Redundancy- Am I mad?

Adrift

Thanks a million, you’ve summarised far better than I could my current thought process.

I think the worst that could happen is the scenario where I’d be unemployed for a long time. But I’m reasonably confident I’ve enough contacts to get something relatively quickly if needs be.

The job do supply all that advice upon departure but I’ve also gotten a contact for a financial advisor independent of the company. If I end up taking it I’d see that advisor throughout the year.

For the course I want to take I’d qualify for back to education allowance. I realise it’s only a couple of hundred euros a week but it should cover my expenses getting to and from the university and some of my fees if I’m careful with it. I’d use the redundancy package to live off for the two years. In theory there should be something left by the time the course ends.

Im back in this week so should know over the first few weeks what’s going to happen

blackbox

If the OP has dependants, they should form part of the decision making.

It's very different to be looking for a job if people are depending on you.

Adrift

Yep, married with kids

wife 100% behind it

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551831#Comment_121551831

That's huge net. I would take that in a minute if I was in the same circumstances. Early 40s still have lots of options. You know the old saying don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Edit -its partly taxable still it is a very nice deal

CramCycle

The other issue here is, and a few have hinted at it, if they are offering you above and beyond statutory, it means that part of the business is winding down, it is bloated or someone in the finance team needs to shed weight quickly to either please investors or keep the wolf from the door. In all of these scenarios, I wouldn't say your job is at risk but it well could be and that also has to play a majoy factor in your descision. The fact that your partner is behind it 100% should be the push you need to accept it.

Adrift

Yeah the package is beyond what you’d get in most places. I’d say the place could have 5-10 years yet but they’re definitely trimming the fat. They cut an entire group last year that was doing much better than my own so there’s definitely a feeling of when will my number be called.

so it’s definitely factored into my thinking, better to go now early 40s than grind another 5 years out of the place and be on the cusp of 50

Larbre34

Too many people wait until they're retired to enjoy life.

And far too many of them get quite the shock when they up and die at 67.

Take the package, see a bit of the World. Then come back and do something you love, rather than something that merely pays the bills.

This Country is booming and will continue to for the next few decades. Make it work for you.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555526#Comment_121555526

Is there a practical aspect to doing this course or is it just personal interest?

Will it leave you in a better position than today if you come out of it in two years and have burned through a fair chunk of your redundancy

Start over paying your mortgage by as much as you can now and then when you leave the job clear loans and use the rest on mortgage. Bring that down to under 60 or 70k and you will be able to take your time job hunting. When you get a new job overpay the mortgage by 5k a year and you will be clear in 5 years max.

Adrift

Is there a practical aspect to doing this course or is it just personal interest?

I think so, it should leave me in a position where I’d be relatively easily employed. I’ve had some soft conversations with people in that line of work and the suggestion is there that I’d practically walk into a job.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558119#Comment_121558119

Do not pay off a mortgage with this sort of money that's financial madness.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558530#Comment_121558530

Why? If he pays off the mortgage early, using a chunk of his redundancy, then he likely doesn't need a 90k job if he is mortgage free.

I'm sure you'll tell me a mortgage is the cheapest debt he'll ever have. That's incorrect of course, no debt is the cheapest debt he will ever have.

OP take out your mortgage and what are your monthly expenses?

FWIW I think you'd be mad not to bite their hand off for the redundancy.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558562#Comment_121558562

It is the cheapest though. But sure look. You'd have someone blow 200k paying off the mortgage rather than taking say 50k and making more return on it than your mortgage interest.

Bizarrio

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558574#Comment_121558574

What is cheaper? Paying a mortgage repayment each month, or having no mortgage repayments each month?

I wouldn't necessarily throw the full 200k at it but I'd certainly play around with the figures of taking 100k off of the balance.

bucketybuck

I'm all for people going back to education, if you want to do a course then go and do it, life is too short for regrets.

But are you doing a course because you want to, or because you think it will help your career?

Because if its the latter then I would think about it very carefully and critically. You will be spending your redundancy package to get a big gap on your CV and some letters after your name that possibly mean a lot less than you think. I know I never gave a shite about degrees when I was hiring.

