Prime Time Gender Issues (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

nachouser

Numbers are numbers, that's why I shared them. I've attached the latest Annual report that I could find. Like anything else in life these days, it's about reality vs online sh*te and fear mongering. In Ireland, there aren't people officially changing their gender so they can go harass women in bathrooms or changing rooms or wherever. It's just not happening. Similarly, there aren't people officially changing their gender so they can excel in women-only sports. Around the rest of the world, yeah, maybe. But it's not a thing here. Like, I'd never pop into the ladies to relieve myself because I'd be worried there would be someone in there that I'd upset and, moreso, I wouldn't want to be known as someone who'd be in the ladies in the first place. The only lads who would do that sort of thing would do it anyway, regardless of whether or not they have a cert claiming they were actually a woman. Which isn't happening in Ireland or it'd be all over the news.

262827_9a1b18eb-cf70-466e-b738-3e2af4202c60.pdf

Enduro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515624#Comment_121515624

Whether they excel or not is irrelevant to whether it is fair for them to compete in a particular category. If they don't meet the eligibility criteria to compete in a particular category then it would be unfair to ALL the other athletes in that category if they do compete in that category.

So, specifically, it would be unfair to ALL female sex athletes if a male sex athlete competed in the female sex category in a sport. Whether that male sex athlete excels or not is irrelevant. It is still unfair. The number of male sex athletes competing is also irrelevant. One is one too many. Rules should be enforced for the benefit of all athletes who don't break the rules. The rules should apply to everyone univerally.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515624#Comment_121515624

I know. 8 years later and no issues at all. All of the fear mongering about prisons, toilets, the world caving in, women being erased..... its all proven the fears are not an issue.

Annasopra

Dunno why we are so obsessed about 0.002% of the population.

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515696#Comment_121515696

Are there (m)any male to female athletes in Ireland currently doing any of the above? I don't mean to be a d*ck about it but the numbers are so tiny that it's not a thing I can see happening in the near future. Like, circa 600 male to female transitions since 2015 in Ireland. I doubt they're gonna be winning medals or even participating anytime soon.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512532#Comment_121512532

These issues didn't exist? Are you for real? Go read up on Renée Richards and see how this issue was being dealt with fifty years ago without any fuss or drama. It was being dealt with five years ago, after the Gender Recognition Act came into being without any fuss or drama.

But suddenly, we had some Irish media outlets, Irish Times, RTE, Indo picking up on the manufactured crisis from the same UK tabloids that brought you Brexit and anti immigrant hysteria. Did you really not notice where this was coming from?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512579#Comment_121512579

The vast majority of those banging on about trans women in sports aren't female sports persons or indeed aren't female. In general, they're not people who gave a toss about anything to do with women's sports - no concerns about funding, or facilities, or the drop off in participation for 14 year olds or lack of training for referees or lack of access to gyms and programmes. But suddenly, they read up on one or two edge cases in the Daily Heil or the Irish tabloids, and suddenly there is a 'road to Damascus' conversion and it's all 'won't someone please think of the little girls'.

And we have the same scenarios with the people who never cared about how women ended up in prison or how they were treated in prison or what educational opportunities in prison - but again, when they're riled up by one or two edge cases, they're suddenly ever so concerned about women in prison.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512615#Comment_121512615

And where did you see this damage being done to women by men?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512627#Comment_121512627

Again, it is a manufactured argument, one that has lead to many women and indeed girls who choose non-traditional looks, perhaps butch looking or choosing male or generic clothing, being challenged and threatened by self-appointed gatekeepers who think they can tell people where they can pee. Unless you're planning on having someone checking certificates or checking genitals (as they're doing in some parts of the States where far right influences have actually succeeded) at the door of every toilet and every changing room, it's a pointless argument.

Many bathrooms are now unisex or individual cubicles. Many changing rooms are individual cubicles. If men want to invade bathrooms to carry out violence, they don't need to take on a female appearance to do so.

Male supremacy is the violence that men carry out against women every hour of every day, mostly the men who are in relationships with those women - violence that gets zero coverage in these discussions, because we're too obsessed with other people's genitals.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512654#Comment_121512654

Strangely enough, the voting rules would disagree with you. What are these 'women only spaces' btw?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512732#Comment_121512732

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the scenario you've pointed out of "just allowing someone to head off for gender surgery just because they've decided to want to be the opposite gender" doesn't exist outside of your twisted imagination.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513597#Comment_121513597

Of all the risks to women in sports, where does competing against trans women rank in terms of probability and impact?

Of all the risks to women in prison, where does being imprisoned with trans rank in terms of probability and impact?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512943#Comment_121512943

Did the scenario of "but anyone that dares to raise an eyebrow is a transphobe, a TERF" happen in this discussion at all?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513890#Comment_121513890

You don't 'spot' autism or ADHD. You diagnose these conditions.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514017#Comment_121514017

Tories gonna Tory.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514902#Comment_121514902

If you ACTUALLY want to protect women from harm, you focus on the 99% of violence that comes from cis men, often their partner or close family, rather than obsessing about the tiny percentage of the tiny percentage of trans women who may be violent.

You do ACTUALLY want to protect women from harm, don't you?

