EV Depreciation

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562668#Comment_121562668

Yes they are. Depends on the make and model, but the Tesla Model S that I have now and also my previous one, had 8 years and unlimited miles battery and drivetrain (so yes, motor, inverter, etc.) warranty

The battery in my last car was replaced free of charge when the car was almost 7 years old. While I was waiting for the repair on my old car, I was driving around in a free €100k value Model X for 3 weeks with free unlimited fuel and free tolls. Mercedes, BMW, Porsche etc. should take notice of this level of customer service 😂

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563551#Comment_121563551

ID4 77kwh weights 2099kg range 322 miles

Ford Kuga PHEV weights 1844kg range 470 miles

I'd call them similar vehicles, I'm not sure what your point is really?

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563334#Comment_121563334

The huge difference is the one of endurance, for me anyway. There are days i need a car that will do 700km where there is no great infrastructure. There are days i need to be in Dublin at 9am and back by lunchtime. Those days may only amount to 5 a year, but I need a car for 100% of the time, I don’t want to “manage”, for what?

i bought a hv because we already have a phev and to be honest I’d only be average with plugging it in. My wife is fastidious,l with plugging it in and she has a car that can do 0-60 in 6 seconds and only costs €45 a month to run, and never needs to be charged bar at home when convenient. The ice only runs 10% of the time and when it does it returns 45mpg.

A Bev needs to be plugged in every other night anyway for most people.

a phev has nothing additional over a normal hybrid save for a better battery and higher power motors.

A Toyota phev won’t break your heart like a exxxde might (and I say this as someone who has always owned 1 - 3 mercs from 2009 until 2 months ago…)

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563808#Comment_121563808

A PHEV suits you better for sure. But you are an outlier with those needs. Driving 700km in Ireland without ever passing a fast charge point / Tesla supercharger? That alone would be pretty difficult if you wanted to do it, would need very careful planning 😂

I'm like @Gumbo, I didn't use public charging even once last year. My car has a motorway range of about 300km, have done several trips of around that last year alright. Obviously if you already live in the Dublin area, it's not a big spin if you have to go to Dublin

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563835#Comment_121563835

I live in cork. I go to Dublin a bit. Every car. I have ever owed can do the return journey on a tank. When I am finished in Dublin (no offence) I want to get out asap and not stop driving until I am home. Equally if I need to go to Cavan or Sligo, I want to stop when I feel the need to eat etc, not when the car does. I still only do 25k kms pa, but most of it is business related, and being late isn’t an option.

the ev (right now) is a needless compromise for many people. Of course this will change and Bevs are a theoretically superior solution, but it looking like it will be slower than many thought.

sy_flembeck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563109#Comment_121563109

After less than a year with the Born I did just that and got a Formentor. Absolutely no regrets

drunkmonkey

Did Mercedes drop the price of the EQE? I see you can pick up a 2024 for 76k. Thought they were about 100k last year.

Just watched Nobbys review from last year again. Wonder how accurate his estimate of 300km when driving it on is, wouldn't be capable of cork Dublin and back.191 listed on done deal that's a lot.

He just put up the EV9 review, range doesn't sound inspiring. Depreciation should be interesting.

https://youtu.be/Ee1l880OzIg?feature=shared

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563954#Comment_121563954

Yes 10k off them I think , 100k was for a pretty well specced one before the drop you could get a basic one for 85k

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563808#Comment_121563808

Fair enough you have the mileage requirements but I maintain most people don’t. We do around 15,000 km a year most of the time we charge once a week, what kind of mileage do you think most people do if you say they need to plug in every second night ??

John arse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563995#Comment_121563995

Interesting times!

