"average Dublin house prices should fall to ‘the €300,000 mark" according to Many Lou McD.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121670206#Comment_121670206

To be fair when i started out my career I rented a shared room in a house, then i rented a single room for a couple of years. Then rented with my partner. Now that we are engaged and we are both making more money we were planning on moving to our own apartment to rent but instead we have saved up enough money and are now buying. The wedding can come later.

People dont just start their career and on day one have enough money to buy a place of their own.

If I was a nurse or a garda starting on €35k I would be renting a single room share and collecting the rental credit til i earned more. If i couldnt earn more in that job i would switch to a better career where i could.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121689093#Comment_121689093

I was answering the other posters points / comments / questions about immigration, welfare.

In some areas , 30 to 50% of hotel spaces are taken with immigrants, paid by the government. This has a knock on effect on the economy. Also, it increased the demand - and prices - for air b'n b, so you find some properties being taken out of the normal rental market and doing air b'n b for tourists instead : tourists who would otherwise have gone to the hotels.

Many things have unintended consequences.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121689172#Comment_121689172

That's how the rest of us did, but the current crop seem to think that they are entitled to a 3 bed semi in a nice part of Dublin just out of college.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121688717#Comment_121688717

Not all migrants are created equal. Its a deliberate political tactic to lump them all under the one umbrella as beneficial financially, but in reality there are huge differences in the impact different nationalities have on the Irish economy.

If you set the very real housing crisis aside the unemployment rate for French or Swedish immigrants for example, at under 7% in the last CSO statistics from 2016, would agree fully with you. They do add to the economy.

With an unemployment rate of 63% for Congolese, 45% for Saudi Arabians, or 43% for Nigerian immigrants they most certainly aren't helping the economy - they're a massive financial drain.

Its completely logical and reasonable to be in favour of letting in more migrants who actually work here, while being against letting in those who don't. Especially during this housing crisis.

The 20k a year asylum seekers, by and large, are almost all in the latter not financially beneficial to the state camp. People entering the country with essential skills, like Philipino nurses or Indian workers in the tech sector, get visas to come here legally. Nobody is calling for a clamp down on them.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121688926#Comment_121688926

Lots of Irish people on social welfare with houses handed to them, big SUVs and annual holidays in the Canaries. It is not about the immigrants.

Cheddar Bob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121690689#Comment_121690689

Aside from those involved in organised crime, who run the constant risk of having their assets seized off them, exactly how many Irish people do you know who are on social welfare who are going about driving gas guzzling SUV's?

Honestly.

Even gangsters who drive SUV's are not generally on the dole, to justify their expenses they usually have to claim they have some sort of day job, typically in construction, taxi driving, 2nd hand cars, dog/ race pigeon breeding, or that the missus runs some sort of successful cash business (hair, beauty, dog grooming)

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691127#Comment_121691127

I remember a few years back, before we had kids at school we done a Lanzarote holiday at school time. really cheap.

Anyway on way back a huge group with kids etc. We got delayed so had to hang around for a few hours, they hit the bar. From what was been said because it wasn't quiet. None of them had jobs, they did it yearly to Lanzarote in Jan when flights are cheap. Biggest concern was not having the kids in school but sure nothing would be done.

From living in an area close to a social area in Dublin, most will have side jobs. A lot will do child minding etc for cash in hand. As one lady said to me once, its not really a secret but the government don't want to shut them down as trying to find spot for children would be impossible.

When you see all the "man in a white van" and "rubbish collection" you know thats side jobs

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121689267#Comment_121689267

Removing all the migrants would have 0 impact on FDI?

Try hiring in IT at the moment and come back to us.

"direct threat to our culture" Ah, you are one of them. 'nuff said, no point in trying logic against a zealot.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121689359#Comment_121689359

Of the 1,009 Congolese in Ireland in April 2016, 527 persons were in the labour force and 333 were unemployed giving them an unemployment rate of 63.2 per cent, the highest of any group.

Yeah, those 333 Congolese in 2016 are really crippling us. Almost as bad as the 500 odd Saudi Arabians.

Think of the thousands of unemployed Irish being held back be these 833 selfish bastards.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691719#Comment_121691719

They were two example nationalities. Some individual countries might be relatively small numbers, but they all add up quickly. I also see you've deliberately ignored the third nationality I mentioned, Nigerians, to make your point. The 21,000 Nigerian people (with a 43% unemployment rate) don't suit your narrative? Or the 15,000 Pakistani people, with an unemployment rate of 34%?

We have literally tens of thousands of non-Irish nationals unemployed here, adding nothing to the state, being a large financial drain, and taking up housing. What benefit are they to the state during a housing crisis, when every house is needed?

