Increase in Anti-EV Media Articles

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145215#Comment_122145215

I'll accept what ever the data clarifies. If say by the starting point I proffered of comparing data from the introduction of the first EV into a market, then if the rate of fires say ICE is higher than EV, or vice versa then fine. I don't feel I'm batting for a side.

I'm curious as to what data available tells us.

I'm not sure what the example of your multi car fire is supposed to argue, but I'd just like to know if there's any info on the rate of a single vehicle catching fire independently.

For comparison it's the rate and not the total of fires in each segment that matters.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145052#Comment_122145052

when did this happen?

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137078#Comment_122137078

I somehow have my doubts :-)

The interaction of drive/ charge mode and all the electronics control would be well beyond me. My last two cars owned by myself both had engine management problems, my Fiat being scrapped through it and my Ex company Focus failing a test up in NI as there was a warning lamp that was illuminated ever since the ECU was changed.

I don't think a turbo makes a car more complex, it rotates at a very high speed though and any lubrication problem is going to be pretty terminal. In the case of the Mazda's a new turbo worked for less than a week as the oil found the metal debris from the old one and carried it around the engine.

Gone are the days when electronics was an assembly of multiple source components of known, standard parameters. Even the simplest motor drives use "custom parts" these days, I daresay in the case of an EV, the tacho and temperature sensors are part of the drive and integrated within the motors.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145456#Comment_122145456

A car without a turbo vs one with a turbo has less parts "everything else being equal". So you don't have to fix a turbo and it's ancillaries if it breaks.

Considering turbo problem are common.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145309#Comment_122145309

Hence the %.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145451#Comment_122145451

Eqe getting “extinguished” from the Fremantle Highway.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146430#Comment_122146430

how long did the runaway fire last for, in days?

https://electrek.co/2023/07/26/surprise-media-is-misreporting-the-source-of-a-dutch-cargo-ship-fire/

Peter Berdowski, the chief of the salvage company Royal Boskalis Westminster NV, revealed that between 900 and 1,000 cars, including the EVs, were, in fact, in good condition after the incident. 

The fire’s origin was eventually traced to the eighth deck of the 12-deck ship, far from the electric vehicle storage areas.

Gerrymandering reborn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122144777#Comment_122144777

"If your life or driving doesn't suit an EV don't buy one. I'm not buying a 2 seater convertible for the same reason. I'm also not buying diesel for same reason."

This is a very good point. EV suits a lot of people and are an excellent mode of transport. But at the same time, we need to understand the EV don't suit a lot of people either and won't suit them. The dismal EV sales figures clearly portray this. While EV's definitely have a big role in the future, the ICE which is tried, tested and trusted won't be going away. Even the EU has hinted at this.

If we want to reduce our emissions, perhaps it's time we start exploring other areas apart from motor vehicles.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146449#Comment_122146449

I know you do like being a bit prim and passive aggressive and it does get reactions, but presumably the ev was dunked into a solution so it would not stay on fire for days.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146514#Comment_122146514

That it won't suit everyone does not a valid excuse the utter collapse of the market here.

The govt has let all the fud go unchecked. They should have had a counter media campaign, and not reduced incentives. They could have got ahead of the industry and insisted on SOH for batteries etc. Build consumer confidence etc.

Giving up on emissions is not the way forward..

fatbhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145451#Comment_122145451

The Rimac from The Grand Tour that Richard Hammond crashed. 5 days. Next question…

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147129#Comment_122147129

What I find interesting about that story is the only source mentioned of the "5 days" comment is credited to James May. No idea if thats correct. It just seems to have been repeated everywhere. But yet there are news articles with photos, of it the following day and subsequent already burnt out. Days earlier.

I did find a comment from the recovery team, that said they hosed down for 8 hrs to cool it down before removing it, and they weren't in any rush because no-one was in any danger from it and it was still hot. It was special Prototype with the battery boosted.

Its not the first car thats been burnt on that show.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/entertainment/a16569969/top-gear-burned-an-alpine-a110-to-the-ground-during-filming/

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146647#Comment_122146647

no need to get prissy maidhc you have a terrible habit of forgetting what you responded to. I asked another poster when an ev was burning for days, you decided you'd answer but look a bit silly now because obviously that car wasn't on fire for days nor was the fire on that ship caused by evs despite the initial reports. You seem intent on continuing the ev fire FUD tho.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147129#Comment_122147129

and when did it actually happen, answer is never, next false statement…

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147431#Comment_122147431

You are an ill tempered soul god love you.

i don’t own a car without a traction battery and as you point out hybrids are probably more likely than either bevs and pure ice cars to go on fire given the presence of voltage and hydrocarbons. Big deal.