CatFromHue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515770#Comment_121515770

Because of the effect on 50% of the population as most of the effect will be on women's rights. We have women's only spaces, like prisons, for a reason but the law has now changed that these aren't single sex any more. Once you change the law you have to accept that something different will happen from then on. I don't think anyone was paying attention when the law was actually changed but now that real life has started to show what the effect of this change means people are starting to see it. We now have transwomen in the women's prison for sexual and violent crimes. Of course that's not to say transwomen are sexual or violent criminals but every demographic has people who commit crimes.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515865#Comment_121515865

You don't 'spot' autism or ADHD. You diagnose these conditions.

Patients who go to phycological services should expect to get a through evaluation, just like if you went to your GP with a suspected broken bone they might take your blood pressure and check to see if there is anything else wrong with you as well.

Affirmative care is about the patient not only diagnosing themselves but choosing the treatment as well.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515202#Comment_121515202

So no scenario of kids from Ireland getting surgery before the age of 18, the scenario that was repeatedly pushed on this thread by those who are into scare mongering - thanks for confirming that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515427#Comment_121515427

The overwhelming danger of violence to females does not happen on the sports field. The major sources from danger are the men in their lives.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515505#Comment_121515505

Many of the discussions here, including your repeated scaremongering about kids under 18 getting surgery, was a long way off respectful, and absolutely obsesses about the gender status of a tiny number of people.

CatFromHue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515865#Comment_121515865

Irish media has been very slow to cover this topic.

I know about the Richards case and to say there was no fuss or drama is not true as she had to take a court case to play women's tennis. Our understanding of what happens during transition is far more advanced than back then too. Even Richards herself has changed her mind

“Having lived for the past 30 years, I know if I’d had surgery at the age of 22, and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me. And so I’ve reconsidered my opinion.” She adds, “There is one thing that a transsexual woman unfortunately cannot expect to be allowed to do, and that is to play professional sports in her chosen field. She can get married, live as woman, do all of those other things, and no one should ever be allowed to take them away from her. But this limitation—that’s just life. I know because I lived it.”

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515923#Comment_121515923

We seen it in Tavistock, being kids from here were being sent there it's a possibility yes ....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515923#Comment_121515923

I said it before; I imagine you are a very decent, extremely well principled person in real life, I’ve no doubt about that. In spite of rather persistently “belligerent” posting. In real life I’m likewise a very decent individual, though sometimes belligerent!

I would acknowledge other posters on the same side of the argument are likewise, very nice decent people.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515581#Comment_121515581

I thought the comorbidity thing was used as a possible explanation for the increase in numbers. It's certainly more plausible than the theory that it's because it's easier to be out these days at the same LGBT NGO's say transphobia and homophobia are on the rise.

MichaelMedik

@AndrewJRenko

>So no scenario of kids from Ireland getting surgery before the age of 18, the scenario that was repeatedly pushed on this thread by those who are into scare mongering - thanks for confirming that.

Thank you for confirming that a child from the UK had surgery to remove their male genitalia on their 16th birthday and that nothing in my post was untrue.

As you ask for evidence all the time in this thread, could I ask you please for evidence of your statement that no-one under the age of 18 from Ireland has had this surgery?

As it has happened to a - barely - 16 year old from the UK, why do you assume that it hasn't happened to anyone under 18 from Ireland, considering Ireland has referred cases to the UK?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515922#Comment_121515922

Where did you get this from?

Affirmative care is about the patient not only diagnosing themselves but choosing the treatment as well.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515956#Comment_121515956

This is your own little fantasy, with zero evidence.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516062#Comment_121516062

But it's a possibility yes , being it's happened in the UK yes

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515996#Comment_121515996

I thought the comorbidity thing was used as a possible explanation for the increase in numbers. 

It is, by groups who are hoping it resonates with the public to portray autistic and/or gay children as being exploited by other lobby groups (they’re NGOs too btw), or girls who don’t want to be girls, the narrative they’re pushing that those girls think it’s easier to be a man. Just fire off any old shìt and hope something sticks is all, in order to attempt to induce moral panic among the general public.

That’s why I asked the OP did the Prime Time programme cover anything about the previous decades of mandatory sterilisation of people who were seeking legal recognition of their preferred gender, or seeking treatment for what was then gender dysphoria, or did it cover anything about people being able to procure hormone treatments without prescriptions?

It’s really not plausible as an explanation for the rise in people identifying as transgender at all, not least because it ignores the other 70% of children who aren’t autistic, or the fact that either being gay or lesbian has nothing to do with being transgender - they’re completely separate, so the idea that children are just gay or lesbian doesn’t speak at all as to whether or not they may or may not also be transgender - it simply means that of those patients who have been seen, there are that percentage of them who also experience gender dysphoria, and an even smaller percentage again who require further support, whether that be in the form of counselling, medication or surgery.

It also says nothing about the thousands of people on waiting lists who have been referred by their GPs, and it says nothing about the thousands of parents who have to tolerate the fact that they could be forced to wait years on the public healthcare system, or go private if they have the means to afford to do so. Many parents simply can’t afford it, many more would prefer to pretend it’s a phase and their children will grow out of it.

The fact that it’s easier to be out these days isn’t contradicting the fact that homophobia and transphobia are also on the rise, as indicated by the fact that a person can’t even do something as simple as doing their grocery shopping these days without some scumbag following them round with a phone and posting about them on social media for likes -

https://www.thepinknews.com/2013/11/20/tesco-launches-inquiry-into-employees-posting-online-photos-and-videos-abusing-trans-customers/

Says more about that particular individual than anything it says about people who are transgender.

Beasty

We have had more than enough trans-bashing threads

Closed