2024 F1 General Discussion Thread

Longing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443473#Comment_122443473

Agree. Just saw this absolute mind-boggling he is being kept on.

Points from the last 8 races.

Max Verstappen - 141
Oscar Piastri - 126
Lewis Hamilton - 123
Lando Norris - 116
Charles Leclerc - 79
Carlos Sainz - 79
George Russell - 79
Sergio Perez - 28

I wonder if there was a Max 2 in the RB team would they be so hesitant. Were does this leave their junior programme. Have they got the wrong drivers in the RB team. I would say yes.

dulpit

I also have been wondering if Max has anything to say about this? In one sense - he's not being challenged, the team is his entirely, his driver's championship looks like it will be secure. But on the other hand he has no support at the front and the team championship (and apparently £1,000s of bonuses each for all of the staff in Red Bull) are on the line.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443565#Comment_122443565

Gwan Oscar…

Genuine championship contender next season if his form (and McLaren's) continues. He seems a cooler head than Lando too, and knows how to start a race…

Longing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443605#Comment_122443605

There is no dought one of the two Mclaren's drivers will win the championship next year. The upward curve of that team this year reminds me of '91 when Williams started to challenge the mighty McLaren's. I personally think Max is in the third best car over the last four races. It's a downward trend. I still think he will win the Championship, but the Constructors is gone since they give Perez their full backing yesterday. Just shows how f*+ked up internally that team is at the minute.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443644#Comment_122443644

Putting a new driver in the car is tricky. They'd have to learn the car and would make some mistakes. Even a better driver might not outscore Perez if they jump in the car mid-season.

Plus, as someone pointed out, there's the issue of Perez's money. Might be very expensive to get rid of him for little return

muckwarrior

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122442040#Comment_122442040

McLaren's problem, and Red Bull's saving grace, is that Merc have recently made a resurgence. Mercedes are too far behind to realistically challenge for the title, but they could take enough points from McLaren to prevent them winning it.

thefa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443605#Comment_122443605

I was actually thinking about this last night after watching a video about Norris v Piastri. What if, and a big what if, this turns out to be the best opportunity Norris ever has at a title?

I don’t like to put too much recency bias on things though and think Lando still currently has the edge on Piastri overall. Plus some of the experiences of this season should help him develop. It’s just scary how quickly Piastri is coming along and he has amazing composure.

Things change quickly though. Some of the comments made 2/3 months ago on drivers and cars have turned massively. Been a real tipsy turvy season and it’s hard to even say what the outlook for 2025 is.

Busman Paddy Lasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443605#Comment_122443605

I fancy his driving style but he's fallen off the track and missed his pit mark once or twice this year. His wide lines and the speed he carries wide is class, I hope his management coach him to not do that to Lewis or Max they'll put him in the dirt.

Jacovs

McLaren caught up another 9 points to RedBull, gap down to 42 points.

Piastri moves up 1 place, Sainz down 1 place.

Piastri only 10 points behind LeClerc now for 3rd place battle. LeClerc only 22 points behind Norris in second.

Sainz and Hamilton not far behind.

10 races left…

Harika

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443565#Comment_122443565

Another take on this table is that you might assume as Red Bull is on the backfoot, the driver championship heats up. But in reality Max extends his advantage as the hunters take the points away from themselves.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443807#Comment_122443807

True enough. On the other hand Mclaren will see the goal to get ahead and hope Mercedes can get between them and Max so they take points off him. It's a long shot, but it's the best outcome they have to work towards.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443234#Comment_122443234

I've been saying this for ages. It's not like Perez has suddenly forgotten how to drive and he's always been a great driver at multiple different teams. Just to put it in laptime context, the previous two drivers in that seat were 0.592s and 0.625s slower than Verstappen on average in qualifying. Perez has been 0.520s slower on average (as of stats collated on July 3rd so not counting the last couple of races) and I'd argue Max himself has gotten better with each passing year as he is 26 years old now and at his peak, making Checo's job all the more difficult compared to the guys he replaced.

So on average Perez has been better than other drivers they've put in that seat and you have to go back to when Verstappen was still a teenager learning the ropes to find the last time a driver was closer. What's different between now and previous seasons is that the field is closer than ever and half a second can mean a dozen grid spots whereas in the past the second driver at a top team, someone like Bottas for example, could be half a second off and still be 2nd on the grid.

