The new recycling system

gipi

I wonder if the drinks manufacturers, who now have to make specific labels for the Irish market for the re-turn scheme, will consider going back to glass, so they can avoid all the faffing about?

Maybe that's the ulterior motive.....😄

Yakov P. Golyadkin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472512#Comment_121472512

Feel free to read my other posts where I have demonstrated that there is a problem.

We didn't, because glass recycling rates are satisfactory. İt has been indicated that this may change if the rate declines.

Galwayguy35

I don't have bins, I just bring a few bags of recycable cans and bottles every few weeks to the centre every few weeks.

I'll just continue doing this.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121471747#Comment_121471747

This may well be another unintended consequence of this daft duplication of schemes.

Whereas the householder currently paying for collection of recyclables, should get a reduction with this new scheme. They may in fact have to shoulder a price increase. Just when is the next election. The crap will hit the fan and Minister Ossian Smyth better get a new raincoat.

This is a fine scheme to help counter littering but it's completely at odds with responsible voting households current system of dealing with recycling. Talk about pissing off the wrong people.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472648#Comment_121472648

You didn't demonstrate anything, you can't because the figures don't exist.

In 2019 the scheme was estimated at an annual cost of 82m.

Given what has happened since would a doubling of that figure be more accurate?

The main funding stream will come from Unredeemed Deposits.

So that answers my question as to why it isn't an automated cash/debit return deposit.

Some people may call that blatant thievery.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472729#Comment_121472729

Whereas the householder currently paying for collection of recyclables, should get a reduction with this new scheme. They may in fact have to shoulder a price increase.

There is no may about it, it's in the policy document.

The loss of revenue streams incurred by the waste management companies will be paid for by their customers.

It's baked in.

Of course this will be based on projected gross income, not net, because who is going to check that?

Padraig Mor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474071#Comment_121474071

So the scheme really isn't cost neutral as claimed? The large majority of people who are already recycling these materials anyway will now pay more for *not* recycling them at home, plus have the hassle of trying to get this extra tax back at the shop.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474121#Comment_121474121

The claim is cost neutral and convenient for all.

The hassle to get your money back is by design, the main revenue stream for this scheme will come from Unredeemed Deposits.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472317#Comment_121472317

Do the botles/cans in the Netherlands have to be undamaged when you return them?

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474169#Comment_121474169

I'm coming at this question from a position of pure ignorance. If I pay a deposit in a small store and return all my bottles and cans to the likes of Tesco, does Tesco lose on this and the small store gain?

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474259#Comment_121474259

Yes. It is exactly the same.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472128#Comment_121472128

with the concomitant reduction in litter

There's your assumption right there. I can't see teenagers carrying around empties can you? They'll continue to stick them in my hedge

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474337#Comment_121474337

If they do you will literally have a money tree in your garden 🙂

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474071#Comment_121474071

Won't the waste company get a load of clean and sorted recyclables when they take in the cans and bottles emptied from the machines ?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474381#Comment_121474381

No. That will be revenue for the scheme. The high value trash belongs to them and the revenue generated will go into operating the scheme.

In 2019 the proposal was to buy 67 trucks at 122k a truck.

The reality is it won't be worth the waste companies while to collect recyclables, so 2 things will happen. The cost of the recycle bin will increase substantially and they will be phased out to optional.

You don't have to be a genius to work out the net effect of that.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474453#Comment_121474453

Thanks for the clarification.

Will the scheme have to open depots in various parts of the country?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474267#Comment_121474267

No the larger stores gain.

They will be the ones who have the space for the automatic machines, so therefore the majority of the vouchers will be large retail vouchers.

Norway is citied, 90% of the vouchers come from 14% of retail.

The small stores are just going to have to take the hit, the hassle of processing and storing cans and bottles manually just wouldn't be practical or cost effective.

This scheme very much favours big grocery retail.

Store vouchers are by design used to increase consumption not reduce it. So it's very much a win for your Tescos, Dunnes and German stores.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474506#Comment_121474506

The scheme is going to be run by a newly private for profit company.

It will be a literal new waste management company.

So yes, depots, offices, workshops, garages, machinery, transport etc.