But if its a personal thing then more power to you.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121548241#Comment_121548241

Will the company support your education as an employee? If so, why not get your new qualifications before you leave?

Adrift

No the course will give me a different potentially more fulfilling career. It’d be less money to begin with but there’s things you can do to supplement income.

it’s that or soulless drifting in a job that I’ve long lost the love for, for the next 22 years listening to people talk about their pensions and retirement. Everyone there has an obnoxious amount of service and they all stay and give out about the place and take the money.

There has to be more to life

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558581#Comment_121558581

Gaining more interest each month is cheaper than paying down a low interest mortgage .

return guide

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058327954/redundancy-am-i-mad

I was made redundant 10 years ago in my mid 40s. Came as a shock, but the package paid off a lot of debt.

I set up my own company as i could not get a job with anything like the salary I was on.

Although it came great shock at the time and took about two years to get over, I now look back on it as the best decision my manager made.

Whatever you decide I hope it works out for you.

NewClareman

Imagine a major new project, where you work. Think of all that would be considered before it went ahead. Think of this decision as requiring the same level of attention. For your family this is probably the most important 'project' you will ever undertake - you need to identify all the pros and cons.

1. Try and think of the worst case scenario, maybe unemployed for a long period, how would you manage? I think the worst that could happen is the scenario where I’d be unemployed for a long time. But I’m reasonably confident I’ve enough contacts to get something relatively quickly if needs be.
   1. That would be the nightmare outcome, so you need to manage the risk. Can you talk to your contacts and have something lined up as a backstop? Look for definitive options, reasonably confident doesnt hack it. If it is on a low salary then you need to consider how you would live, while meeting your financial committments.
2. Many companies provide professional help with decision making. If not I recommend you see an independent financial advisor, as a minimum. The job do supply all that advice upon departure but I’ve also gotten a contact for a financial advisor independent of the company. If I end up taking it I’d see that advisor throughout the year.
   1. Providing advice on departure, or after, is much too late. You need advice to help you make the best decision, for you and your family, as to whether to opt for redundancy.
3. What supports are available while job hunting and/or retraining? For the course I want to take I’d qualify for back to education allowance. I realise it’s only a couple of hundred euros a week but it should cover my expenses getting to and from the university and some of my fees if I’m careful with it. I’d use the redundancy package to live off for the two years. In theory there should be something left by the time the course ends.
   1. If this is your plan, you need to dig into it in detail. Some Department of Social Protection (DSP) offices are very helpful if you give them some level of detail to work with. It's the same with education providers. When finished you should:
      1. be certain that you qualify for the course, and will be accepted by the course provider.
      2. understand the job prospects, for someone of your age and background. (Soft conversations mean little, people tell you what they think you want to hear. Talk to hiring managers or recruitment agencies.
      3. understand the financial implications (salary scales, pension, benefits...).
   2. If you are relying on the BTEA route, you could consider a part-time job to supplement your income. Now is the time to use your contacts to identify your options. A small income greatly reduces the risk of running out of money.
4. Yeah the package is beyond what you’d get in most places. I’d say the place could have 5-10 years yet but they’re definitely trimming the fat. They cut an entire group last year that was doing much better than my own so there’s definitely a feeling of when will my number be called. so ...it’s definitely factored into my thinking, better to go now early 40s than grind another 5 years out of the place and be on the cusp of 50.
   1. Most areas have been trimming fat. The fact that packages are genereous would indicate that they are not in financial difficulty. Ideally you'd try and get a steer as to whats going down. Often some area as being downsized with others being prioritised. If you're friendly with someone in management, they might guide you.
   2. Most companies are interested in staff ('resources') that are open to change and learning new skills. When reorganisation/downsizing happens there might be new internal opportunities to pursue. If you feel that grinding years out of the place is the real issue, why not put out some feelers?
   3. You are right about the challenges as you approach 50, recruitment to many positions is harder. However, some companies offer early retirement, at that age.

I hope my feedback is of some value to you and best wishes for the New Year.

