internet in the late 2000s that really put the boot in on the legacy media model. The smartphone makes it easier to access content on the Web and more people have a smartphone than have a desktop computer (1990s and early 2000s).

The cost of online publishing means that it is cheaper to start an online publication than a print one.

The "Us and Them" conflict over beliefs is quite visible here with people criticising Gript. Perhaps people think that they are liberal while Gript is conservative. The problem is that the some of the people who think that they are liberal are not. Part of being liberal is accepting that others have different beliefs. It isn't necessary to agree with those beliefs. Every true believer needs a heretic to condemn. That, more than the breakdown of the social contract, is what has reemerged.

Regards...jmcc

bsloepro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564384#Comment_121564384

Why do they deserve less? Why not read them all and come to your own conclusions?

They’re all as subject to getting it wrong as the next. Sure, John McGuirk got it wrong regards the Parnell street incident - they all get it wrong from time to time. How many had no problem incorrectly reporting the nationality of the perpetrator after the Aisling Murphy murder?

Take the reporting of another incident. In the wake of the Parnell street standings there was an article in gript along the lines of “parents had voiced their concerns weeks earlier about the proximity of the male hostel to the school”. The only place “I” could find that reported was on gript. Whilst around the same time there was an article on all the main stream media outlets about the government informing Gardai regarding security concerns about the centre in the hotel in Ross that was set on fire - Not reported in gript. I think the only way to get a balanced outlook is to read a range of news media - both national and international.

I’d be highly SCEPTICAL of anything with a government link though - ie RTE - but that said I wouldn’t be accusing them of being HIGHLY polarised one way or the other - nor would I attribute that to gript.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562479#Comment_121562479

Its what they always do, conflate two different things as the same to present a narrative

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564426#Comment_121564426

Gript articles are designed to push an narrative, not based on objective evidence.

Hoop66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564426#Comment_121564426

In the wake of the Parnell street standings there was an article in gript along the lines of “parents had voiced their concerns weeks earlier about the proximity of the male hostel to the school”. The only place “I” could find that reported was on gript.

Well, colour me surprised. This is how Gript operates.

bsloepro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564502#Comment_121564502

I know - it’s terrible reporting news that doesn’t fit the narrative. Surely the most important thing here is - did the parents voice their concerns about the school in Parnell street? If they did then surely Gript should be commended for reporting it - it not then they should be criticised

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563372#Comment_121563372

You believe the Journal is left of centre because your Overton window has been shifted.

Opinions and policies that 20 years ago were comfortably centrist or centre right are now labelled as far left, libtard, socialist etc. This was partially driven by Bill Clinton's / New Labour's policy shifts which widely adopted many centre right policies. The traditional right then shifted right to differentiate themselves from the "new left". Anything pomoted by the Dems or New Labour was thus labelled "left" even though it was far from left.

And still, in the US for example, Democratic policies remain mostly Centrist or Centre Right however the rhetoric of the right has convinced people that they are actually hard left. At a push, the very left wing of the Democratic party could be considered slightly left of centre.

Likewise here - Fine Geal are Centre Right, FF - Centre Right, SF - Centre, SD - Centre Left, Labour - Centre, Greens - Centre, PBP etc - Left.

bsloepro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564498#Comment_121564498

You’re entitled to your opinion. You could well be right.

How do you feel about the facts posted in this article - are they not based on evidence

https://gript.ie/facts-about-the-ringsend-emergency-accommodation-proposal/

What I see on MSM often looks to be pushing a narrative too.

That’s my point - you need to read both ends of the scale to get a balanced picture.

Hoop66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564507#Comment_121564507

Well, yes. And seeing as the only outlet reporting it is Gript I am, to say the least, sceptical. Did the "mum" in the piece voice her concerns to any other media outlets, or solely to Gript?

Is it not normal to identify sources in an article? Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm certainly used to seeing people identified: "A mum at the school, Brenda Harris, 38, said...".

So, you'll forgive me if I am, as I said, sceptical.