EV Depreciation

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121707333#Comment_121707333

Imo Modern cars "in general" the more smart they are, the more affected by software they are. More modern mechanical tech like turbos, dpf,egf, all have had their problems.

You can get a low tech ev like the eUP. You can get a high tech petrol car like Range Rover.

VW ID range is quite innovative and new. There's going to be teething issues. Anyone one who buys one now, are getting it after a few years of updates.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121707333#Comment_121707333

EVs in general, but obviously the IDs are the biggest volume seller by far.

you’re beta testing a lot of new ‘stuff’, which car people may not mind, but Joe Public will just keep thinking to themselves that “I didn’t have to deal with this sh1t with my last car”.

Tesla and all the rest of them are no different, and yes they’ll get the creases ironed out, and no doubt someone will retort with an ICE whataboutism, but all EV drivers heretofore are beta testers, it’s just that some haven’t realised it yet :)

the 12 th man

That's why the Leaf was so popular for so long despite being slightly outdated,Nissan have had about 15 years to iron out glitches.

oinkely

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121703881#Comment_121703881

They are just like any other used car to a certain extent. Look at the current crop of evs that are of that age and they are not worthless. They are still useful to a lot of people for a lot of journeys and have a value as such - even with depreciated battery capacity from an already small starting point. We have an 11 year old nissan leaf - hasn't needed a new battery yet, nor is it falling off a cliff in terms of degradation. it's slowly ticking down at a predictable rate and will still be useful for most of our running around in another 5 years. So I would be certain that the a used EV of the current 40/50/60/70 kw battery capacity will be more than useful for most people in 8/9 years and will have a similar value relative to any other 8/9 year old car at the time. They may even end up with a better retained value as govt policies push more costs on to ICE to discourage continued use. I would also anticipate that when the current crop of cars are 8/9+ years old there will be a much wider network of non-dealer mechanics who will be prepared to work on them so big ticket breakages will be much cheaper to fix than at present and battery refurbishment will possibly be a much more common / normal occurrence than it is now.

Patser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121707489#Comment_121707489

Speaking just as an MG owner - and the software glitches that need ironing out are more to do with things like bluetooth and phone connectivity than anything really driving related - with the one huge exception the Lane Keep assist, which is just a bit too agressie even after being tuned down a bit already. But yeah, as car designers, all these new cars seem to have software glitches as the car designers struggle to understand their customers needs and how to get updates out to them - unlike say a phone manufacturer would easily do

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710709#Comment_121710709

For me software is the big unknown with all modern cars irrespective of propulsion. Cars are just so godamn complex now just like all electronics so their useful longevity will depend on the extent to which this software and accompanying hardware can be economically supported/repaired as cars age. The lump hammer and spanner will be increasingly less valuable in the battle to keep them on the road in the coming years. Same goes for all white goods of which cars are increasingly joining the ranks.

Patser

A lot of that is down to Euro NCAP safety standards - now all cars require LKA (that automatically is set to on when car starts), speed sign recognition and increasingly driver alertness monitoring.

Add in driver comfort aids like assisted cruise control, traffic jam assist, automatic lights and wipers - and modern cars are awash with sensors, radars, mini computers and all required software.

And that's before you even think of engine, brakes, gearboxes etc

silverharp

I got a laugh out of this, basically the dumbest class of customer and a dealer's wet dream but somehow its the EV's fault

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1753697390798717233

munchkin_utd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121719763#Comment_121719763

Arent there guaranteed minium cash in values on cars on a PCP ?

I know people factor in that they "will" get more, but in reality its a throw of the dice.

Also, shes not facing a loss of 22k. Its a second hand car so it obviously is worth less than the new price so the loss or difference in expected value might be more like a shade over 10k of a negative value, and she put down a deposit before of a shade over 10k, so actually shes breaking even.

(maybe you can tell that my sympathy is lacking for someone who drives a brand new 65k car off the forecourt, and whinges that the savage depreciation is a bit more savage than anticpated)

CraftBeer

So, the price cuts announced recently to certain EV's were limited to the 'ready to deliver' stock, in order to clear the surplus of EV's from manufacturers or dealers.

Does anyone think those price cuts will be available again in June this year? Or will the prices increase again for 242's?

JoeA3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731029#Comment_121731029

That’s not the case. The cuts applied by VW and Tesla apply to new orders, new build cars. Not sure about other marques.

CraftBeer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731271#Comment_121731271

Thanks. My interpretation of the first sentence in the below article is wrong then.

"Cupra hatchback is the latest EV to get a price cut, with up to €7,000 off for cars ready for immediate delivery for the 241 sales period."

