Calf to beef thread

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563365#Comment_121563365

You had first winter costs of 150-200 euro for silage and a Kg of ration at grass+winter@85 euro

This gave you an overall wintering cosyt of nearly 250 euro ( you used the 200 for silage from my calculations to get to the 425 euro)

Even with good quality 30%DM silage I feel it would be hard to get beyond a euro a day feeding costs for weanlings Inc a kg of ration. Above 300kgs I be reluctant to feed ration.

130 would be a shortish winter, 160 longish. At a euro a day the cost would be 130-160 with an average winter costing 145 euro Inc ration

I expect to shave 20-40 off that with higher DM silage.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563720#Comment_121563720

Cattle need about 20 grams of minerals/100 kgs. If cattle are above 300 kgs I seldom feed them ration. At present to a lighter bunch I am feeding half a kg. Most inclusion rates are 3% max while many millers have it reduced to 2% so 20-30 grams in a kg of ration or 10-15 grams in a half kg.

A 250 kg weanling would need 50 grams per day. I try to make sure all cattle have adequate minerals& vits.

Buying form Dairygold at present at 21/25 kg bag.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563920#Comment_121563920

Is you silage good quality that you are feeding? When did you make it? In your purchased weanlings how much daily would you be hoping for them to put up while in the shed? By the way this is a great thread, great reading

funkey_monkey

What weight/age would you need to have them for finishers to pick up the baton?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563966#Comment_121563966

At present feeding first cut made around the 25th of May. Probably the best I ever made but would not get too hung up if it was 7-10 days later. Got it tested for free and it came up 78DMD/44%DM. I have some first cut left over from last years and I am nearlinto that.

Second cut was early August 72DMD/30%DM. Probably not be feeding that until March or maybe not at all.

I say 500 grams plus per day. I am trying to get my scales back working

EDIT We dosed them over the last couple of days the cattle in 10+ weeks have done a serious thrive considering a lot of them were squeezed since arriving in

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564061#Comment_121564061

I will finish them myself.

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564077#Comment_121564077

And for someone picking up drop calves to rear of buckets. What age weight to send to finishers?

KingPanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563239#Comment_121563239

You said, There is always value in small plainer and lighter weanlings at the back end and usually on into early February.

Just to clarify, you are saying if you have housing for them there will be value to be had, just pick them up before the rush of grass buyers comes in? Do you think there is more profit from the poorer stock bought doing the winter than the better stock? Do you have a Euro per kg figure that you look for?

older by the day

No matter what breed they are, you still have to feed them. Like my own, have the steps fallen off of this lads tractor

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564563#Comment_121564563

Steps are there alright. It looks like a fair heap of scrap.

Since you mentioned tractors, did the 6610 go ok for you?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564186#Comment_121564186

I finish nearly everything off grass. So most cattle are slaughtered at 28-30 months. Some go over the 30 months. There is always a couple that end up finished out of the shed most would probably be over 30 months.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564481#Comment_121564481

Will the better ones leave a higher margin I am not sure. Never bought expensive cattle. Up to this year I started buying early summer. I always find the earlier an animal is in the earlier off grass he is slaughtered and the bigger the margin.

In total we bought 11 of those light Friesians (I picked up 4 one day as well slightly heavier) with mart fees etc they probably cost around 2800 euro. If I bought 11 fancy 300 kg CHx I probably be parting with the bones of 9k+. Now I probably will not pick up as cheap in the next few weeks.

Usually when I was buying before Christmas I had a target of 2/kg for light coloured cattle ( He/AA), 1.5/kg for FR and 2.2 for nicer sucklers

If you can manage to keep your wintering costs sub a euro a day and gain 500+ grams a day( most of these sort of cattle will have a bit of it)

Taking it you can not get until April 1st assuming that they are onntge farm 100 days yours costs Inc dosing should be 100 euro( I be 20-30 less than that).

Take those light Friesians @220 euro and they weighted badly at 150kgs they be probably 220/230 kgs April 1sr costing me 300 euro. 70-80 euro will be grazing costs next summer and assuming they do 230 kgs at grass they be 450 at housing next November

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564599#Comment_121564599

Spring had cracked in the diesel pump so it was a cheap fix. Changed all the oils filters, new battery, lift pump, had to free out the breaks and lift was stuck up. But 1500 got her going perfect

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564771#Comment_121564771

Fair play to you. New back window and a few more essential bits and you’ll be right then!!

