The new recycling system

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591964#Comment_121591964

I dont think the scenario you paint will be commonplace. It will of course happen from time to time. If it is commonplace, I'll happily admit I am wrong.

I would hope the majority of retailers will have a plastic and metal recycling bin beside the RVMs to allow people to dispose of rejected items. I doubt they will tho.

Carlito Brigantes Tale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591581#Comment_121591581

That's right and that's on the low side.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591972#Comment_121591972

Well Bren I’ve never been asked how many of my cans I recycle, have you ?

figures sound made up at worst misrepresented at best.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591990#Comment_121591990

Any source for that being common place in other countries with RVMs? Or are you just plucking that number out of thin air?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591908#Comment_121591908

He has been dishonestly bandying that figure around for weeks. Not even re-turn are suggesting it's anywhere near 35%.

That is all aluminium. Not just cans.

The EPA do not have a breakdown of cans or plastic bottles. Everything is either aluminium or plastic.

They estimate in weight.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592005#Comment_121592005

Did I ask you how many cans you recycle???

I don't know the answer to your previous question. I would have thought using very simply magnets, aluminium cans could be removed from general waste incredibly easily. The magnets simply push them away.

If you want to dispute the EPAs figures, thats a different ballgame I don't want to get into with anyone. If you're disputing those statistics, then theres no commonground on the topic for us.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592033#Comment_121592033

Well there is ? It’s how does this scheme fix that number - it’s that simple.

Is that 35 % of cans presented for recycling are actually recycled or is it of all cans going out in a given timeframe 35% end up in a recycling bin. Two very different problems.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592031#Comment_121592031

Ah so misrepresented then. I wonder can we find this companies pitch to government.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592060#Comment_121592060

Yes misrepresentation and lies are quite common on this thread amongst a few vocal posters.

The same environmental company have been hired to do an analysis on this by multiple countries and that's where the basis of the scheme starts.

I haven't come across them suggesting the scheme wouldn't be suitable for any country.

Reading the report existing recycling schemes were glossed over or any proposals just ignored.

Every report came to the same conclusion, but but but Norway.

If only we could be like Norway in every way.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592031#Comment_121592031

Original comment: it’s mad that cans are included as there is no issue with aluminum recycling.

My response: your statement that there is no issue with aluminum recycling is incorrect.  Including a link to the figure and source.

Where is my misrepresentation? Where is my dishonesty? Aluminium recycling is below the target. Of course, you want to twist fact to your own narrative.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591551#Comment_121591551

Anecdotally, we used the one in Citywest shopping centre which gave 10c per container back to Citywise (https://www.citywise.ie/). When the machine worked it was okay but quite slow feeding one at a time and it did send a lot of cans back without a reason.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592060#Comment_121592060

How is it misrepresented? Aluminium recycling is below the target. Theres zero misrepresentation. Like zero.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592090#Comment_121592090

The machines won't be taking back old windows. So it is beyond obvious we are talking about cans.

Please stop being dishonest, you are fooling no one.

Low grade posting.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592106#Comment_121592106

The purpose of this scheme is to get Ireland to the correct recycling rate for aluminium and plastic. You reduce the argument to plastic bottles and cans.

The OP referred to Irelands aluminium recycling rate and I responded with the facts accordingly.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592101#Comment_121592101

Massive amounts.

It’s like saying 35% of the population are dying and then saying let’s build more ambulances, no good since we have no idea why or how the people are dying. is the hospital full? Is there a disease. is there a mad doctor killing people?

It’s called a root cause analysis - I’ve yet to see one one relation to the scheme. If you have one please share it.

I want to see the existing problem(in detail) and how this actually solves it.

I don’t want to see random figures tossed about, if you can provide a figure say what exactly it is. There is a chain here and the end user is only a small part of it.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592159#Comment_121592159

How exactly is it a random figure? I provided you with a link to exactly where it came from. You can make your own mind up.

No matter what evidence is presented, you'll complain. Lets wait and see do we start getting closer to our recycling targets in 13 months time.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591886#Comment_121591886

Just noting, nothing is linked here.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592178#Comment_121592178

Let’s not introduce massive taxes at the expense of the nation based on a private company wanting to make some cash based on some lose figures mis-represented.

thomas 123

Also why doesn’t the website answer or attemp to address any of these seemingly critical questions:

https://re-turn.ie/

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592179#Comment_121592179

https://www.epa.ie/our-services/monitoring--assessment/waste/national-waste-statistics/packaging/

Apologies, I was referring to Figure 4. I thought I had included the link.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592192#Comment_121592192

Massive taxes? Massive? Bring your plastic bottles and cans back - zero charge.