Hopefully the price cuts will stick around beyond that period.

https://cartourismo.ie/cars/news/cupra-born-ev-price-cut/

Buddy Bubs

The cuts may be to ready for delivery cars but there is a lull in demand so they are doing it for a reason. Hard to see a reversal in prices for new orders keeping demand up. They are too expensive for mainstream tastes.

sk8board

Considering sales have flatlined after the recent price cuts to the 2 biggest volume EVs (VW ans Tesla), and additional options in the market like BYd, I think it’s fair to say that the price cuts are here to stay for the foreseeable future

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731356#Comment_121731356

The product guide from Jan '22

It's a pity the small battery never released, it's still a lot of car for the price

aidanodr

Why is there, what appears to be a big drop in price for 2nd hand 2023 or older Mazda MX30 EV Suvs?

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/mazda/mx-30

Around 50K new, then 2023 or older Mid 20K

drunkmonkey

There's not a huge amount for sale, looks like a mix of imports and demo models, I'd say when the demo models are flushed out you might see the prices rise a bit, they're forecast to hold 50% after 3 years.

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759244#Comment_121759244

Mileage also very low on all of them. I imagine if some one was interested in an EV right now .. while it lasts .. this is a steal / bargain. And MAZDA as a make has very good calibre. Very reliable. ( I would say that, I drive MX5s .. wife Mazda 3s :D )

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759291#Comment_121759291

They've a pretty limited range, when you go to flip it in 2/3 years it could go against you. Your 5 could be worth more. Nice daily by the way 😄

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759198#Comment_121759198

They were a complete flop, in the us at least. You would be married to it, and it might be a bit like misery, as you won’t go very far.

https://electrek.co/2023/07/29/mazda-kills-off-mx-30-ev-in-us-again-after-selling-just-66-cars/

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759291#Comment_121759291

They’re a very restricted ownership proposition due to having such a small battery coupled with zero kerb appeal.

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759412#Comment_121759412

@drunkmonkey Wont be me buying an electric :D .. Too tied to my MXes .. this is my 4th, an 08 NC. Its my daily driver. Great car. I do note the value of them is gone up surprisingly. Looks like my car has become an asset. Still flies through the NCTs. Only recent issue was driver side Caliper .. sorted & fixed. No sign of MX5s going EV any time soon though I have seen specialist car shops in UK doing conversions. Good few vids on youtube in this regard. Cost though is nuts .. 20 odd thousand plus and I think thats sterling

https://jetpower.co.uk/ev-mx5-conversion/

I would love some day to see EV conversion become far more affordable, it would definitely help the general conversion over to Electric if many people could affordably convert there existing motor.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759549#Comment_121759549

This.

i seem to remember Mazda pitching it as “our analysis says that this range is all you should usually need”.

you'd want to be paying Leaf or Ioniq money for them to make sense

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759198#Comment_121759198

When they launched in early 21 (I think) they were very early 30's which at the time was a bit expensive for the range. Anybody who really paid close to 50 for one was taken for a ride as they say. They do make a good second hand buy at 15k for the early ones that suffered about 18k depreciation in 3 years.

For anybody who paid 50k would stand to loose 35k. I hope not many did.

clunked

Thinking of purchasing say a 3 yr old electric car but feel that it may not be wise if there are substantial price reductions over the next few months if the market slows down. Is this a wise course of action or what do folks think?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121814805#Comment_121814805

If you buy a 3 year old petrol or diesel car, will that avoid depreciation?

Buy what suits you.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121814805#Comment_121814805

What type of car and money are you looking for? Some of them have dropped prices to where I personally feel they should be and used prices have moved with them. Might not be bargains around but say an approx 20k id3 looks like a decent buy now at 3 to 4 years old.

If they are too close to new prices at 3 to 4 years old, or too close to direct competitor prices new, say more than 50% at 4 years and 60% at 3 years then I wouldn't buy

denismc

The ID3 prices have already taken a big tumble in the last 12 months, the news headlines are only catching up now.

Have a look at look ID3 prices on Donedeal/ Carzone and compare them to the petrol/diesel Golfs of the same age.

