The new recycling system

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687418#Comment_121687418

thats actually incorrect entirely, if the waste management firms are all against the scheme entirely then it would be in the best interests to let the public know about it so they can object to it.

infact they could have even informed them about current recycling things, or how it may become a threat potentially leading to price increases of bins sometime down the line

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687418#Comment_121687418

They could easily have been mandated to assist with this were the desire there and surely if they were against the scheme it would have been in their interests to tell their customers about it......

The people this scheme effects the most are people who already recycle....surely a key audience to target with information on the public consultation initially and now on the rollout etc....

BoardsBottler

yes and also poltiicans or local TD's always let people know things happening and the outcome of possible potential things that may arise downt he line, to purseude them to vote a certain way, when those leaflets come in the door. why didnt any of them make us aware about the consultation/chance to object thing about this scheme? maybe they're all in on it???

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121686085#Comment_121686085

There is no shop near me to drop into, hence the pain in the ass returning cans/bottles will be.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687435#Comment_121687435

The "without telling them what to submit" is the issue here. Advertising a consultation needs to be neutral; getting an organisation entirely hostile to the outcome to provide the info will not be neutral.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687397#Comment_121687397

Lose the deposits , surely that would be theft from a legal standpoint.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687450#Comment_121687450

I mentioned this on my local villages Facebook group last week and hardly any of the 1500 members heard about it. Not all commented but enough did to gauge the lack of knowledge about it.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121686312#Comment_121686312

Why would I need to get another bus back into the village if the shop was close to me??

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687464#Comment_121687464

I await the experts to let you know!

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687464#Comment_121687464

No it wouldn't.

You have to return the can or plastic bottle to a shop that either has an RVM or operates a manual return system.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687464#Comment_121687464

i think he means forfeiting them, which is legal and consent/choice based. unlike this scheme which is being pushed on us.

government forcing their politics onto us once again! its all political based on all an EU recycle rates race contest where they want us to fight their battle. for free! at the cost of the public, they did the same with [deleted] and also with electric prices going up. we're paying for the governments political beliefs yet again basically. this time its via the green excuse

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687461#Comment_121687461

Which village do you live in exactly? Perhaps we can help you out?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687462#Comment_121687462

The people doing the consultation provides the info, the organisation just disseminiate it.

My bin company text or email me at least once a week. One of these text is: Please note consultation phase for X is happening now, see more information here........

In fairness, if the bin companies were so against it, they could have done that anyway, with their own messaging, probably a missed opportunity on their part, unless they off course thought the thing was a done deal.

I've been involved in this kind of stuff before and a lot of the time anything involving the words "Public consultation" is literally a box ticking exercise.

Surely anyone with half a brain would see that the vast majority of people who use a recycle bin currently wouldn't have been for this scheme in the first instance and the public consultation results would reflect that - what would have happened then?

jj880

Public consultation by the government in this country is laughable. A box ticking exercise. Doesn't happen in any meaningful way. Its like councils putting notices of their sewerage discharge licenses in a local newspaper with a readership of 7. They are old pros at it by now.

BoardsBottler

Yeah and its possible that any forum poster that keeps suggesting the whole "you had your chance in the consultation phase which not everyone knew about, you said nothing at the time, so deal with it, also your fault for not knowing lol" schtik is either doing it to conveniently dismiss/disregard everything we say against the scheme, or else it's possible that they're just trolling.

The scheme has alot to answer for. And i'm not sure why people are even defending the scheme, is it like the money is coming out of their pocket or something? i've been here commenting since page 30 or so of this thread, and still baffled by this unclear bias, despite numerous attempts at attempting to engage with anyone about it who is in favor of the scheme.

We've even successfully established that more people (here, and not here) would be against the scheme, primarily one the bases of being punished for choosing the recycle at home via this deposit/pseudo green tax. really i would like to genuinely know what gives, and how anyone can be in favor of the scheme currently how the way it is, and perfectly says its okay with a straight face. There's alot here that has gone unanswered.

greasepalm

The wheelie bin companies will loose out with the lack of drink cans going to get thrown in and recycled and getting paid which could be a fair chunk of change lost.

Never got any notification of anything only seen the adds for this new recycle .

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121685618#Comment_121685618

Who said anything about a barcode? I said a machine readable code. Typically this type of continuous inkjet printer will print a 2d code which is very forgiving of the low print resolution and can have built in redundancy.

And the comment about machines not being able to read a code off the bare metal of a can? That non multipack version of that can has a qr code on its side on bare metal for a competition. Clearly that is readable. Code scanners are no longer limited to linearly actuated lasers and black and white flat barcodes, we all have multi megapixel cameras in our pockets, imaging techniques have moved on.

Honestly, people don't have to keep coming up with problems for every solution.

There are lots of potential alternative solutions, but there seems to be an attitude that any criticism of this scheme is invalid and not to be tolerated, and any proposals of alternatives or improvements are 100% unworkable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121685560#Comment_121685560

Who said they were? In any case a continuous inkjet printer can do both. Etching lasers are also becoming very popular.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121685647#Comment_121685647

Because companies spending millions on a new recycling scheme would be ridiculous.

https://forecourtretailer.com/aldi-invest-e15m-in-deposit-return-scheme/

https://tescoireland.ie/tesco-ireland-invests-15-million-in-deposit-return-scheme-drs/

https://m.independent.ie/business/supervalu-and-centra-invest-28m-in-reverse-vending-machines-ahead-of-deposit-return-scheme-launch/a1497006130.html

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687842#Comment_121687842

Moving to a non barcode format for ID would make import of products impossible.