Adrift

@NewClareman

Thanks for the in depth responses lots to consider there with some points that challenge my thought process

1. ”Most companies are interested in staff ('resources') that are open to change and learning new skills. When reorganisation/downsizing happens there might be new internal opportunities to pursue. If you feel that grinding years out of the place is the real issue, why not put out some feelers?”

Glad you mentioned the above. This has also been a factor in the package appealing to me. I’ve expressed interest in other roles in fact last year I applied for one, I heard on the back channels that my price tag was the stumbling block, this seems to be a recurring theme in the place. It seems like I’ve gotten whatever promotions I’ll ever get and it’ll prove difficult to move internally. There’s not many more moves upward either and competition would be fierce. I can only go for things if my heart is truly in it and it’s just not anymore as far as this line of work goes.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558268#Comment_121558268

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558747#Comment_121558747

That was what I was asking. Life is too short to stay in a role you don't like just because it pays better, but each person will have responsibilities that might constrain them to a certain degree.

I would see a difference between something that leverages off your previous experience in some way, vs going in at entry level again. You might not like going into an entry level role alongside a load of people 20 years younger than you and being at the bottom of the payscale.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558574#Comment_121558574

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558750#Comment_121558750

His tolerance for risk might be a lot less if he has responsibilities and not much income for the next year or two. You aren't going to be getting guaranteed return of 4X your mortgage rate.

Clareman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058327954/redundancy-am-i-mad

20 years service means there's a decent chance that you'll get 2 years salary, just think how long would you be waiting to save that? After that, you have a bit of a parachute in job seekers allowance, mightn't seem a lot now when you're getting 90k a year, but with 2 years salary in the bank paying the bills and €220 cash every week for about 6 months, it goes an awful long way, in fact you might even find yourself saving cash, if you don't have savings you might transfer to job benefit.

I havn't read the whole thread, but I have gone through something similar so my advice, early 40s and over 20 years expierence, I would guess you've never worked anywhere else, don't worry other places are just as good as you have now so don't worry about the job, with ~€200k lump sum a lot of the pressure is off so jump at it. But don't look at the €200k as a win, it's an investment, few things you have to do

• If you have credit card debt, clear it and close the account, destroy the account - say 10k
• If you have a car loan, clear it and don't even think of a new car - say 20k
• Open a Revolut account for the mortgage payment to come out of, load 3 years of payments and don't us it for anything else - say 70k
• Through work, do a deal to pay a years worth of health insurance - say 2k a year for 3 years, 6k
• Have a look at your electricity/gas/broadband bills for the last 2 years, double them and load them into another Revolut account, might cover you for the next 3 years - 10k
• Keep ~€100 a week in another revolut for stuff like birthdays, parties, crisis, after jobseekers ends you'll have to up this - €34k for 3 years

So, to be debt free and covering the mortgage, heat, electricity, broadband, health insurance, incidentials covered for 3 years is ~€150,000, out of €200,000 that'll leave you with €50,000 to "play" with. Now is your current job worth that?

Adrift

@Clareman

Thats another great take on it. It’s kind of along the lines of how I was thinking of proceeding and your estimate of debts isn’t too far off. Professionally I’ve never worked anywhere else.

Did you find another job relatively easy in your 40s? I’m leaning towards the course as I’ve indicated but taking it and having a bit of time off then looking for employment is also an option, it’s another massive decision because that’d be in similar line of work, I keep thinking it’d end in similar unhappiness.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558747#Comment_121558747

it’s that or soulless drifting in a job that I’ve long lost the love for, for the next 22 years

Reading that sentence, there are two outcomes here;

1) you take the package and give yourself a lovely buffer while you figure your next steps out

2) you end up quitting of your own accord in a year or two and get nothing.

There's no debate here. You have to do it.

Clareman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121560077#Comment_121560077

I took a few months off and found it relatively easy to get a job, I was very picky and got the job I wanted.

Personally I'm a MASSIVE advocate for Springboard, I'd say sign up for a course NOW and start it during work time, also start building your network, LinkedIn is you best friend

Adrift

Thanks a million!