I think the main issue with bevs right now is they are a solution desperately searching for a problem and they are still an immature technology. There mk1 Prius was dire compared to a modern hybrid. With EVs the same is true and even though Tesla appear to have given up and the European manufacturers are unable, the Chinese will probably lead with new developments.

to be fair to you though, if the early adopters didn’t adopt it would be left to the rest of us.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147546#Comment_122147546

not at all but its the standard preserve of your kind to resport to ad hominen type posts when your trolling gets exposed. You have been presented with plenty of evidence to refute your hunch and the FUD you are intent on spreading.

By all means carry on but dont expect to post nonsense unchallenged.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147959#Comment_122147959

I’m probably not going to get into a quarrel with as quarrelsome a type as yourself, but I think I’m pretty fair and balanced. Indeed I’m the only person in many posts to actually put up a pro Bev article and I have said at every hands turn the are probably the future of motoring; I just don’t get the refusal of some to accept there are currently some shortcomings and the reference to certain articles that point out these shortcomings as anti ev. It’s truly mad hatter stuff.

Even if the ev industry collapses and we all are “forced” to drive v8s, is that a bad thing for self described motor enthusiasts??? Worth getting all high about? I think not.

good day to you sir!

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148098#Comment_122148098

the reference to certain articles that point out these shortcomings as anti ev. It’s truly mad hatter stuff.

Is it though?

The articles that have been linked here have been thoroughly debunked, you seem to have chosen to ignore that. Like the one about car parks collapsing under the weight of all the EVs. That was arrant nonsense, made worse by the comparison with 1970s cars (which yes, may be appropriate for car parks built in that era - but they are few and far between) when modern cars of all types are at least twice as heavy as those from that era. To pick out 2.5% of the fleet as a danger to those car parks is "mad hatter stuff".

Then we have the fires. Lots of data out there from countries where there is a large uptake of EVs (Sweden was quoted) that prove EVs are 20 times less likely than ICEs to go on fire. This is from data, not some reactionary FUD based on nothing more than some headline incidents where multiple similar incidents involving ICE cars are largely ignored.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148098#Comment_122148098

Well if as impartial a judge as yourself thinks your own posts are fair and balanced how could one argue, interesting that you perceive someone who calls out nonsense as quarrelsome, time for some self reflection on your side.

i am more than happy to discuss legitimate short comings but this fire nonsense isnt that.

Good day indeed.

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147129#Comment_122147129

You do realise that the Grand Tour/Top Gear is fake as f—k, right? Literally been proven many times to have faked things and maniuplated situations, and outright lied to tell a better story. It's a scripted entertainment show. It is not factual.

I've no idea about a Rimac/batteries, but using that as "proof" is moronic.

RoboRat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146690#Comment_122146690

Absolutely agree. The reason EV sales are low is mainly because of FUD.

To say that an EV won't suit the majority of this small island is absurd. You can travel from Malin head to Mizen head with one charging stop in most new EVs with a reasonable battery. The average annual mileage in Ireland is 17,000km or 327km per week. Any reasonably sized EV would do that on a single charge. 12% of dwellings in Ireland are apartments as per the 2016 census figures. Even if 20% were apartments now, that would mean 80% are houses. I would guess that at least 50% of those have a driveway.

The cost would have been a factor in the past, but EVs are more affordable than ever now. My LR MG4 cost less than an entry-level Golf which would be a similar size. There are used EVs at great prices too. The price of fuel is rising and an EV will cost a fraction to power. Then you consider the lower tax and lower maintenance costs. I got my insurance for half the price of what I was paying.

FUD is deterring a lot of people, and it seems the more people embrace EVs, the more FUD appears. This isn't coincidental. I have worked in marketing for over 20 years and know how negative PR works. There are a lot of very rich businesses with a lot to lose from EV adoption. Many people who spread the FUD haven't a clue about EVs. They are parroting what they see and they're ensuring that Big Oil stays lucrative.

