The new recycling system

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475626#Comment_121475626

I am also inclined to go along with the scheme, the machines are in place, the die is cast.

I hope I'm not being disingenuous and I have identified the inconvenience issue for good current recyclers in many posts on the issue.

I agree there will be an increase in bin charges but I hope it will be small.

This scheme is open to anyone who buys a plastic can or bottle. You don't need to have a bin service.

Like yourself I hope it will help us to meet recycling targets.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476345#Comment_121476345

It's literlly punishing those that have/use a recycle bin already. As I said earlier, as someone who has had access to a recycle bin for years now and someone that has switched to delivered shopping in the past few months, it's highly unlikely I will be going to the local shop every week or so with a bag of empties, just to get there and find the machine is broken, full or has a queue at it (depending on how successful the scheme is)

It's more likely I'll be avoiding buying those type of containers going forward as they will cost me more. This, as I said, isn't a bad thing.

That's just my use case. I know my mother who lives alone but has never had access to a recycle bin, would have a different set of issues, and plenty other issues here from others as well.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121474805#Comment_121474805

There is no "price" to the consumer as long as they return the recyclables so how will the "price" rise ?

Of course there is, the company's main funding stream will be got from unclaimed deposits.

That's before you factor in the rise in collection rates and the cost to return your bottles and cans.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475833#Comment_121475833

I really don't care. The system is on the way, you'll just have to deal with it.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475343#Comment_121475343

Again, for the final time, recycling rates for plastic bottles are estimated at above 60%

Again for the final time, show me where and how they got that figure?

Either way it isn't the pertinent figure. The pertinent figure is what is the rate of recycling when it comes to bottles and cans in the home.

Me personally it's above 99%, something which is replicated by all my family. Something which I can assume with some confidence is replicated in the vast majority homes, because we have been forced to do it for decades.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476627#Comment_121476627

Your boring. The system is coming, move on.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476627#Comment_121476627

There’s the government document with all stakeholders. It’s fairly conclusive in that a reverse vending machine system is the best way to achieve 90%.

quickly looking at figure 5.8 shows the benefit of the system.

The onus isn’t on other people to prove the 60% figure. It’s clearly the official figure. If you want to question it, do your own research on it and point out the holes in the methodology.

https://assets.gov.ie/89537/e5054d08-b398-4346-a69b-8f31839c19cd.pdf

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476606#Comment_121476606

Like yourself I currently recycle 100% of the plastic bottles and cans that come into the house.

I will continue to do so under the new scheme.

Where is the extra cost to me if other people don't return their plastic bottles and cans to collect their deposit and Return gets it ?

How can a rise in the deposit cost me more ?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476928#Comment_121476928

Like yourself I currently recycle 100% of the plastic bottles and cans that come into the house.

Indeed, a figure which is replicated in the vast majority of households with the same bins in the country.

So the question remains, why would you scrap a system that works perfectly with a near perfect compliance rate to try and cure a litter problem?

gipi

Here's a thought (could be completely off-beam, of course)

Are the current recycling services recycling 100% of the plastic bottles and cans that they collect from Joe Public? Or do some end up in an incinerator or landfill from time to time?

Will this new system ensure that what's intended for recycling actually gets there (wherever there is)?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476649#Comment_121476649

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476681#Comment_121476681

The onus isn’t on other people to prove the 60% figure. It’s clearly the official figure

The Leader is good, the Leader is great?

We can close the thread so.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477881#Comment_121477881

The short answers is no.

We export 70% of our packaging waste. We have no control over what happens.

You have stumbled across the actual problem though so you are completely on-beam.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470119#Comment_121470119

You are going to start burning rubbish?

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477882#Comment_121477882

Disprove it then. Go ahead. I'd really like to see you present facts. I've given you the entire argument behind the scheme and where the figures come from.

Disprove it or stop complaining.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478020#Comment_121478020

I have read the entire document. I am assuming you haven't.

The figures don't exist.

Padraig Mor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476620#Comment_121476620

Thinking typical of our Green 'betters' - "we think Scheme X will make us look good despite it being unworkable and loading unnecessary cost onto everyone, and will make zero impact to global pollution. We're doing it, **** you if you don't like it".

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478050#Comment_121478050

The executive summary has the figures....

Nobody on this thread should take you seriously. Why would I link a document I have not read? You're full of hot air.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476383#Comment_121476383

Yes, I think a logical and predictable outcome of this new policy is that bin/recycling charges will rise since they will lose the more valuable materials. That the public will react by opting only for rubbish collections and bringing bottles/ cans etc to new facilities. So a deal of material that currently goes to recycling will end up in the incinerator stream.

