Have things gone wrong, and if so can they be put right?

Sunny Disposition

Was watching a BBC programme last night about mental health. Mental problems are now the biggest reason for non participation of younger people in the work force. It’s likely to be the same here.

There seems to be a huge amount of discontent now. I wonder why, is it the decline of religion, too much time on the internet, increase in drug culture.

In politics I would never believe SF could reach the level it has, 25 years ago everyone despised the IRA and their campaign. We never thought the Uk would leave the EU or an idiot like Trump could become President.

I think it’s much harder for young people to be optimistic these days and I wonder are there any ways it can be turned around. I think smart phones and social media have been a huge problem and cutting all that out would help, but there seems to be v few moves around that.

Cluedo Monopoly

Ryan Tubridy is a big loss too.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058326854/have-things-gone-wrong-and-if-so-can-they-be-put-right

The decline if religion? If anything, that would improve mental health.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493738#Comment_121493738

Couldn't agree more.

You need only look at the world and how it's structured to see the problem. Like, there are no rewards any more for working hard and we've reached the point where AI is poised to eliminate vast swathes of jobs. Once robotics catches up, we're going to have a vast useless class of perfectly intelligent and normal people with no economic purpose. A lot of people take pride in their work so to have no work is just going to set up social problems in the years to come.

We've also seen the concentration of opportunities as well leading to some areas being left behind. When I was growing up, there was always some kind of work in my local small town. People only really left to do white collar work or to make money. Now, it's stay and draw the dole or work and hand over most of your income in rent and utilities. I'm living in London but I'm interviewing for a post in the Netherlands and it's exactly the same: a bloc of four cities called the Randstad (Amsterdam, Utrecht, Den Haag & Rotterdam) dominates the economy accompanied by sky high rents, extortionate housing prices and deprivation in other areas.

I don't think drugs have much to do with anything in the OP. Social media firms actively curate hate and discord via their algorithms and this has helped polarise things. I think the biggest problem is inequality. When people at the bottom can barely afford to exist, it reflects poorly on society and breeds unrest. This goes double for places with antiquated voting systems in the UK and the USA where power is concentrated between a miniscule number of people.

Religion had a benefit in that it offered people something more than the material but various organizations were more than happy to wet their beaks and commit atrocities in the process. I think that we're better off without it on the whole but we should really have replaced it and not just removed it.

I find that I am a lot happier with moderate consumption of the internet and social media. Life's just better when you put the phone down now and then and just go for a walk, do some exercise, or just read a book. That's not going to fix much but it's a start.

As for putting things right, we need to start regulating for AI and holding social media firms accountable. They're not neutral parties, they're political actors. They also need to pay their taxes, as do Amazon and Google. AI has the potential to solve vast swathes of problems by turbocharging research but it also threatens global feudalism or even annihilation if left unchecked.

Only time will tell.

20silkcut

Just like the monopoly board game the economy concentrates all the resources into the hands of fewer and fewer people and into more concentrated regions as time goes forwards. Eventually the losers just catch the board and flip it up in the air. We are probably approaching that stage fairly soon. Then it will all start again and the process repeated until infinity.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493738#Comment_121493738

100%. Religion and the power of those wielding it does infinitely more harm than good.

kippy

This might be an opposite view but whatever about religion itself, some of the things that go with religion were actually very good for people. I'd be specifically talking about mass going, the church being a central point for meeting for various community gatherings. People felt 'part of something', had something in common and generally knew more people as a result. Generally good things for mental health. There are other sides to religion that genuinely are good for ones mental health when not taken to an extreme. I am not saying religion has it's serious negatives either btw.

Nowadays despite more communications tools than ever a lot of younger people tend to live in a more individual world. Stuck in a phone or device for long periods interacting with god knows what, rarely talking to people nd generally, ironically enough not caring about the work around them, growing apathetic, lazy and I would also say very unrealistic about expectations of the world, probably caused by the content they engage with.

It's also very 'in' to have 'something wrong with you'.

That said, there are lots of very good younger people out there but there are a growing number in the categories above. I come across it every day, people with diagnosed mental health issues who may never work.

L.Ball

I think the shrinking influence of religion in this country can definitely be correlated with how much the quality of life has improved for people generally in this country.

buried

The shrinking of "Religion" my f**king arse. There is a new "religion" now at play in this regime. The "religion" of the neo-liberal political agenda. It bases everything down to how much money can be generated for the minority, the job hopping politicians, the corporations, the multi-nationals, the banks, the filth. That's the new f**king religion now. And if you say anything against it you get just as lambasted as the few brave people who spoke out against the last foreign Abrahamic religion that festooned their claws up in here. But the current neo-liberal religion has the perfect cure for that craic which the Vatican could never manage, you fight against their doctrine, they'll set up state sanctioned laws to literally criminalize you for it.