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564001#Comment_121564001

80/100km a day? Not hard if you live outside of Dublin and have job, few children, etc and you are going to want to keep something in the tank, because life has a habit of being unexpected.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564066#Comment_121564066

Statistics don’t bear that out though.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564129#Comment_121564129

Average car in Ireland does about 16k km per year from memory, so a bit over 40km on average a day. If your range is 400km, then charging once a week always leaves a good bit of reserve "in the tank"

Personally I charge either of my EVs every day, as I only have a 3 hour window of 5c / kWh. Last year the main car did well more than average mileage and it's also a gaz guzzler, and I still easily managed that. The second family car only does about 7-8k km per year or thereabouts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563867#Comment_121563867

Take the train.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564246#Comment_121564246

Sure, drive 50 mins in the wrong direction to find there is no parking at the station; double the travel time and get a bus transfer at Gabhail luimni. Come back to a clamped car. Been there, done that, never again.

unkel

LOL, take the train. Are you Eamon Ryan, @[Deleted User]?

I like your username though 😁

PowerToWait

Been reading this with interest. Especially when I saw the 0 km Born at 30k, even though that's not a runner now.

I have a 35k annual commute. Currently in an 182 E220d estate, very comfortable, but clocking up the miles. Also costing me 150 a week in juice, maintenance and tyres excluding tax and insurance.

The Cupra etc wouldn't suit my /outside of work/ lifestyle, but purely as a commuter I can see how it might be advantageous. My Merc could serve me for years as a lifestyle car putting 5k a year on. Weekends I've dogs, gear, stuff I need and comfort required.

I have the money to buy straight, so could it make ''sense'' to buy a 1 year old, heavily discounted EV as my get to work car? Commute is 70% Mway, 25% N road. I am set up for home charging (outlet is in situ, new build), though night rate Kwh is 20 cent (closer to 25 when vat and SC factored in) due to an almighty fcuk up when I stupidly signed to smart meter tariff.

Just thinking, spare the Merc, one service a year, get 15 years out of it no hassle to do my hobbies on time off. Change the EV every 2 years. Also improved driver assist tech could make that commute less painful?

I'll do the lad maths myself, just curious as to others' opinions on this scenario. Can a modern (22/23) EV beat the Merc in comfort and lessening driver fatigue?

vicM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563802#Comment_121563802

You weren't sure what my point is but made a statement anyway.

I've stated probably on this platform or another that large battery EVs are creations born from all the people who said they needed an EV that can do 400 kms on a charge. Caused the OEMs to go out of their way to put massive batteries in cars when they could have made 2 50kwh cars rather than one 82kwh one and satisfied most users.

Back to the PHEVs, I find most are used as commuters and most strive not to use the ICE part, so why not just get a 50Kwh EV. The Odd time you need to travel further, charge it enroute/destination. I know this is looking at things through my own lenses, but in my circle the big milage commuters are sticking with Diesel and the shorter commuters have gone fully electric.

At the end of the day though, just get what you want

CivilEx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563867#Comment_121563867

This is a very similar use case for me. I drive from Mayo to our office in Dublin, plug into one of the 7kW chargers in the car park (there are plenty of them) while I'm at work.

When I get back in the car at 4pm it's back at 100%, I get in and drive home. No stops needed for DC fast charging, no compromise, no delay.

When I'm travelling elsewhere around the country I simply time the DC fast charge with my lunch or a coffee. More often than not, the car has charged before I finish.

I do 25,000km p.a. where 12.000km is business related. There is a little bit more forward planning needed (I recommend you have a look at the Plugshare app), but being late isn't an option for me either.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121543609#Comment_121543609

Sod that for a game of soldiers. Did a 300km trip last Friday evening in dreadful conditions in my diesel focus wipers full bore n heater on.

If I had to stop to charge I'd be bulling especially after spending 40k on a new motor. If I had to queue to charge - goodnight Irene, I'd need a holding pen to put the kids in!

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564492#Comment_121564492

Even my base model 3 (now listed for 42k new, whereas it was 54k in sept 22 when I bought it) would do that trip fine.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564351#Comment_121564351

Running two cars to do the job of one car could get expensive. Could you not find a bigger EV that would be okay for your lifestyle needs?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564351#Comment_121564351

Nothing wrong with the idea but I’d explore if there’s an EV that can cover both? Removed one insurance policy, motor tax and frees up the garden space too.

Do the maths for both cars being kept and see. But if I was buying an EV purely for the “commute” then I’d be keeping it as cheap as possible.