As of 2017 (and these figures have only climbed since) 32% of the Dublin City council housing list was foreign born. 35% of the South Dublin council housing list was foreign born. Fingal county council stop releasing figures on this when it hit 50% foreign born in 2011, but its undoubtedly higher now.

How is that reasonable, the Irish state spending huge amounts of tax payer euros to house large numbers of immigrants? And even worse, doing so when there are 15,000 homeless Irish people, including 5000 Irish children?

80% of the Irish population wants a reduction in asylum seekers. And according to the Irish Times poll today its now the #1 issue for Irish voters. For just these reasons. Anyone (and apparently almost everyone) can see we need to reduce numbers admitted dramatically until the housing crisis is resolved.

The 20,000 asylum seekers forecast to arrive in Ireland in 2024 will require almost 8,000 housing units just to house them. And billions of euros. Thats a huge percentange of our housing output, that we could very easily re-allocate elsewhere if we just controlled the border.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691847#Comment_121691847

Long way to go until you get to the 136K Unemployed Irish, who don't have to struggle with moving to a foreign country and learning a new language all while trying to find employment.

But yeah, the 10's of thousands are holding the 136K thousand back.

You stick to your big, bad foreigner narrative.

More than half of every nationality you cared to mention are contributing to the welfare of those 136K unemployed Irish.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691948#Comment_121691948

Who said anything about holding anyone back?

I've made three points:

• We have tens of thousands of non-Irish nationals arriving illegally every year, large numbers of whom aren't working (ie, costing the state money).
• Those tens of thousands of non-Irish nationals are also occupying thousands of Irish houses every year (projected to be circa 8,000 in 2024 alone), at a time of the worst housing crisis in the history of the state, when we have no houses to spare.
• The Irish state is also granting very large numbers of non-Irish nationals social housing, at a time when thousands of Irish people are homeless.

All at a cost of billions of euros to Irish tax payers, many of whom are suffering from the cost of living crisis.

Why should we continue doing this, when its making the quality of life worse for every Irish person?

Denmark has shown its completely possible to be in the EU, to follow our "legal obligations", and yet reduce the numbers of asylum seekers by 90%. By just actually controlling your borders.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691847#Comment_121691847

It's quite revealing that when it comes to the housing list you concentrate your blame on the minority but when it comes to the 'homeless' figures suddenly they are all Irish.

I assume you extend your Mrs Lovejoying to children in sheltered accommodation who are non Irish as well?

Sarcozies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691948#Comment_121691948

You can say there are 136,000 unemployed Irish people or you could say Ireland has a 4.8% unemployment rate i.e 95.2% of Irish people are working. The other poster is showing nationalities here that have sub 50% employment rates, some even below 40%.

You can try obfuscate all you want but percentages and per capita are important.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121692207#Comment_121692207

95.2% of Irish people are quite obviously not working.

The CSO does not break down to the level of every country, but the highest unemployment rate is "no citizenship" at 18.4% followed by "Africa" at 15.4% (a stonking 3211 people in total I might add).

Not working is not the same as unemployed.

Sarcozies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121692231#Comment_121692231

Are you saying the CSO is lying that Ireland has an unemployment rate of 4.8%?

It's unfortunate they don't break it down by country. I bet it varies widely country to country. Even just as an average, it would mean Africans as a whole have 3x the unemployment rate of Irish people.

What is no citizenship do you know?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121692269#Comment_121692269

I'm saying plenty of people not working are not counted as unemployed. Not working and unemployed are not the same thing. Husbands/Wives who choose to stay at home with family are not unemployed, they are just not working.

There are 3211 people of African nationality unemployed. It would literally be impossible for 21,000 Nigerian people to have a 43% unemployment rate.

I do not know what "no citizenship" is no. Potentially refugees who have lost their prior citizenship.

Sarcozies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121692284#Comment_121692284

Yes obviously. That's how countries calculate the unemployment rate. They're not going to count children and people with disabilities. Ireland is currently at 4.8%. You've stated no citizenship and Africa are at 3-4 times this (and if they did release it per country there would be ones there that are 6,7,8+ times that amount.

Also, imagine arriving at a country seeking refuge and when they take you in and ask where you are from saying "nowhere".

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121692316#Comment_121692316

They are also not going to count people who simply aren't trying to find work, like some spouses. They are also clearly not at this utterly ridiculous 40 odd% that another poster is claiming though, especially not 43% of 21k people. They haven't a clue how unemployment figures are calculated clearly.

It is not that surprising that immigrants have a higher unemployment rate. Often this will also be a case of family members trying to find work and failing. The unemployment rate for foreigner spouses in Switzerland is quite poor for this reason for example.

Also, imagine arriving at a country seeking refuge and when they take you in and ask where you are from saying "nowhere".