Meanwhile it's obvious that the development time handicap Red Bull are facing has massively hindered their development. They've been well off the pace of McLaren for all but the first few races of the season, they've been behind Mercedes since Merc's upgrade package at Canada, and their pace relative to Ferrari has ebbed and flowed with different tracks (though Ferrari themselves have been on the back foot for the last while) and really it's Max that's been carrying the team. Perez is generally better in the race than in qualifying and is usually there or there abouts fighting for 6th or 7th come the chequered flag which is about as good as the Red Bull is right now.

I don't think there is any other driver available who they could drop in and would do much better, while they could potentially do worse, they would certainly bring less money, and they could possibly upset the relationships in the team. They've made it clear a few times that they see Norris as a target but he instead chose to tie his future to McLaren which seemed crazy at the time but now looks like it was the right choice. They didn't go for Sainz for whatever reason and outside of that there is maybe Leclerc or Piastri, Alonso is too old now, I just don't see anyone else on the grid who you could say would be a certain improvement. And all of those drivers mentioned have existing contracts in place. It would be a very big gamble to drop in someone unproven like Lawson or someone who's proven they no longer have what it takes like Ricciardo.

rock22

The Red Bull car, on mediums, seemed difficult to drive for both Verstappen and Perez. No doubt the team have a lot more data to analyse how Perez is really doing. he did seem better on the hard tyres.

Gamb!t

I wonder where Hamilton would have finished this year had Merc sorted itself out at the season?

As good a driver as he is I cant see him getting that elusive 8th title with Ferrari.

muckwarrior

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122444855#Comment_122444855

If I were forced to put money on who of the current grid would be the first 8 time world champion, then I'd choose Max.

Joeface

this feels like the start of silly season

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/new-usa-f1-project-revealed-involving-former-alpine-boss-szafnauer/10640481/

MadYaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443727#Comment_122443727

Danny Ric is probably the safest option but he hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire in the sister team. 10 races to go, if they sub someone else in now it'll take them a few races to get up to speed at least so maybe they're thinking what's the point, just stick with Perez until the end of the season and then reassess.

flazio

There is one thing to note. Back in Imola it was announced that Perez had a new multi year deal. As of yesterday, that's down to the rest of this year.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122445464#Comment_122445464

Presumably there were performance clauses in the contract which he hasn't met.

Burkie1203

SM RUMOURS liberty media told Red Bull not to drop checo due to loss of revenue in Mexico GP

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122445942#Comment_122445942

Fu_ck Liberty Media. That's not Red Bulls fault if that were to happen.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122445942#Comment_122445942

No idea if there's any truth to that, but what I'd worry about is the quid pro quo.

If Liberty owe Red Bull a favour now, what favour would Red Bull call in?

That's where F1 goes wrong. Making business deals that mess up the sporting part of F1. Deals like Ferrari creaming money off the pot before it's divvied up is an example. Totally unsporting.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVYMFKUUJa4

This is a pretty good overview of it all.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122442055#Comment_122442055

From bbc report

.

Vowles has been trying to modernise the team and this has put unexpected strains on them. He said his attempts to update the team's construction processes had led to the car still being overweight.

Vowles, who said he first approached Sainz at the final race of last season, said: "From the beginning I gave him warts-and-all 'here's what's going to happen'.

"We are going to go backwards. Here's why. Here's what we're investing in. Here's what's coming. Here's why I'm excited by this project, and it's your choice if you want to be a part it.

"But I know we will have success in the future and it will cost us in the short term and I am confident that honesty and transparency has paid off.

"It was worse than I expected it to be in that there was more weight on the car, but the aerodynamic performance of the car is in a reasonable place. We just have to shed that weight off it and we can start fighting at the front."

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122445942#Comment_122445942

Rubbish surely?

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122447187#Comment_122447187

I wouldnt be surprised if it's true

Few other murmurs that Max left with Ric on Sunday with both under the impression they were team mates at Zaandvoort

bennyx_o

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122447380#Comment_122447380

They left Spa together anyway

https://www.instagram.com/p/C9-YOhvoXNR/

PsychoPete

We'll see how long this will last

https://twitter.com/AlpineF1Team/status/1818579955996889093?t=_uZaf1bnAgXBLzD6Ek3eEw&s=19

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122447899#Comment_122447899

Who's Helicopter is that I wonder. Is it a Red Bull one or do one of them own it?

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122446862#Comment_122446862

It's still entirely unproven though. Every single team has plans to improve and do better in future, it's a very easy thing to say that they're laying the groundwork to do better next season. Alpine have been saying that every year for the last decade.

So far we've seen Williams take two steps back since Vowles joined while promising the steps forward are coming, but those steps forward haven't actually happened yet and there is no guarantee they will.