I done it before while keeping the BMW M3, and golf GTi, bought a leaf. Cheap commute but I ended up using the leaf on the weekends too. Yes I missed going to cars and coffee but I ended up selling both ICE and getting a newer EV.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562668#Comment_121562668

Good point and important to check the detail - seems like the best selling ID4 and other VW group ev's are quite limited covering battery only after the bumper to bumper 3 year warranty is up,. Tesla, Kia and others cover the full drivetrain but few cover over 160,000km

I do think that longer and more comprehensive warranties are needed- one of the reasons the Model S held its value so well was down to the superb warranty they came with- 8 year/ infinite miles. Buying a 5 year old meant you got as good as warranty as you could with a new Mercedes or BMW

The 70% battery capacity also needs to be much higher to inspire confidence in used buyers

djan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564630#Comment_121564630

I'd say you'd be cutting it quite close if at all doing 300km in bad weather especially wind at 125km/h indicated going by various test results. For national roads absolutely fine but once you hit motorway speeds in bad weather, range gets decimated.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564902#Comment_121564902

100% agree. A 77kWh VAG EV will just about get 300km at motorway speeds in winter.

traco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564351#Comment_121564351

Mrs Traco replaced her 2007 ML320Cdi with a Model Y. On a par comfort wise and a big step up in tech with the advanced driver aids so that reduces dirver fatigue as it had no adapyive cruise etc etc only basic on / off. Yours may have more options. It is uch much quieter and would be quieter than your 182 also.

In terms of space the Y is huge with the seats down. I was shocked at the space, so much bigger than the ML and also my Superb Estate. The rear boot lid slopes so you would need to check that if you carry the dogs with rear seats up but unless they are wolfhounds I think you would be OK. Rear boot cover is rubbish though - not a nice retractable one like yours.

Could be worth a look.

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563867#Comment_121563867

I do Dublin to Cork a few times a month, have to be in Little Island for 9am.

I find it easily doable. If I'm ahead of time, I'll do a 15min charge on the way down when I'm getting a coffee (as I always stop for a coffee/breakfast snack), or else when I'm finished my meetings and on the way back up, I'll pull in somewhere for a quick charge while getting lunch. I value my time, so only charge when stopping to eat/get refreshment, there's no need to separate the two.

That's with a 62KW battery. If I had gone for the 77KW version of my car, it would be even less of a stop, or potentially not have to stop at all in the summer.

If the site I visit had chargers, or there was a slow charger within 15mins walk (no public ones in Little Island), I wouldn't have to stop at all on the journey. Chargers are being installed at the site soon, so I probably won't charge in future when I stop for coffee/lunch.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564902#Comment_121564902

Well I've done 45k km since Sept last in it, and the vast majority is on the M11. I know what motorway range I get, and I always drive at the speed limit + VAT. You've got 61kWh gross and 56kWh net in the LFP RWD. To do 300 km you only need to average 187wh/km. My average over the lifetime of my ownership is ~150.

I'm far from an EVangelist or a Musk kool aid fanboy but I like to tell it as it is.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565009#Comment_121565009

If 150 is the lifetime efficiency, what’s the motorway efficiency? Tks

am looking for an EV with 350k winter motorway range, for a regular 175km round trip

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565034#Comment_121565034

Why would you need 350km winter motorway range if your trip is only half that? Very few EVs can do 350km at 120km/h in bad cold weather. Many first time EV owners overestimate the size of the battery they need. Then they overpay for their EV that has more range than they need and to add insult to injury, they needlessly carry around a few hundred kg more than required, so have higher fuel use for the entirety of their ownership.

ELM327

The vast majority of my driving in that car is motorway. Local trips are done in my leaf or herself's Ora. I'd generally estimate 175 in winter and 155 or less in summer. I've never seen higher than 180 - even in the worst possible conditions.

