The new recycling system

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637609#Comment_121637609

What are you claiming i'm "making up"?? you keep avoiding all my questions everytime, despite trying to call others out for avoiding answering questions lol.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637637#Comment_121637637

yes i'm talking about the cans and the bottles. you're admitting here that its a money game/issue.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637638#Comment_121637638

The post in question contains your entirely made up, factually and legally impossible nonsense ideas about how re-turn is funded. Not a word of it is true.

You made the entire lot up based on extremely poor knowledge of the facts, filling the huge gaps in with nonsense

On this thread you've made up nonsense ideas about processes, organisational structures, funding, costs, the value of recycled materials and more. All this mixed in with intent to commit fraud while accusing something of being a scam because you simply don't understand it and have made everything about it up.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637581#Comment_121637581

The bin has to be scanned in connection with the container.

Would help if you actually read the link.

Scanning of both codes has to take place within 30 seconds to ensure people are at a bin and not simply scanning and dumping the container.

What trial are you claiming the 94% from?

A trial in Dublin carried out by the IWMA.

They actually have a rather comprehensive document on the proposed scheme, worth a read.

https://iwma.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/210429_501.181.8_IWMA-submission-on-DRS-Consultation_CW_Rev0-Final.pdf

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637661#Comment_121637661

It shows that they're at a bin. It does nothing else.

A 94% return rate on massively subsidised milk cartons with specialist collection does not meet any scientific basis to be considered a trial.

That is an attempt by bin companies to keep the aluminium stream in their hands, nothing else. It also has all of the problems that the batty magic scanning bin truck proposal on this thread has - it only works for the person who pays for a domestic recycling service. Which is a small part of the population.

So we've a non comparable trial that isn't accessible to most people. This doesn't prove what you want it to prove

More bad science here, just this time from the IWMA to try desperately to stop RVMs taking their aluminium away

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637620#Comment_121637620

if their stuff is contaminated

Contamination is a complete red herring.

Unless it is contaminated with uranium everything to a degree can be sorted and washed.

The reason we haven't being doing this is we didn't have the facility to do it at scale needed.

So we exported bales of plastic and bought back recycled pellets at a higher cost.

The facility who were given the exclusivity on the contract to collect this waste are currently building a massive 'washer' and 'sorter' costing 10s of millions on the back of receiving the contract.

If they have been given recycle targets, they have not been made public.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637680#Comment_121637680

It shows that they're at a bin. It does nothing else.

So after walking to a bin, scanning the can and the bin, they will then throw the can on the ground?

😐️

So we've a non comparable trial that isn't accessible to most people

Why wouldn't be accessible to most people?

Would help if you read the actual document, but that probably isn't going to happen is it?

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637649#Comment_121637649

As far as i knew it was government funded, google claims "The system is funded through producer fees for each product placed on the market" yet also says "management and operation of the Deposit Return Scheme does not cost the public any money at all" which is an outright lie. if government want recycling results numbers to hold up to EU its easy to mistakenly assume they funded the whole thing, or paid contractors via a new company to achieve that.

Where have i made up anything about costs? or the value of reycleables? and you still keep slandering me with that fraud accusation, despite myself replying 3 times to you claiming i have no intentions to commit any sort of fraud. i'm just trying to make a bit of bob from this scheme, stop hating on me. and yeah the scheme is a scam, it demands free help, holds our deposits hostage unless way obey, and offers us nothing in return. we break even at best. pure scam.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637682#Comment_121637682

exactly! THANKS!. all can be washed and cleaned, it's clearly a case of them deliberately choosing not to, and instead selling it to somewhere else overseas for them to do for a profit. recycling lies and scam. but atleast we're not being forced to pay a deposit on it this way.

This whole new rvm thing they want the recyclables cleaned already, and put directly into their hands. and force us to comply with this under the threat of losing our deposits if we don't. it's bullying tactics, and we only break even at best. Now reward for us.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637692#Comment_121637692

"management and operation of the Deposit Return Scheme does not cost the public any money at all"

Well that is a whopper TBH.

I do notice none of the evangelist's have attempted to explained that one.

The vast majority of this scheme will be paid for by the public.

Not only that the IWMA estimate there could be a 25m to 60m shortfall annually.

Who do you think will pay that?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637689#Comment_121637689

The trial scheme requires you to be the person paying for the recycling contract to get the money back. Just like the other mad proposal.

The entire thing is a proposal by a group desperate to stop RVMS by any means possible. It doesn't stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637709#Comment_121637709

Again where have i imagined the cost and value of materials? Nowhere have i stated any given cost for any materials. my whole schtick is "they should not be forcing us to help them for free, they should offer us some incentive like the previous RVM's did, instead of demanding free help and holding our deposits as randsome, we only break even at best." clear outright scam. no money to be made from this, for the public. We're being made to do them free favors, or else suffer losing out deposit. essentially this is also a tax for people who cannot leave their homes and who already recycle at home. Difference is these rvm lads want the recycleables put directly into their hands without even having to sort through other recycelables.