People don't need to keep coming up with ridiculously complicated, over the top, questionably implementable technical ideas to "solve" realistically non existent problems and yet this thread is full of them. Such as laser etching cans.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687846#Comment_121687846

gg well played

some of the pro-return scheme posters had even said there was no investors lol. the links posted prove them wrong

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687851#Comment_121687851

I didn't say this was a replacement for the standard style barcode, it could be in addition to, so crushed cans could be accepted too.

I'm sorry now how is a suggestion to slightly change how beverages are labelled so damaged cans can be accepted and improve recycling rates ridiculously complicated, over the top, and questionably implementable, when the idea of getting the retail industry to effectively setup a new quango, spend hundreds of millions of Euro to build physical infrastructure and import and run complex machinery with many moving parts in every large shop in the country, create a new collection company with dedicated vehicles, staffing and many thousands of truck rolls per year, require manufacturers to employ country specific labelling for their product to be sold here, and force a behavioural change in every member of society all just to move the point of collection of a small portion of household recycling from one point to another (and maybe improve overall rates, except we don't know what the baseline is), is accepted without question. It makes me feel some of the arguments in support of the scheme aren't being made in good faith.

TheChizler

This whole idea of getting recycling rates up to 90% to help the environment kind of misses the point anyway and is harmful at worst, in a similar way to how recent plans to get 1 million electric cars on the roads on the surface sounds like a good thing but then you realize, hold on, all that means is that we're going to have close to a million extra cars on the road.

People feel good about Recycling, but we forget about the other two Rs, Reduce and Reuse, in that order. It allows people to absolve themselves of their consumerist guilt, like a modern day Jesus. Getting recycling rates up sounds good, but not if it means we're buying more goods overall complete with packaging. Imagine we get to 90% in 10 20 years, great. In the meantime we're consuming some multiple of what we are now and in absolute terms more containers and packaging are going to landfill and incineration than ever before.

And that's before we get into how effective recycling actually is. Very few plastics can be recycled with any sort of quality remaining, something about polymer chains deteriorating, so really all they're good for are plant pots, fences, and garden chairs. Fantastic. We'll have an endless supply. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not aware of any food grade products made with a high percentage of recycled plastic. And that's before you get into the environmental cost of the recycling process. Cans are ok, ish, still there is a non-zero emissions cost. The other most recyclable material, glass, didn't get a look in.

We hear about this circular economy and green supporting technology and how they're going to save the planet. No. F*** off. That's greenwashing. The only thing that's going to benefit from that is maybe the actual economy, but certainly the select companies supplying the technology.

The only thing that's going to benefit the environment is a reduction in consumption, which is never going to happen until sh*t hits the fan and suddenly there's nothing left to consume, or trying to make second use of what has already been produced. Neither of which are going to be popular with suppliers so governments have to step in and force a change. This scheme is all for supporting this continuous consumption with clear benefits for the big players (Aldi Tesco and Musgraves didn't spend €60m for the good of the planet), and there may be a bit of effort at that all sin forgiving third R "if commercially viable".

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687801#Comment_121687801

I think a few of those so vehemently supporting the scheme are in that industry or related in some way by previous posts I think but I stand to be corrected.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121685764#Comment_121685764

I agree with you there but that would only be discovered after they were scattered across the street.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121685786#Comment_121685786

I don’t think this works for carbonated drinks; the bottom indent is designed to stop the can bulging and then being incapable of standing up.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687924#Comment_121687924

Absolutely agree with this and your previous post. This scheme is simply a by product of the juggernaut bureaucracy that is the EU. Some couple of bright sparks have decided that, above all else, MS being able to report a collection rate of 90% of PET bottles is an essential metric to prove an environmentally virtuous block so all MS will implement without question provably to the detriment of other more effective means to reduce the environmental impact of packaging. As always though what gets measured gets done and to hell with everything else

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687846#Comment_121687846

Those shops get all their money back via the handling fee.

15 mil is tiny compared to the cost of implementing what you're suggesting.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687655#Comment_121687655

Down by Loughshinney harbour

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687851#Comment_121687851

It's interesting that you'd say this.

This whole scheme is a ridiculously complicated, over the top, questionable implementable technical ideas to "solve" realistically non existent problems or at worst a problem that isn't as complex as some would like us to think.

The problem is simple, we currently cannot "prove" or display how many bottles or cans are collected versus what are sold. Thats the problem that this "solution" claims to solve - without any attempts to tweak the existing systems in place.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687165#Comment_121687165

My main issue with the scheme is the scale of the exemptions and lack of manual returns, which would not have been readily apparent to an ordinary citizen at the outset of the consultation.

Didn't the scale of the exemption from participating in the scale, and avoiding manual returns only come in because of hard lobbying by retail groups as part of the consultation?

Certain groups have the ear of government, or are close to it - and certain don't.

This is non-trivial and to turn that around and say you can't really gripe about the result doesn't really engage with the reality of how the deck is stacked against ordinary citizens in such consultations. Especially a scheme which you yourself have said "was going ahead regardless".

This is very different to the timetable situation you mentioned where there are less competing lobbies, and where the change to a timetable the impact is readily apparent to existing end users.