"average Dublin house prices should fall to ‘the €300,000 mark" according to Many Lou McD.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656687#Comment_121656687

If only. Problem is the exact opposite.

People deny the reality of existing potential stock, whilst they keep grafting on the back of empty promises of increased new build stock.

maybe some day those new builds will appear, I wouldn't hold my breath though.

abozzz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656763#Comment_121656763

Fair enough.

The reality, either way, is simply intractable without addressing mass migration that forms the bed rock of increased demand that increases prices, thereby encouraging foreign mega investment into the continuation of the crisis, thereby stacking the barriers higher each day against any kind of workable solution.

It's a spiral we've allowed ourselves to be trapped in.

abozzz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656698#Comment_121656698

No, I don't think I will individualise an entire country's infrastructural issues down to random people to try and guilt people into inaction.

No I dont think I'll do that all.

I think ill stay focused on insanely destructive government policy regardless of whether Stefan Urquidez McMenamin Kobayashi does a speedy delivery of food or not.

Emblematic

As I suggested earlier, the main problem is people taking solutions that were appropriate some time ago and assuming they remain appropriate forever.

For example, a company announces they are setting up in a particular area and creating with it 1000 in that region. In times gone by, that company moving to that location is almost entirely positive. Local people will be directly employed by the company, others will gain employment through building, retail, hospitality and so on.

Now consider the same announcement in today's economy of full employment and indeed labour shortages. Now the bulk of those jobs will be filled by people moving in to the area putting pressure on schools, medical facilities, housing and so forth. No longer totally positive.

That is not to say that the company should be prevented from moving to the area but rather that other things need to be taken into consideration. Are there enough schools, housing, doctors and so forth to accommodate the new arrivals.

A slowing of economic growth may be preferable to the problems of not being able to get a hospital bed when needed.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656471#Comment_121656471

Great but what about the people who can't return because there's no available housing in their price range? Please explain why you think more mass immigration is the answer?

abozzz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656922#Comment_121656922

The role of an economy is essentially to improve societal infrastructure. Be it housing, healthcare, educational opportunity, job opportunity, essential staff, transport. Quality of life.

The constant bleating of "but the economy" versus the realistic calls to halt mass migration and its infrastructural damage is hilarious. At least it would be if it weren't so destructively impactful.

Less and less people care for an economy that produces nothing but more economy. Emperors new clothes, it's producing practically nothing of worth.

People want homes, social mobility, transport, affordable living, opportunity. The means to that end was traditionally the job. But when the job doesn't provide that, who cares?

The economy runs off mass migration, and people are sick to death of the cost of it, jobs or not.

Of course ill add that there would be a significant minority that are living fine without problems. Despite, not because. But if that is the measure of a successful country, then we could point to warlords in Africa as running brilliant nations too.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656966#Comment_121656966

@abozzz wrote:"The role of an economy is essentially to improve societal infrastructure. Be it housing, healthcare, educational opportunity, job opportunity, essential staff, transport. Quality of life."

It is quite a broad role as you point out, and I think the mistake people make is taking a very narrow view of it, which I have suggested is routed in our past history of high unemployment. We concentrate on the job creation aspect of it when in reality it needs to be balanced with these other aspects such as housing, transport and so on.

We've forgotten who the economy at the end of the day is for.

abozzz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657008#Comment_121657008

It's practically a meme at this point, "but the economy"

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656177#Comment_121656177

Indeed.

And a Visa type system may well become the norm in the future for Non EU citizens, though there will always be some commitment to hosting asylum seekers and refugees.

But ultimatlely, the govt will likley need to create a relationship between available accomodation/resources and IPAs.

How soon that will actually happen though, is anyones guess.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656379#Comment_121656379

So what you are saying is that there should be no migrants in ireland, period?

abozzz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657426#Comment_121657426

Right now, yes.

Similar to an extremely overweight person eating crap for the last 10 years, they'll be advised to cut out the vast majority of their current diet and refocus elsewhere.

A multi year plan no doubt.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657440#Comment_121657440

So any migrant currently living in ireland, if they are not irish, should have to leave the country?

abozzz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657452#Comment_121657452

If you want to fix multiple capacity crises, when years have already passed attempting to keep up with demand, then that leaves tackling demand as the only viable option left.

Yes, there should be a concerted, thoughtful, practical and effective apparatus in place to reduce population over a set number of years.

What's the alternative? Continue to build less housing than increasing demand? Depend on yet more migrant labour into a downward health system? Build less schools than there are children? And so forth. Years have been lost believing that nonsense.

Again, what's the alternative?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657472#Comment_121657472

Do you also believe in a cashless society and hate vaccines?

abozzz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657487#Comment_121657487

You don't have any alternatives then.