IMO 2nd hand ID3's are good value now compared to their ICE equivalents.

k123456

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121814805#Comment_121814805

I would hold for a few months, VZ dropped prices a while back might take more time go used prices to drop

Skoda dropped prices a few days ago might take more time go used prices to drop

Hyundai will hopefully follow suit

clunked

Thanks for the views so far. I think if I can bargain a good deal, I’ll be tempted

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121815325#Comment_121815325

I’d agree with this - the market is dropping and not everyone has made cuts yet, and then those drops eventually feed into 2nd hand cars, so I’d be waiting it out unless you find a car and price that suits you.

the Irish car market in general has slowed considerably in the past 6 months, the likes of donedeal and Carzone have record numbers of listings, which usually means cars aren’t selling at current prices.

handpref

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121815120#Comment_121815120

Sound Advice - Model 3 prices still glacially slow to move-

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759198#Comment_121759198

The MX30 has a poor range

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121835942#Comment_121835942

It’s a supply issue.

there’s only about 50 cars for sale in the whole country, and maybe 10 that represent any kind of value.

the UK is stuffed full of 3 year old lease cars, but they’re slightly more expensive there than here, so imports of M3 are slow, even though they seem like such a no-brainer.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836194#Comment_121836194

Model 3 is cheaper to buy in the UK than here. I imported one for just shy of €20k after VAT refund. I’d say dealers just aren’t too interested in them due to how volatile the market is. Sure right after I bought mine the Model Y price reduction was announced which probably put a bit pressure on used Model 3 prices here. If it was a Model 3 price reduction I probably would have been more screwed, but it hasn’t seemed to have a big effect on used prices.

At least you know that if you get a good deal on a used Tesla your probably not going to suffer that much depreciate, unlike other brands which are dropping much faster.

ELM327

for all the talk about depreciation and EVs not wanted by dealers, I'm in Merlin's at the moment and there was a flurry of dealers bidding on a leaf30 with a damaged door and it sold (not provisional, so it met the reserve).

(I amn't here for another leaf, I have an eye on a v8!)

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836650#Comment_121836650

Presumably it’s dealers bidding at bargain basement levels, who have an ability to still get it fixed and sold cheaply.

if anything it’s representative of the market - no one wants the expensive 2nd hand stuff, and meanwhile there’s far FAR more buyers for cheap cars

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836680#Comment_121836680

2 leaf 30 here, both sold just under 5k with cosmetic damage. The second one only had 66% SOH too. Can't imagine theres much money in it. But I have to remember, these are 8 year old cars now. Comparing with other 2015/2016 cars, they are similarly priced.

The leaf 30 was about 28k from new if memory serves. 5k/28k gives 18% of value remaining after 8 years.

If we compare that to the 2014 cashcow that Im looking at now, it sold for 7.5k today, so 8k after fees, for a 10 year old basic spec petrol car that probably cost 24k new max. That's 31% of value remaining after 10 years.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836698#Comment_121836698

And that’s 31% of value at dealer/bargain prices.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836743#Comment_121836743

Yes, all these are trade auction prices, makes it even more remarkable and maybe shows the opposite of what I was saying earlier. More dealers wanted the qashqai than the leaf, because more customers want it, so more value remains.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836755#Comment_121836755

Dealers don’t care about the individual car per say, it’s just a matter of knowing what they think they can sell quickly and with a dependable margin.

saw someone interviewed last week in the UK who got a trade Taycan in and flipped it with decent margin almost immediately - so they went on to buy and sell 15 of them over the next 8 weeks at almost identical prices and specs - the sale prices were all very cheap in the market

Flinty997

I'd be cautious about assuming short term activity in a market will be mirrored in the long term.

I'd also be cautious thinking a new market or new tech doesn't come with some pain. It's not called the bleeding edge for no reason.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836755#Comment_121836755

Traders are also more knowledgeable on how to fix up/bodge a Qashqui than a Leaf for small money.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836698#Comment_121836698

23k/8 = circa 3k Pa depreciation Leaf

16k/10 = circa 1.6k Pa deprecation Quashqai

liamog

Mod Note: Keep the new sales discussion to the relevant thread.

ELM327

EV depreciation is global, these guys (I followed them before I had an EV, they arent an EV only channel but have owned 3+ EVs so they generally give unbiased views) lost 20k on a 11 month old model 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgExHowkmls

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838339#Comment_121838339

THey explain, Tesla dropping all the price meant a big hit

Electric cars have been overpriced, so anyone who has bought in last 2-3 years will need to hold onto them or lose a lot....to me they are still overpriced and need to come down

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838339#Comment_121838339

Isn't depreciation on everything global?

Old diesel

There's a real risk of a vicious circle situation developing here.

If it hasn't already.

EV prices dropping new and used will create a situation where everyone waits to see the end game.

Dealers will be nervous of putting a value on an EV in case prices drop further.

Potential customers interested in an EV will be holding back or buying another ICE. They won't want to pay 35 k for a car and be seeing the same model of car at 30 k in 3 months time.

I test drove an EV less then 2 months ago.

2nd hand.

Car still there on done deal at 7 k less this week.

Imagine paying full asking two months ago.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838933#Comment_121838933

The new EV's are coming about right now. Like a ID.4 starting at circa 40k is about right but I still think it needs 0% PCP....so still a bit high.