An increasing tendency to criticise people for doing things that are entirely legal.

Sunny Disposition

JP McManus manges his taxes as efficiently as he can, and then when he makes a hugely generous donation he gets slated by Joe Brolly. Robbie Keane has a job managing a soccer team in Israel, and the leader of a major political party feels she has the right to criticise him for doing so.

Why don't people criticise the lack of justice as they see it in the regulations in place, rather than those who act within those regulations? It's childish.

lbunnae

I think tbh it’s more childish to hold the view that everything legal is grand. People can form their own opinion on things that isn’t just legal equals good ,illegal equals bad.

Bobson Dugnutt

Noel Kelly managed to get a fantastic deal for his client, Ryan Tubridy. Strong negotiating skills. You’ve lot of pontificating armchair critics saying it was illegal and it should be handed back. As if anyone handed back money they were entitled to.

Donald Trump

How is this even a thread?

Dial Hard

Legal =/= morally or ethically sound.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519070#Comment_121519070

Makes no sense to me anyhow

Gregor Samsa

There's an element of begrudgery, maybe even jealousy, to it. "This person got something that I don't have, though means I didn't use. It's not fair, they must have done something bad, even though I can't put my finger on it".

We as a nation don't like success.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519215#Comment_121519215

The criticism of JP is particularly stupid. There’s almost no one in Ireland who pays more tax than they have to, even if they could afford to. And McManus doesn’t lecture us about what Ireland should be doing, unlike many others.

tom1ie

Maybe people should mind their own business and stop throwing opinions around left right and centre.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519621#Comment_121519621

Like you just did

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519621#Comment_121519621

On a discussion forum?

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519070#Comment_121519070

Says the poster responsible for 25% of the posts in said thread.

Montage of Feck

There's a new moral conservatism in town.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058327790/an-increasing-tendency-to-criticise-people-for-doing-things-that-are-entirely-legal

I was lambasted recently on a thread about “fair deal” for offering advice on succession planning to limit exposure to “fair deal”.

I was lambasted as the “tax payer would have to pick up the tab”.

I just lolled a little at their foolishness.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519681#Comment_121519681

No I mean in general.

Ever since social media everyone feels the need to comment on everything else whereas before we would t have heard most people’s comments.

Anyway it’s none of my business. 😂

HalloweenJack

The problem with JP McManus is some people see it as cynical PR, especially given he's invested a lot more in Limerick GAA (though I can't find out exactly how much he is put into Limerick GAA).

Robbie Keane is free to work wherever he wants but, given the ongoing situation, he shouldn't be surprised if he is being asked about who he works for and the reality of the situation there. I don't begrudge him work and I don't like that politics and sport mix but that horse has long bolted.

There is a simple argument here and others have mentioned it: what is legal is not always moral and what is illegal is not always immoral. Not everything is black and white.

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520787#Comment_121520787

Fair but when we as a country collect billions and billions of corporation tax from companies who have set up headquarters here due to our... Let's call it favourable tax regime can we really act so high and mighty at McManus for being tax resident in another country...

3DataModem

I've worked with public billionaires (2 in particular) and they have advisors telling them which "public charity" investments to make to manage their reputation in places they either live or have businesses in. In some cases it is purely cynical, in some cases there is real altruism. In this case, I'm sure it is a bit of both.

Jequ0n

It’s either envy or a welcome chance to pretend to be morally superior.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521002#Comment_121521002

It's had to be a mix of advisors and altruism

Jp didn't decide to invest a million each off the top of his head

Sunny Disposition

JP is a mad hurling man, I've often seen him at Thurles, his support for Limerick is obviously well known. I would imagine it was altruism, remember he made a donation to every club in the country when Limerick won the All Ireland in 2018. But even if it wasn't, so fcking what.

The criticism of a man's quite legal tax management is off the wall. Almost every person on the higher rate of tax could afford to pay a small bit more to the Exchequer if they wanted, of course no one does. There has been criticism of Bono's tax affairs, but I see that as being different because he has lectured the west on debt forgiveness. It's not that Bono is wrong, but he just doesn't have much credibility. McManus isn't a political figure.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519616#Comment_121519616

I don't think JP pays any tax in Ireland and hasn't done so for decades.

The issue with JP is that nobody is exactly sure how he made all his billions. There are lots of rumours.

Danzy

It's a much more righteous and hectoring country in some ways than it even was in the 1980s.

The angry clergy types are back and are very loud.

bucketybuck

I don't care about people who legally manage their taxes to their own benefit.

I do have an opinion on hypocrites that want to have their cake and eat it too.

Like lads who "love the community" but won't pay tax there, or who reduce income tax through charitable donations but pretend that those donations were 100% loss to them.

Want to pay less taxes? Grand, no problem with that. Just don't then turn around and pretend to be some great man of the people.

taratee

I fail to see the problem with either. JP can do what he wants with his money, once it's above board. The Robbie Keane comment is another odd, populist, outburst by Mary-Lou. Robbie Keane works for an Israeli company. The same can be said for thousands of Irish people, if not more, here in Ireland and around the world. I hope that SF are not suggesting the Irish people and organisations should stop doing business with Israeli companies or companies that have links to Israel.

Strumms

thing is about Keane. He’s not in Tel Aviv because he needs the work or the money.

He would have had other offers of employment and he is already a multimillionaire. His wealth is conservatively estimated to be over 35 million… the guy was a professional footballer for about 23 years give or take and right up to the end was scoring some very lucrative contracts with the likes of Liverpool, LA Galaxy… etc. he’s been coaching for a while too.

He is there because it pays well, the weather is good etc. He is there because it suits him. It’s completely legal.

Keane could easily have managed cutting his teeth in Serie B, top divisions in Austria, Denmark or wherever…..but he was made an offer, one he accepted…

personally considering the human rights record of Israel, I myself would not wish to travel there or contribute to its economy, be it as a holiday, or work etc…

What Keane is doing is absolutely legal, the case of it being moral is another days debate however…

Israel has been criticised extensively by …. The UN & Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and many other respected international bodies…

Robbie Keane, is not breaking any laws, however he is entitled to be criticised, or indeed supported.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121522129#Comment_121522129

They really are, being judgemental is probably more common and certainly explicit than was the case 40 years ago.

dxhound2005

I think this is a case of recency bias, prompted by the JP McManus story. It would need a lot of research to justify the statement that there is any increase in criticism of people doing legal things. Or that it is more common now than in other decades.

The McManus story could be compared to the Padraig Flynn story. He is a politician from the past who had three houses, one in Mayo, one in Dublin and one in Belgium. I don't think there was any illegality involved there, but he still got criticised. On the other hand some Irish people are and were forgiving of illegal activity. When Ben Dunne broke the law in Florida, he got a lot of sympathy. And that happened again after his recent death, when the illegal activity was referenced.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525970#Comment_121525970

Didn't he take a Fianna Fail check for 50k