What you do have in abundance are weak attempts to categorise people so as to obfuscate real issues and real questions.

It's easy to catch some people out, make no mistake, but this type of defence against reality is old hat. It's weak and worthless.

If you can come up with an alternative to depopulation that doesn't repeat the same tired, provably ineffective ideas we've all heard for years, then you're just standing in the way of progress.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657498#Comment_121657498

Depopulation isnt going to happen.

And even if it did, and all the migrants were booted out of Ireland, well then all the irish living overseas would need to return, as they are migrants also you know.

Which means you've just expanded your population, not reduced it.

Nice work.

abozzz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657506#Comment_121657506

So you have no alternatives.

Years upon years in the making of multiple capacity crises due to mass migration, years and years to think it over, years to contemplate it, to analyse it, to form a single constructive thought.

And you've essentially come up with "let's do that again"

No thanks, the future isn't built on failed ideas. And it certainly isn't built on repeating failed ideas ad infinitum.

Reducing the population in a thoughtful and effective manner over a set period of time is easily achievable. The only questions of merit to ask are who is preventing it, and the less mysterious question of why.

Nobody is fixing this housing crisis without addressing mass migration.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657522#Comment_121657522

You arent talking about managing migration though, you are tallking about abolishing it altogether.

Which, as I pointed out, means 1.5 million plus returning irish that will result in a greater population than what we have currently.

I dont say there isnt a case for managing migration. But abolishing it is simply for the birds and rightfully so.

It is never going to happen.

Managed migration is required to fill skills gaps in any economy. It benefits all of us.

abozzz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657531#Comment_121657531

Never say never.

Especially not in a finite world thin on patience.

Hands up who envisaged, 20 years ago, mass migration into Ireland at such scale they would be filling hotels with them and closing oap homes to fit them and housing crises because of it and vulture funds and protests and burning and not enough of anything etc.

In other words, things change. And they'll change again if there's an iota of intelligence left in the place.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657534#Comment_121657534

We can absolutey say never!

But to humour your fairy tale, How would you deal with the 1.5 million returning irish that have boosted your population and levels of homelessness, in your economic plan?

abozzz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657540#Comment_121657540

I don't let hypothetical problems stop me from solving real problems.

Nobody is solving this housing crisis without addressing mass migration as the driver.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657543#Comment_121657543

You said reverse all migration, not stop mass migration.

Thats two very different things.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656933#Comment_121656933

I never said "mass immigration is the anwser"

No idea if people can't return. That's a pity if they can't. But I made a comment about people who have returned.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121643400#Comment_121643400

Spend the money and build the houses. Where they can't build it, sell it to those who can. They didn't do that during the last decade because the idiot councillors, most of them from left-wing parties actually objected to their own developments.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/oscar-traynor-1106970

One example of many idiotic decisions taken by Dublin City Council developers.

Collect the rent owed and spend it on refurbishment.

Raise the LPT and use the money on refurbishment.

€292m unspent on housing, a disgrace. Let's face it, their own officials didn't agree with the idiotic left-wing approach during the last decade, neither did the Government or their officials, the people were left without any new social housing thanks to their policies and all you do is make excuses for the Council's incompetence.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121648020#Comment_121648020

The fact of the unspent money shows that the support for the Council was there. Until you give an explanation of why the Council was so incompetent and had to give the money back, your thoughts hold zero relevance.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658016#Comment_121658016

Don't expect an answer.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658078#Comment_121658078

Some blustering maybe, but the facts are clear.

The Government gave DCC money to build social housing, DCC didn't spend it, DCC have questions to answer.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658137#Comment_121658137

It was a campaign for years by Sinn fein to make the housing crisis worse and worse. We have seen at every opportunity they have either blocked housing or when they had the chance to build they didn't.

Now we are been told the best people to fix the issue is Sinn Fein.

It was telling that Sinn Fein deleted the article off their website announcing their win and taking control over DCC, on the article saying how they would build houses and that is why they got voted in.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656698#Comment_121656698

But again, not all immigrants to Ireland are the same. Its a very Twitter-y method of debate to say you have to be either for or against all migration.

How many doctors and nurses in Irish hospitals arrived here as asylum seekers? Almost none, they all arrive here legally with visas - because they have the qualifications to entitle them to this.

Its perfectly logically consistent to want to both severely limit the number of very expensive to the state asylum seekers we take in as a country, while expanding the number of essential worker immigrants (doctors, nurses etc) we take in that actually benefit the country and its people.

We're in the midst of the worst housing crisis in the history of the Irish state. There quite literally aren't enough houses for people. Theres nothing wrong with prioritising the people who're best for the country to take in and house.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658858#Comment_121658858

Do you ever pause to think about why if things are so bad in Ireland as you and the other cheerleaders imagine, that so many people want to come to Ireland?