I know no details, but one plausible scenario here is that they simply had their citizenship stripped by nations who care not for international law against such things.

Sarcozies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121692356#Comment_121692356

Fair enough. I didn't feel the need to state they don't count people who can't and don't want to work in the unemployment rate.

I agree that it could be expected some immigrants will find it hard to find work. I also expect the rate of unemployment between different countries to vary drastically. 3-5x the native unemployment rate is alarming going by your figures.

I think your plausible scenario probably happens but I imagine the majority of asylum seekers that we state have no citizenship here have not had their citizenship stripped. I could be wrong. It's part of the problem with how the government release information on these topics. That data could be a lot clearer with better context.

downthemiddle

Can anyone explain to me what the Congolese have to do with Mary Lou pulling a housing figure out of her backside?

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121692231#Comment_121692231

The CSO quite literally breaks specifically unemployment (not "not working") rates down to the level of every country, thats where I pulled my figures directly from.

Including, as I quoted, unemployment rates of 63% for Congolese, 45% for Saudi Arabians, 43% for Nigerians, 34% for Pakistanis etc

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp11eoi/cp11eoi/lfnmfl/

Why would you even attempt to spread complete lies like that?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694498#Comment_121694498

Because I wasn't looking at the 2016 census because why would I? Multiple issues with this

1. The 2022 census does not break down the data in the same way, it does however mention that there are, in total, 3,211 people of African nationality unemployed. So clearly the unemployment rates mentioned from 2016 are woefully out of date.
2. They have not broken it down by every country, they have the highest and lowest rates, for a period 7 years ago when the State unemployment rate was 13%. Higher unemployment rates will generally disproportionately impact immigrants but we no longer have high unemployment rates.
3. You are, deliberately or ignorantly, giving the impression that 43% of 21,000 Nigerians are somehow on the Live Register when this is not true and not remotely how the figures are calculated. Many are students, domestic partners or not otherwise looking for employment.
4. A large number of those unemployed will be partners of employed persons
5. All of these numbers are tiny when compared to the scale of the actual problem with housing.

None of this is addressing the core problem with housing in Ireland and the inability of young (and increasingly middle aged) people to afford housing in Ireland has almost nothing to do with the number of Nigerian unemployed people. It is because we do not build enough, and have not been building anywhere near enough for the last decade at least. It is because people are living longer and staying in their family home. It is the same problem multiple other countries across the world are experiencing. 300 unemployed Congolese people in 2016 are not the problem!

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696279#Comment_121696279

You claimed "The CSO does not break down to the level of every country". I provided a link to the CSO doing exactly that.

You're trying to muddy the water by implying the figures are for "not working" (ie students, domestic partners etc). Which is not the case, the figures listed are explicitly for specifically unemployed (ie claiming welfare), as the CSO link shows in very clear language.

You were caught in your lie, you may as well admit it. Trying to say "it only shows the highest and lowest countries", or "the figures might have changed since" is a very transparent attempt at moving the goal posts.

We're taking in 20,000 asylum seekers a year, thats the equivalent of 8000 housing units a year being taken off the market. Out of the 32,000 or so we're building a year. Thats not "tiny" by any rational person's counting, thats a very significant percentage, 25%, of our total housing build.

The only people who claim adding 8000 extra housing units a year to our housing crisis will make no difference are either extremely mathematically challenged, or lying to forward an agenda. I'd assume in your case its the latter, given your prior lie about the CSO.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121697168#Comment_121697168

You claimed "The CSO does not break down to the level of every country". I provided a link to the CSO doing exactly that.

A) no you didn't, it was just a select few specific countries

B) they don't do even that in the most recent census, which for painfully obvious reasons is the one I was looking at

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121698587#Comment_121698587

🙄

The provided CSO statistics show very clearly, by nationality, how some countries of origin have absolutely terrible rates of employment in this country and are a financial drain on the state. While taking up tens of thousands of valuable housing units, at a time of acute shortage. The figures don't lie.

Its ok to just admit you were either wrong or lying.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121692207#Comment_121692207

Its the people who live in houses, not the percentages.

Sure they are important, but I care more that I need 30,000 houses than I need 4% houses tbh.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121699470#Comment_121699470

I was wrong to make the assumption that you were referring to recent statistics and not wildly out of date ones, yes.

Sarcozies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121699831#Comment_121699831

Do you think there would be a dramatic change in the figures from 2016 until now? If so, what do you think caused this?

I myself could see some percentage differences but I don't know why they would swing dramatically in 7 years.

I wonder why they stopped breaking it down by country?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121700274#Comment_121700274

General unemployment in 2016 in the census was 13% and is now about 4-5%, which is close to what would be termed full employment. Its a pretty fundamental change.

There is a break down by some countries, just not all. I assume they don't bother for total numbers below a certain level.