And make no mistake, this current horse$hit is a religion. Watch now what happens after I type this.

tikka16751

I’m enjoying the winter activities

Geuze

Lifes ups and downs are being over-medicalised as mental health illnesses.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058326854/have-things-gone-wrong-and-if-so-can-they-be-put-right

Everyone despised the IRA?

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496917#Comment_121496917

Probably. But wait until everybody gets a small bit older and physical health illnesses inevitably take hold of everyone who thinks the current regime is doing a great job. Then they will know all about it, because the current regime, that we are all paying for, literally does not give a tuppenny f**k.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058326854/have-things-gone-wrong-and-if-so-can-they-be-put-right

Young people are coddled within an inch of their life’s now and told that if they’re sad it’s depression etc

Sadness is something everyone goes through, however now it’s medicalised and profitable and fashionable.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496889#Comment_121496889

100%

Oranage2

Social media is a cesspool, every second celeb is telling you that you should be rich with a six pack and banging 10s all day long before you're 25 or else you're a failure.

We're also Bombasted with misery porn. Just terrible atrocities on the news daily. We've Ukraine and Palestine recently and media coverage of wars to this extent is a recent phenomenon.

Finally we're more aware of mental health which is great but young people use it at every chance.

Things will change. I don't know when but eventually things will get better.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496026#Comment_121496026

Yeah that all makes a lot of sense

Organised religion gave people a sense of belonging and community and gave people many opportunities to interact with the community around them and now a lot of that has fizzled out.

But with social media now it can give people a very false sense of community and belonging.

Donald Trump

The issues in the younger generation will mean that you will not be able to find a single stable genius in the future.

Sunny Disposition

I wouldn’t be religious, but I do think a community thing has been lost with the collapse in mass going. It put people of all ages in the same place. Maybe it’s still for the best though.

Unfortunately looking at the internet is how a lot of people spend their time now. Years ago people used to be urged to watch less TV. I think people badly need to cut social media consumption now, we all know it’s a problem. mental health problems are rife now and there’s no doubt a lot of consumption of social media makes people less relaxed.

Padre_Pio

Honestly, and I've said it before, social media and news media are to blame. People are constantly bombarded with negativity and feelings of inadequacy. Ad men and social engineering experts have tapped into our negative emotions and are using them to extract money from us.

Pop onto the Journal.ie at 12.28pm today and here's the top headlines:

1 Garda operation ‘under review’ as 62 migrant children missing after disappearing from State care

2 Varadkar advises people with accommodation not to come to Ireland seeking international protection

3 Yemeni rebels strike transport ship in Red Sea as bombardment of Gaza continues amid internet blackout

4 Taoiseach expresses disappointment as Hungary's Viktor Orban blocks EU aid package for Ukraine

5 Prince Harry awarded £140,600 in phone hacking claim against Mirror Group

6 Two men arrested in connection with crash that killed two teenagers before debs ball in July

The only positive item on their website is a sponsored ad by Glenveagh homes.

Every news outlet is identical, every hourly bullet is war, famine, pestilence and death.

And NONE OF IT affects the vast vast majority of people in Ireland.

There's so much positivity in the world that is not publicised. So many events and gathering and occasions that are drowned out in misery.

I was in Youghal in the days leading up to the Iron Man. Great atmosphere in the town and huge numbers of people gathering. None of this made the papers.

But a tragic accident and all of a sudden you can't move for journalists.

Flaneur OBrien

I agree that Catholicism in Ireland had one useful function, the gathering of community regularly for mass.

But that one useful function, is massively overwhelmed by the abuses and killings which were covered up and occurred over the years.

The internet is a force for good and bad. A small example of the good is that it has allowed people to access information about mental health and treatments.

I hate one argument that @kippy is making,

It's also very 'in' to have 'something wrong with you'.

It's also to do with availability of information. How many people did we know growing up that were referred to as "touched" but now we know they were probably neuro-diverse, possibly autistic.

I have ADHD, one of the most 'in' conditions to have. But it's 'in' because more people have access to diagnosis, than there ever were before. Less than 10 years ago, there was one, solo psychiatrist who specialised in ADHD in Ireland. So, of course more people are getting diagnosed.

I'm reading a book where they talk about labels being applied to people. Good piece here:

Labels are not a bad thing when they serve a purpose. If you think about clothing for example, a label on a garment is a care instruction. So long as someone knows how to read a label, and knows what the different icons on a laundry label mean, they can make sure they don't ruin clothes by putting them in a washer on a wrong cycle.

Knowing that a child is a handwash only, don't tumble dry, delicate mohair jumper, who you will destroy if you throw them in the washer with your bedsheets on a hotwash is useful information.

As to whether it can be turned around, I don't know. I don't see how, tbh. The cost of living is too high, there's few outlets for energy (nightclubs) rents are too high, we may be killing our planet, and very few can afford a house to live in long term.