They'll have partially addressed a little problem and undermined the recycling schemes.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478117#Comment_121478117

It doesnt matter because once this shiny new scheme starts the most important kpi will be to ensure that recycling of the barcoded items exceeds target so we can puff out our green chests and walk tall among our EU peers

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478117#Comment_121478117

I can't speak for anywhere else but where I live it's either all 3 bins or no bins with the providers.

If the above happens, the government can update the law mandating green bin collections with black. It's a simple fix.

Personally, my black bin is usually pretty full. I recycle so it all fits in the bin. I will still recycle cardboard and other plastics as normal. It's second nature to do so.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477991#Comment_121477991

The majority of our waste is burned and land filled.

The vast majority of our plastic is.

I don't understand why people get so exercised when the individual does it. It's not ideal, but probably more efficient.

Just under 28 per cent of plastic packaging generated in Ireland was recycled in 2021, with the remainder being treated by incineration (70 per cent) and disposal (2 per cent).

It's almost like collection isn't the problem?

Is there anyone on this thread whose household does not have a near perfect rate of offering the recycling of bottles and cans?

Padraig Mor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478097#Comment_121478097

That document doesn't say what you think it does. To quote it:

"It should be noted that there was considerable variation in the estimates of the number/ weights of beverage containers placed on the market, so further work would be needed to assess this more definitively."

To put that in plain English: they have no idea how many of the relevant containers are actually put on the market, so any measure of current recycling percentage is - at best - a guesstimate. Note how they continually refer to the percentage (actually 55%, dunno where 60% is coming from) as an "estimate" - they don't know whether it's right or wrong, but sure they had to come out with some sort of figure!

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478362#Comment_121478362

60% comes from the schemes website.

I have not said what the document says. The original poster asked for how the figure was arrived at. I gave him a document which he claims to have read. There's plenty of evidence in the document to disprove the figure but he can't piece it together.

It's not even the most up to date document which has better estimates. I was exposing his bullshit and nothing else.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478390#Comment_121478390

I have read, it is aspirational flim flam based on incomplete, archaic data, guess work and surveys. It was also published in 2019, a lot has changed since 2019 in terms of consumption and behaviours.

But anyway your rate from your household is optimal, would that be fair a fair assumption, as in as near 100% as you can get?

What do you think is the main factor for you and me in achieving near perfection of offering bottles and cans for recycling?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476928#Comment_121476928

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477847#Comment_121477847

I guess the answer to your question is that we want to increase our recycling rate.

Providing a guaranteed stream of uncontaminated clean material will help to achieve that.

The litter is a side issue and as we haven't started yet I can't say for sure what effect the scheme will have. The plastic bag levy did reduce the amount of plastic bags littered.

Now any chance you would address my questions in the post ?

1

Where is the extra cost to me if other people don't return their plastic bottles and cans to collect their deposit and Return gets it ?

2

How can a rise in the deposit cost me more ?

TIA

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478439#Comment_121478439

Which dataset is incomplete? What data is archaic? Specifically in the document? Are surveys not a valid method to capture data?

It's not about me or you. It's about you calling the figure BS without supporting that statement.

Atlantic Dawn

Green issues are now like migration, nobody in opposition will open their mouth with sensible alternatives or call out ill thought out schemes for fear of being called a climate change denier or member of the far right if they question illegal migration.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478540#Comment_121478540

Absolutely spot on and unfortunately that lists grows longer on what seems like a daily basis at this stage. Its why many threads on here and other social media sites become a chore to read. Thou shall not disent

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478477#Comment_121478477

Because these machines will have a rejection rate.

The bottles and cans have to be returned in as near perfect condition as possible for the machine to grab it, spin and read the barcode.

Now I will try my best to devise a system to do that, but even by the best will in the world a certain percentage of cans and bottles will become damaged and rejected.

So my near perfect rate of recycling that I have at the moment will decrease, that actually annoys more than the loss of money incurred, which I am going to have work harder to get back anyway, because it is designed that way. Also there will be a further cost to be do this. My local supermarkets charge for parking.

The litter is a side issue

Well then you didn't listen to the couple of softball interviews I did this week. When it was put to that the majority of households were offering their bottles and cans up for recycling the conversation immediately pivoted to solving the litter problem.

So the pertinent question remains, why are we completely dismantling a recycling system that works to solve a litter problem that won't?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478539#Comment_121478539

If you could answer my question it would enlighten you. there is a point to it.

What percentage of cans and bottles does your household currently offer for recycling?