So basically "we" have given over the main profitability part of recycling packaging to one collection company. They will also control the price I imagine. The beauty of it though is we have turned everyone in the country into micro waste collection agents at our cost.

So if the company gets into financial trouble, that 15 cent goes to 20 cent and that 25 cent goes to 30 cent, and I think we know where all that usually ends up.

I imagine there was quite a few tenders.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474121#Comment_121474121

Exactly yet again the majority who have always done the right thing being forced to fund the cost of dealing with the minority who dont and being labeled pathetic for having the temerity to point this out. There will be no dissent..

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474519#Comment_121474519

Seems like unnecessary duplication of facilities seeing as the various waste companies already have the infrastructure to deal with recyclables.

There is no "price" to the consumer as long as they return the recyclables so how will the "price" rise ?

Likewise an increase in the deposit won't cost the consumer except for the money not being available to them until they do the return.

At the end of the day it's our waste so we need to take responsibility for it.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474805#Comment_121474805

The price is the increase in bin collection fees from your house. it’s an indirect price.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474905#Comment_121474905

Sorry, maybe I misunderstood Boggles but I thought he was suggesting that the price could go up over time if the company got into difficulty.

It seems to me that if the waste collection companies are allowed a price increase due to losing income from recyclables that it should only be a once off as they will only lose the income once.

Having said that I'm sure the waste companies will look for increases over time citing other reasons IE. inflation, rising costs etc.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473955#Comment_121473955

Again, for the final time, recycling rates for plastic bottles are estimated at above 60%. The EU directive requires that this be increased to 90%. The difference between the two figures is the problem. If you don't wish to acknowledge that problem I can't help you any further.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474337#Comment_121474337

Concomitant - naturally accompanying or associated. It does not mean that the numbers will correlate exactly, not did I suggest that they would.

And you can fish them out of your hedge and be rewarded for it.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475284#Comment_121475284

I’ve no issue with the scheme and can see why it is being brought in.

However, saying there is no price to the consumer is disingenuous.

There is a price in terms of domestic bin rates increasing. That’s not quite a one off either. Increases in landfill prices may have been offset by increasing prices for cans etc. Not anymore, there is slightly less insulation from price increases now.

Theres also an increase in inconvenience. If I buy a bottle or can of coke in work, I now have to bring it home undamaged. I can’t dispose of it in the recycling bin in work. That’s incredibly annoying. The same is true if I go to a friends house and bring a few cans. I’m hardly bringing the empties back. In both scenarios, there’s zero benefit to the scheme and the price is my time and possibly the deposit in those scenarios.

Saying that. It’s minor and if it increases recycling rates to 90%, it’ll be great.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474511#Comment_121474511

So a supermarket with space inside or outside, can install the return machines, and therefore the machine acts as a pull factor, drawing customers to the shop who may not otherwise have gone there?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475398#Comment_121475398

This is sanctimonious crap. There are many people like ourselves who not only pay for a recyclable bin collection for our own materials but who will pick up litter - both rubbish and recyclable bottles and cans out of roadside ditches in our locales. And put it in with our own collection. This is called civic duty my friend - there is no cost to the state. Much of this roadside waste is already trashed, squashed - run over and will not be taken by any machine.

Do you think we're going to continue doing the like of this and paying for increased bin collection charges and having to return materials to machines in car parks. Get lost.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475343#Comment_121475343

Assuming your figures are correct and that's a big if, where's the evidence that the missing 40% of plastic bottles are being thrown away as litter. It's quite likely that many end up in the waste stream and are fuelling incinerators.

And as per a recent reveal on RTE radio, there were serious allegations that the waste collection companies themselves are guilty in part for this. By diverting collections of clean, dry recyclable material to the incinerator plant. Scandalous.

ednwireland

Who owns re-turn ? All I can find is

DRSI CLG, trading as Re-turn, appointed scheme administrator for DRS

Re-turn is a new company limited by guarantee and was established by beverage producers and retailers in order to fulfil their obligations

Who actually owns this company , whose profiting ?

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475398#Comment_121475398

Could you be any more disingenuous? I pick litter every week - some recyclable and some not - and pay to dispose of it. Plastic bottles and cans, besides being filthy, or almost always crushed. So there is far from a reward for picking up litter.