Maybe capitalism will die and we'll get over it as a species, but everyone here will be long in the ground before that's allowed to happen.

Padre_Pio

@Flaneur OBrien "As to whether it can be turned around, I don't know. I don't see how, tbh. The cost of living is too high, there's few outlets for energy (nightclubs) rents are too high, we may be killing our planet, and very few can afford a house to live in long term."

When you look at statistics, most of these don't apply to the vast majority of people in Ireland who are doing just fine, and most of these are only problems that have come (and some gone) in the past 5 years.

Now, I don't want to dismiss the issues that people have, but IMO, people are being affected by issues that should not affect them in real terms.

I firmly believe most people are suffering from the amplification of problems from news media.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498837#Comment_121498837

You're entitled to believe whatever you want.

The cost of living is too high. I work in theatre, and I used to rely on bargains for props, but a lot of the shops I would use regularly are gone. A cup of coffee is around €3.50 now and a pint is what, €6.50/7.00? That is just way too much.

There's a couple of niteclubs in Dublin, but nothing near what we had 10-25 years ago. I don't believe there's a single niteclub in Galway at the moment? (I could be wrong there)

No one can argue rent prices are insane.

The median price for a house in Ireland is €320k, (source: https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-rppi/residentialpropertypriceindexaugust2023/)

The average annual earnings in Ireland is €40,283. (Source: https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-syi/statisticalyearbookofireland2020/econ/earnings/)

The rules in borrowing for a mortgage mean you shouldn't be able to borrow more than 3.5 times your annual wage. It stands to reason that the average house price, should therefore be €140,000 or the average wage should be €91,428.

I firmly believe some people are suffering from an "I'm alright Jack, so theres nothing to worry about" attitude which doesn't help anykne in need at all.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498958#Comment_121498958

"I firmly believe some people are suffering from an "I'm alright Jack, so theres nothing to worry about" attitude which doesn't help anykne in need at all."

Everything you said is correct for Ireland in 2023.

It's not correct for Ireland 2021

Might be very different in Ireland 2025

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498721#Comment_121498721

Can't remember where I heard this yesterday but the news should change its name to "whats wrong"

"And now Anne Doyle with what's wrong"

recyclops

I sometimes refer to mental health is the modern day back pain when it comes to discussing it in work ,its something that cant be seen and cant really be refuted.

we all know someone who at the slightest ask has an issue with their back yet advise "sure no point going to the doctor to get help as nothing that can be done", now whilst there is a whiff of truth in that anyone who severely suffers from either mental health or back issues will be the first person to get help and rarely use it as an excuse.

The issue with both is you can never really question it

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499088#Comment_121499088

I was waiting 2 years for an ADHD assessment. And that was going private. The fact is that we don't have enough mental health professionals in this country.

Approximately 10% of the population suffers from depression. It's good that that is being recognised.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498769#Comment_121498769

I appreciate the post and again, I appreciate some of what I am saying annoys people. Perhaps I need to re-word or change what I am trying to say as it is difficult.

The points you've made are of course true in that we have more information available to us to diagnose various issues that we did not or could not diagnose in people years ago - and I appreciate this is a sweeping statement, there is a cohort of people out there who, because of social media, their environment etc, end up "feeling sorry for themselves" and need to get some "excuse" for their state. Again, I am aware that this isn't everyone but those numbers, in my opinion are increasing. Can I say that a lot of the "treatments" for some of these mental issues, end up making people more docile, less interest and more exhausted than they would normally be - which all adds to the problems - again not everyone and not every issue.

It is ironic that with all of this additional information and the ability to treat (allegedly) these various issues in people that we are saying that mental health problems are the biggest barrier for young people into the work environment.

recyclops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499153#Comment_121499153

Absolutely agree and like you said it was recognised and you went and got the assessment, hopefully it was beneficial.

I know similar who identified they had a problem who went and seeked assistance in recognising the problem that was effecting their working life and looked for supports to allow them continue being productive and return to a working environment.

I have often suggested CBT to people as its a wonderful way of recognising how and why you sometimes feel as you do and building up methods to help you get through these things.

L.Ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496931#Comment_121496931

Everyone with a brain.

Mrs OBumble

I believe it's far deeper: serious damage is being done to children's mental health before they turn three, by their lack of consistent day-time interaction and relationships with long-term caregivers.

Research in the 60s and 70s showed that high-quality institutional early childhood care (creches etc) was "no worse" than home based care.

But many institutions don't offer high quality care: the poorly-paid adults who work there have to be breathing and able to pass garda vetting, little more. Many have only the barest qualifications (a Level 5 is worth nothing). The management is often dysfunctional.

And that research was carried out before current understandings of early childhood attachment. I have a hunch that if the research were proposed today, it would be declined ethical approval because of that alone.