I expect there will be an increase in domestic waste collection as there is a loss in revenue to these companies. This is an opinion, not a fact.

Where's the "massive" tax? Massive.... Come on, you seem relatively reasonable.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592257#Comment_121592257

Yeah, so;

"

Data compilation

Ireland’s packaging waste generation and treatment figures are compiled by EPA using data obtained from waste operators (collectors and facilities), local authorities, and waste brokers and from Repak annually. Relevant characterisation factors are applied to the data for mixed waste streams to estimate the proportion of packaging based on the EPA’s most recent waste characterisation studies.

"

This means(in my opinion) that of all the cans they got only 35% went to recycling because it was probably easier to bury them in landfill or burn them in an incinerator(not sure if they burn in an incinerator someone may clarify)

Unfortunately it appears that these cant that go through the return system are going to meet the same fate. Nothing is changing that regard it seems.

As one poster mentioned yesterday, at least the bottle being returned in one piece means it should be of high quality for recycling.

Importantly this 35% figure has absolutely nothing to do with me, you, the pope or boggles putting cans in our bins.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592318#Comment_121592318

The cans that go through the RVM will be recycled as per the FAQ's on the ReTurn website:

All containers collected will be sent for recycling. The Deposit Return Scheme focuses on maximising the volume and quality of material collected for recycling.

Unless you believe the scheme is lying of course.

You said you didn't know why cans were included in the scheme because aluminium recycling rates were fine. That is incorrect, you drew the distinction between cans and aluminium recycling rates. I responded with the figure of 35%. If you made a mistake and meant to say aluminium can recycling rates are fine, that's fine. However, to say it has nothing to do with you is unfair.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592273#Comment_121592273

a slab of soft drink usually on offer for 10-12 euro will incur what 3.60? That's a big tax proportionally.

The point I'm trying to make to you is with the data on hand, this inconveniences people for what exactly? All that's happened here is someone else is collecting it at the expense of literally every party involved in the chain.

There is nothing on their website that says everything accepted by this machine will be recycled into something else - it says it will go to recycling, like I currently do with my recycling bin.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592354#Comment_121592354

 "sent for recycling" - Means brought to the local waste centre or put on a ship to china or africa. Exactly what we do right now.

"

You said you didn't know why cans were included in the scheme because aluminium recycling rates were fine. That is incorrect, you drew the distinction between cans and aluminium recycling rates. I responded with the figure of 35%. If you made a mistake and meant to say aluminium can recycling rates are fine, that's fine. However, to say it has nothing to do with you is unfair.

"

As pointed out that figure is from the bin collectors, not how many people recycle their cans, the behaviour that the RVM is supposed to fix. There is no evidence to suggest it needs fixing in my opinion.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592378#Comment_121592378

And when you return the cans, you get €3.60 back. Theres zero tax.

I interpret that sentence as everything will be recycled. Clean, segregated containers, no reason for them to not be. I guess we will have to wait and see what the figures are in 12 months time regarding recycling rates specifically with ReTurn.

Sconsey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591837#Comment_121591837

I'm not saying they are lying, actual recycling levels may increase, but I have my doubts....there is no plastic recycling capability in Ireland today, no indication that funding from this scheme will change that. So all this new clean plastic is going to be recycled overseas as opposed to shipped to the incinerator in Dublin? would be good if the Return scheme made that clear. I suspect this is more of a plastic collection exercise with little to no information on the recycling (if any) that will increase.

Like I said, the EPA reports for the next few years will make it clear. The term 'recycling' in Ireland today is abused, especially when it comes to plastic.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592716#Comment_121592716

There is a PET recycler in Castleblayney that has been there for decades. You can see the bales outside if you go up the Castleblayney bypass.

Recyclers have significant problems with the quality of PET from mixed recycling bins, e.g. its contaminated crap.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592716#Comment_121592716

I agree the wording on the scheme could be clearer. Ultimately, its a game and sit and wait and see what the recycling rates are next year. One would obviously hope to see an improvement.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592736#Comment_121592736

Recyclers have significant problems with the quality of PET from mixed recycling bins, e.g. its contaminated crap.

Unless their is uranium being mixed in, the vast majority can be "washed".

The problem in Ireland is they don't have the equipment at scale to do the washing.

The crowd in Limerick who have been awarded the contract are currently building theirs.

Recycling plastic is more expensive and more polluting than creating virgin plastic. A niche amount of companies want the recycled plastic label though because it gives the illusion they are kind to the environment.

Burning it to create energy is probably less polluting.

Burning it in a barrel out the back probably even less so.