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563017#Comment_121563017

@Bass Reeves

my calves cost in the region of €550-€600. Cost of suckler is €700 so I won’t keep 2 calves for price of cow

my average steer kill out is 460-470kg. I’m thinking that the bucket lads would be in the region of 360-370 hence the €500 difference. Maybe I’m being disingenuous to the bucket lads and they’ll surprise me.

probably the biggest issue is the time spent on both. Cow/calf once calved, after a week there’s very little work with them. The bucket lads were being fed twice a day for the first 4-5 weeks and then once a day up to around 12 weeks I think. Then they were getting nuts for the rest of the summer. Now, I’ve never put a cost on my own time as I genuinely enjoy it all but I leave for work at 6:15am so on the weeks they were on twice daily feeding, I was up at 5:30am feeding them so not everyone’s cup of tea.

Probably won’t rear calves this year and if I need a few to bolster numbers I’ll buy a few light weanlings in late summer/early autumn.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564074#Comment_121564074

When was that ground reseeded that you cut the silage off? I’m aiming to cut better silage myself this year

charolais0153

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565489#Comment_121565489

Suckler cow 700? Id say it would be over 1000

youd keep 2 calf to beef units on same ground compared to a suckler calf to beef unit is what he meant I think

Farm365

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121556796#Comment_121556796

How do you find the red clover?

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121566115#Comment_121566115

Great job but takes managing

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567121#Comment_121567121

How so?

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567174#Comment_121567174

Needs loads of potash and sulphur,need to be wilted or you end up with bales of pea soup and needs to be cut at the correct stage or it ends up like bales of Ash plants...but if you get it right you will need no meal to supplement it to young stock over the winter and stock grow frames like nothing else when they are wintered on it

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567229#Comment_121567229

Interesting. Have seed for 8 acres to sow that never got done last year.

Assuming you dont tedd it out or cut with a conditioner mower how long wilt you typically leave (an almost impossible question given the variables 😀).

What are the signs that it’s the right stage to cut?

Water John

Mow red clover every five weeks, at 7 cm height, no conditioner.

Bass Reeves

Had Red Clover 8-10 years ago. Personally not a fan of it. It smothers tge grass within 3-4 years. Wilting is grand during the summer but hard in September or April/early May or a summer like last year.

You cannot graze in spring or Autumn.

Bass Reeves

These are the rags I bought during December not everyone's choice I know

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cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567644#Comment_121567644

you have a couple of light one that need to be put in a seperate pen

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567644#Comment_121567644

They are like myself when i came out of hospital a few years ago. Shook but the shape is there and plenty of food will have a broad back back.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567644#Comment_121567644

You're an optimist!

If it was anyone else bought them, I'd say they were cracked. But I'm sure you've the patience to get a twist out of them.

memorystick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567644#Comment_121567644

Super thriving stock. You’re farming to make money I see. What was the price range?

Anto_Meath

If they came in at the right money, which from following you @Bass Reeves I am sure they did then they will leave a nice twist. They are long term but nothing wrong with that once you have a system.

funkey_monkey

Do any of you weigh regularly. Or do you go by eye?

Got 4 LimX bullocks at 9 months averaging 260kg and 3 BBX averaging 275kg. That would be an ADG of 0.85kg/day. Should they be hitting 300kg at that weight or would only suckler calves be at that weight?

Also got 8 BBX heifers at 21 months averaging 380kg. There are a few that got pneumonia last year and they pull down the average. The top ones would average 420kg. I'd want to sell them at mart rather than run them on. What weight should I aim for selling them at or what plan would be best for them?

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568273#Comment_121568273

How many bags of milk replacer each did these Calfs get and how much meal are you giving them? When did you weigh them?

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568422#Comment_121568422

Bullocks are getting about 1.25kg of 16% blend daily. Heifers are now on close to 2kg of the same 16% blend daily.

Weighed last week.