Can it be fixed? Not likely for the affected people. It could be turned around for future generations, if society wanted to invest in early-childhood. Paint me sceptical (unless AI really does deliver).

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121501975#Comment_121501975

I must say you are completely ignorant as to the level 5 demands of the childcare certificate.

I know as my wife just recently completed hers. It was hours and hours of research, essay writing and activity planning, as well as 120 hours of unpaid work experience in our local childcare facility.

You are right on one thing though. It's ridiculously poorly paid for the amount of work and education involved. Maybe that's why you think they just need to be only breathing? The workers would probably earn more working for Aldi. You should save your scandalised face for that.

francois

Social media companies need to lose their free pass and start to be regulated like the mainstream media. Threats involving rape and murder are allowed to proliferate, this wouldn't be tolerated in the press or on TV

Sunny Disposition

That’s a good point. The Irish Times wouldn’t be allowed put up videos of Travellers threatening each other for example, but Facebook can, with seemingly no consequences.

maninasia

This stuff was always present , the individuals were described as 'shook', ''cracked' , 'bad case of the nerves'and more. It is just getting more recognition now.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121502088#Comment_121502088

Of course.

I remember years ago saying this. These companies are too powerful and they are objectively not neutral. The thing is, rightists are only complaining because they're not right wing echo chambers. I remember almost being called a communist for advocating regulation.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498721#Comment_121498721

There's nothing new about the media prioritising misery. Good news simply doesn't sell apart from the occasional fluffy piece about a hero paramedic delivering a baby by the side of the Red Cow junction or something similar. I can't help wondering if the OP is over egging the pudding a bit. The world has always gone through cycles of war and depression followed by recovery. Compared to 100 years ago you could argue that we're living in the best era ever. Lest we forget, from 1900 to 1945 we had two world wars, which included the worst genocide in human history, and the Spanish Flu pandemic which killed millions. That was followed by the Cold War and the constant threat of the entire planet being destroyed by our own hands. Yet we're still here, many people doing well, many not so much. Same as it ever was.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121502492#Comment_121502492

I agree, theres plenty of good in the world.

I've turned off new sites and heavily filtered out any political and economic content. It doesn't affect me, and there's no point getting sucked into doom scrolling.

The worst thing in most peoples lives is the phrase "that's shocking expensive".

Again, I don't want to dismiss individual struggles that people are going through, but maybe we all need a little more perspective on how good we have it.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121502518#Comment_121502518

I hate to repeat myself, but a lot of people DON'T have it so good, yet you keep suggesting it's only a few individuals going through "struggles".

I mean this with respect, you may need to widen your social circle to see it.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499153#Comment_121499153

This is the part that is the really big issue. Imho, Ireland has a long history of mental health issues but they largely went ignored. Now that we're acknowledging them the services simply aren't there on the public system. I needed a psychiatrist last year, it was faster to go private and thankfully I could afford it. Not everyone can afford it is the thing.

On top of that, we've got neurodiverse individuals that are realising in later life. It's either a long waiting list or going private. Autism diagnoses in adult life require you to go private as well. And dealing with this stuff and trying to understand yourself can have a huge impact on mental health tbh.

randd1

I think society is fu€ked.

We're too greedy, to enslaved to stuff that doesn't matter, like celebrity without talent. Too molly-coddled and sensitive, yet quick to demonise. Intelligent but no real smarts.

There's no real plan for society. No aim, no goal, just keep going until the next election. We achieved what we wanted, peace, prosperity, freedom. And we don't know what to do with it, and because of that we have conflict, debt and entrapment.

We need a collective philosophy, a goal to work towards. What it is I don't know, but I can see my kids and I worry are they going to enjoy their life, are they going to live in an aimless society?

Ideally, for me anyway, I'd like to see a society where everyone is guaranteed a roof, food and have daily interaction with their neighbours and friend, where time in work is reduced to no more than 30 hours a week and we pursue a healthier, more active and happier lifestyle, and opulence and apathy are seen as disgusting wastes of energy and resources, and the accumulation of wealth is banned.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

There seems to be a huge amount of discontent now. I wonder why, is it the decline of religion, too much time on the internet, increase in drug culture.

Mostly the middle one. We're better off without religion and people have always done drugs.

My take on it is a loss of faith in democracy and increase in devisiveness. I think most people are seeing more and more corruption and disconnection from the government as they have to deal with the issues of homelessness, cost of living increases while politicians are perceived as only pretending to give a ****, while everything seems to be strong-left woke and strong-right poplism and faux-patriotism.

RurtBeynolds

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121502079#Comment_121502079

"hours and hours" of research and writing essays does not really help your case here. That sounds quite minimal, and is why it's only a Level 5 certificate.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512834#Comment_121512834

Did you leave out the 160 hours of unpaid work experience on purpose?

The claim was that all they had to do was breathe, which is hugely insulting.