Just because i desire to find ways to actually profit from this scheme, you seem to have in for me. Why should you begrudge me from attempting to profit? why even care what someone else does? it does'nt affect you in the slightest, unless you're willing to donate free cans to me? idk your motive so i ask you.

i have no desire to be a scammer whatsoever, so stop slandering me

Also IMPORTANT to note: attempting to make "a bit of bob" from this scheme does not have to be based on theft or fraud, i'm sure there are other ways, and thats what i'm attempting to figure out. Give me some credit. i'll find a way! a legal and legitimate way.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637759#Comment_121637759

I told you where you imagined the cost and the value of materials

Fraud, like the many scam schemes you suggested you'd try, affects everyone.

If you didn't spend pages and pages posting fraudulent schemes you wouldn't be accused of proposing fraud. That's quite simple

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637749#Comment_121637749

No it doesn't.

Again you need to inform yourself about the scheme, I have provided the literature before you start making hilariously false declarations about it.

Then maybe we can debate the pros and cons, and come to an informed decision would this scheme be more suitable for the actual goal of the other scheme, 'on the go' trash collection, it certainly negates the dismantling of our current successes.

Technology is the way forward.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637783#Comment_121637783

Where does that document show how anyone other than the account holder can get the refund?

I'm not expecting an actual reply here, just a wall of deflection.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637772#Comment_121637772

if someone donates their cans to me, does that count as fraud? if i find a can on the ground, unredeemed, and i redeem the deposit via the rvm, does that count as fraud? what you're calling fraud is small minor things and laughable at best. a person is hardly gonna get arrested for depositing a tin can they found on the ground, infact they're clearing the enviroment and doing the system a favor.

it's like finding money on the ground and spending it is a crime. what ever happened to the ancient law of finders keepers losers weepers?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637793#Comment_121637793

I repeatedly said the only way you'd make any money was litter picking. That isn't the fraudulent or theft based schemes you repeatedly mentioned.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637792#Comment_121637792

By account holder do you mean download an app?

Do you see that as a major barrier?

Or are we back to the hilariously folly we can't use technology, technology can be hacked!!!!

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637793#Comment_121637793

if i find a can on the ground, unredeemed, and i redeem the deposit via the rvm, does that count as fraud? 

No that is baked into the scheme.

The best quote on here was and a I paraphrase 'it will be great pocket money for homeless people and children.'

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637803#Comment_121637803

You cant use the proposed scheme without having a domestic recycling contract in the first place; as they need that to link to the coded bins. The refund is put on to the contract holders waste bill - so only they can benefit.

I'm beginning to think you didn't read the document

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637743#Comment_121637743

They're got alot to explain, quite clearly the public is paying for it. its a win-win for re-turn. They either get our recycleables OR get our deposit, win-win for them. Public only break even at best. Takes the consumers money or their time. it really is'nt a fair trade-off whatsoever.

Some people are nearly defending the scheme with their life, you'd almost think the deposits are coming out of their own pocket or something lol.

Answering your question, the public will pay it for sure. i had assumed government had hired them too, but apparently thats wrong. Also had said earlier in this thread that re-turn wanted to get producers on board and make them pay, but that was shot down here also. despite google saying that.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637800#Comment_121637800

Cool, well they're the only ways i intend on making money with this, not the fraudulent theft based schemes that you are referring to. So can you stop calling me a theft/scammer now?

i'm innocent, i'm just looking to make a bit of money from this. not the theft or scammer things

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637832#Comment_121637832

Unfortunately you've already spent pages and pages proposing fraud and theft.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637811#Comment_121637811

You cant use the proposed scheme without having a domestic recycling contract in the first place

Of course you can, the scheme is not exclusive to domestic recycling.

Everyone is allowed download the app.

It's literally convenient for all.

Do you not think technology akin to this is the way forward for managing our waste and of course being more environmental?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637852#Comment_121637852

So yes, you didn't read the document, you just skimmed it for the bits you wanted to see. Bad science as always.

The refunds are given on the domestic waste bill. This is made exceptionally clear and you would have seen it if you'd read the document.

This is not the way forward. It's not even intended to be the way forward - it's a desperate attempt by bin companies to hold back.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637815#Comment_121637815

Public only break even at best

Cost neutral to the public on this is impossible.

Any costs incurred by producers or retailers will be passed on.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637832#Comment_121637832

I do see your earlier point about the public having to do this for free but when you see the retailer is getting 2.2 cents per item I don't really find it worth quibbling about. If I buy a can of soft drink or a bottle of water on the way to town I'm not more likely to hang on to it to earn a cent (presuming you are thinking a revenue share) over the refundable deposit. And if the scheme where to pay individuals we would ultimately be paying for it through higher prices first. In the same way we will be paying for the producers costs of the scheme.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637860#Comment_121637860

It's almost like the same technology can be used to capture on the go waste.

When this eventually does become somewhat main stream will you back on in 10 years telling everyone who might have a problem with it, that they are engaging in bad science.

Do you always have to wait for the Green Man to tell you what is acceptable or not?

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637843#Comment_121637843

Ok so to make this perfectly clear: you're saying you still insist on calling me a theft and fraudster, despite myself saying numerous times now that i have no desire to commit any sort of frauds or thefts? yes or no?

in that case you're prioritizing things you deem as theft/fraud that was said in older posts over what was said in newer posts, to fit a negative narrative to justify calling me a scammer/thief/fraud. Seems highly unfair tbh

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637898#Comment_121637898

This is never going to become mainstream as it's an unworkable mess.

If that mess of an unscientific trial is the best the entire industry can come up with, it has already reached the end of the road.