Watch Bjorn Nyland's reviews of EVs, he does a 90 & 120 kmh range test and shows exactly what efficiency and range you will get in each, and works out winter and summer range. Himself and Out of Spec are the two best channels for EVs for range and efficiency calculations as they are consistent tests in the same manner on the same roads and they are transparent. Bjorn even has the historical data for all EVs tested available on public google sheeeeets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565090#Comment_121565090

Presumably they want to come home too... One imagines the 175km, rather than being a round trip, is each way.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565161#Comment_121565161

@sk8board specifically said "for a regular 175km round trip"

Cyrus

People might be surprised to see their average speed on a long trip as well, its rare enough to do a full trip at motorway speeds.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564861#Comment_121564861

192,000km warranty on my Model 3.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565169#Comment_121565169

He also said 350km. You know, people do make mistakes sometimes, but there's no need to be a gowl about it.

MojoMaker

Probably was a typo, but interesting that a blow-in to the forum is challenging it.

Destination charging at all @sk8board? You might be within range of a supercharger on this trip?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565210#Comment_121565210

Yes my regular 250km motorway jaunt from wexford to dublin and back, with only a few km each end off the motorway generally has average speed around 100-110 even though I do 105 on the M50 and 125-129 on the M11.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565361#Comment_121565361

Is it the agricultural VAT rate you're using then? I thought it was standard VAT 🙂

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564955#Comment_121564955

Ideal for people who can't manage a Dublin / Cork trip without having to stop each and every time anyway for coffee / lunch / toilet I suppose.

maddness

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564783#Comment_121564783

How was the experience going from the Gti and M3 to a EV. I’ve had a couple of M2’s recently and have just bought a 330e touring to do me for a few months but am very tempted by a Model 3 LR or Performance.

maddness

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565009#Comment_121565009

So how far can you get in those conditions in the winter and warmer weather?

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565321#Comment_121565321

Exactly this yep - no opportunity to destination charge (zero interest in leeching of an OAPs electricity, nor stop for a charge somewhere)

350km round trip, 175km each way.

90% motorway, 5% national, 5% deep rural Ireland - and back.

ive done the trip every month for 25years, 1hr45min each way non-stop, so thats the EV for me.

350km of winter motorway driving is hardly a hard ask for a family car, it’s literally just 3.5hrs at 100kmph from 100-0

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565708#Comment_121565708

Different, at the start. But in moment the longest EV owners in here. We got 2 Fluences and a Kangoo in 2012. Followed by multiple Leafs.

I enjoyed getting into the tech of the cars. Heated seats, wheels, led lights, all mega options or not available on bmw at the time.

It lacked the performance of course. But I was using the M3 less and less. But Ive had S3, V8’s and many other variants before swapping to EV

As soon as I had a Tesla Performance, I forgot about the petrol cars tbh. I still love them. Current M2 is my favorite bmw design at the moment but I wouldn’t go back. I’m done.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565724#Comment_121565724

Sounds like you're visiting the home place? Your EV life would be easier for you if you granny charged at your destination on those times you need it, which sounds like it would only be a few times in winter. There've been a few times when I've started the trip home with a low SoC and I topped up by a few % just to remove any 'range anxiety' for the return trip. There's a reason it's called a 'granny charger' 🙂

waterwelly

I guess the moral of the story here is that EV's are suitable for a certain cohort of people. When we reach saturation point on that remains to be seen.

It's when we get to people with no home charging option that the real challenge presents itself.

My guess is that technology will solve that issue before it becomes a problem.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565724#Comment_121565724

Might make more sense just to pay the OAP the cost of the electricity?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565311#Comment_121565311

Your clairvoyance skills are obviously better than mine 🙄

I take posts on internet forums at face value. He said 350km range and 175km round trip were needed.

@sk8board - as I said, to do 350km at 120km/h GPS speed on a bad day in winter, you would need a seriously long distance EV. I guess the likes of a Tesla Model 3 LR (the later made in China model) might do it, but don't take my word for it. Maybe an owner can come in here to report. Personally I would rather compromise on behaviour on the worst days of the year as in drive a bit slower or charge somewhere, than overpay for an EV with a range you rarely need. Or just stay with diesel for now.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565720#Comment_121565720

Enough that I never have to think about it. Comfortably more than my regular 250km round trip with 15-25% remaining.