I was apprehensive when I was buying my first EV as I was influenced by the narrative that is out there. Thankfully, I had worked with an EV enthusiast and he was more than happy to dispel the myths. I have changed quite a few people's minds since I got my EV (the latest 2 days ago), just by talking to them and countering the FUD. This goes to show that FUD is the problem - if it wasn't then I shouldn't be able to change their minds as they would have a valid reason for not considering an EV.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149167#Comment_122149167

I have changed quite a few people's minds since I got my EV (the latest 2 days ago), just by talking to them and countering the FUD. This goes to show that FUD is the problem - if it wasn't then I shouldn't be able to change their minds as they would have a valid reason for not considering an EV.

Hadn't thought about it like that. I've seen a few posts on here recounting similar experiences, so possibly quite widespread. Had a neighbour list off all the FUD stuff to me a couple of weeks ago. I just started laughing, but promised to drop into them some evening and let them have a test drive. Must do that soon.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149167#Comment_122149167

You are wrong. People are not that stupid and for the most part are rational.

A ice/hybrid does what they want. A Bev doesn’t really do anything better for the ordinary driver. I bought 2x €50k cars in the past 12 months. I did contemplate a Bev, but there was just no compelling reason. Whether to buy a diesel or hybrid bothered me more.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149359#Comment_122149359

There's a whole thread on EV sales for 2024. Most people don't care enough about cars to do any serious research beyond going to a garage, they buy the car that is sold to them.

The last 12 months of crazy EV fud stories has had an impact. If you aren't willing to go and research stories it would be irrational to ignore the papers.

Gerrymandering reborn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149662#Comment_122149662

To be fair, most people who are in a position to purchase a new car (either outright or by finance) are not idiots just because they don't choose an EV. Maybe they just don't want the hassles of an EV especially around charging. But maybe they want to do their bit for the environment and therefore are purchasing a Hybrid which is the best of both worlds

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149760#Comment_122149760

There's no need to call them idiots for not buying an EV.

The point is that most people buying cars don't really do that much research, they go into a garage of a brand they like and will buy a car that the salesperson steers them towards.

I think the fact that manufacturers have a financial incentive to sell EVs in 2025, and make as much money from selling non-EVs in 2024 before the new standards kick in is a much more likely explanation than any change in consumer sentiment. The dealer bonus per model has a more of a say on the car a consumer leaves the garage with than anything else.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149760#Comment_122149760

Arguably it's the worse of both worlds, but that depend on the objective.

These are lot of people who are wealthy and are idiots. Thats not mutually exclusive.

If someone has a reasoned argument for an EV or simply doesn't want one that's fair enough. But too often it's FUD. Calling them idiots is fair enough. Likewise someone buying an expensive EV and trying to fill it will petrol.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149864#Comment_122149864

If that were true, EVS would sell well as manufacturers are anxious to amortise the cost of developing them and would steer their agents towards the sale of them.

a lot of things fail in the market for different reasons. I think for bevs is that they simply don’t have a usp for the ordinary buyer and may doing somethings slightly worse for a higher tco.

I don’t think bevs will fail mind you, but we need to get over this pentium pro/hddvd/betamax/dvd+rw phase first.

RoboRat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149359#Comment_122149359

People are not stupid, but they are easily led, easy to manipulate, and often don't bother to fact-check. The marketing industry is worth an estimated $1.7 trillion worldwide… why do you think that is? It's because it's very lucrative to influence people and lead them. Here is another ditty; last year there were 365,000 cases of fraudulent scams in Ireland alone. Some of this is stupidity, but more often than not, it's because people are too busy to check, are not paying attention, or are just not bothered to investigate. They accept things at face value.

You say an ICE/ Hybrid does what they need. Unless you're doing 300km plus per day or 78,000km per year on a 5-day working week, an EV is suitable if you have the means for home charging. There are very few people doing more than 300km a day regularly. The fact that the national average is 17,000km proves this.

With a hybrid, you are not getting the best of both worlds, you're getting a full ICE engine with all the associated maintenance and carbon build-up, along with a small battery. If you use the battery most of the time, you're losing range because you have a big ass motor that you're carrying. If you use the motor most of the time, you have a heavy battery that you're carrying.

I genuinely don't understand the rhetoric around Hybrids. The only explanation I see is that there's a degree of comfort in having a backup engine. This is because the average Joe and Jane don't trust EVs and that is down to the deliberate spreading of FUD.

 Bev doesn’t really do anything better for the ordinary driver.

Except save you an absolute fortune on fuel, has zero tailpipe emissions, cheaper tax, and less maintenance. Yep, nothing better.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149921#Comment_122149921

l could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

My view is an EV is an immature technology. I’ll buy one sometime, but for now it’s no more expensive to run a hybrid and the total tco is less.