Offhand can't remember how much milk they got - would be well over a bag each. Got just over 1kg of calf grower crunch daily over summer.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568458#Comment_121568458

Going by that they should be 330 kgs by the end of march,the lmx and 345 the bbx, that would be good weights

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567644#Comment_121567644

They look respectable for the money overall. There's a right black stirk on it and the limousine heifer. The Frx look straight sorts overall, it's hard to put a bundle together without an odd turkey. There's one wee FRx child of a lad sandwiched at the barrier in a few of the photos that I'd pull out into a pen where he'd have less competing to do.

If I wanted to be fully critical there's one black and white that I wouldn't rate at all but an odd one of them comes with the territory of Friesians. All in all I'd pass them at the money, you'll not know them a month after turnout.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567726#Comment_121567726

Maybe, however the small Friesians will push in anywhere. The softer ones I bought are actually struggling more than the lighter ones. Have not got another pen, mind you they have plenty of space IMO. The pen is nearly 16' square. I have plenty of room for the ration as I can feed back and front. They were finishing a bale last night and they only have access to silage along about 9-10' of the front barrier. They will not clean it tonight.

Last three bullocks going to the factory Friday. Ya that will make pen space available, however I be slow to unsettle this crowd. Will be trying to buy another 20 of similar type cattle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567760#Comment_121567760

Ya a load of lads have a mental block about waiting for your money but when you solve the 10-24 month mental block the money is coming in every year.

Cashflow is Vanity, Profit is Sanity

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567810#Comment_121567810

Not really it's all about time. They are 18 month cattle. 5-550 euro will finish them in my system

It never pays to breed a bad one it often pays to feed one.......John Shirley quote

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567880#Comment_121567880

I try not to buy cattle that you CAN gather money off ( in that you can go back to the mart to sell), I buy cattle that WILL gather money ( as in they will leave a profit).

There is a profit in cattle like that but it only really for one person. I try to be that person.

The lighter FR were 220, the heavier Fr ones with the two Sim I posted the price on this thread I think about 300 euro the Sim's were 400 ish. The HE a bit with 400, the black LM about 450 ( suckler bred 270 kgs I think), the Friesian with the nice red LM heifer 120 ( he got pneumonia over Christmas but has recovered, the red LM heifer 380-400 euro, she a good one 170 kgs ( I think) the day I bought her.

That is all off the top of my head was watching the final of the darts in the local.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567976#Comment_121567976

Ya longterm cattle. From the prices above I think they will leave a good twist.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568650#Comment_121568650

Good spotting you have an eye like myself and the young lad. The red LM heifer I bought along with a black AA heifer. The AA was a bit too strong for the the LM and the FR calf I was putting her up the Shute for an hour gone them a chance at the ration. However they were slow at the ration. She is gone into the heavier heifers aling with three Red HE tgT I bought for 580@310 kgs only 6-7 months on the cards. Needs must

The LM heifer is flying considering she is mostly only eating silage since she came in. The Fr calf is bringing her to the ration while he had the pneumonia she went off it again.

The black LM ( shirk I presume) was straight off a cow was a nutcase in the ring. He was about 280 kgs and cost 450. Has lost his bloom along with the soft FR's, he is squeezed now. He will be grand.

I often see the Ulster terms Rags are badly done young cattle ( I think). Shirk is avoid or neglected

What differences it from a rag

The B&W you do not rate is a HO, hexane in all right had weight and age. Probably paid a bit more than I would have liked( he is in the docket I posted a few weeks ago) I had got the two Sim's at ok money, bought another three after that at ok money

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568693#Comment_121568693

I can hold my own at stock, that's not to say I didn't make lots of mistakes along the way and will again.

Is there much of a difference in the single Frx lad at €120 and the group at €220? I'd like the black bullock especially at that money, he looks like he'll grow into a right one.

I'd have the same definition of a rag, a healthy backward store with potential. It's stirk not shirk, another Northern expression meaning a yearling bullock or heifer to the best of my knowledge. Fair play for putting up the pictures, I don't want to come across as being critical.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568725#Comment_121568725

A man who ever made a mistake never done nothing, you learn more from your mistakes than from other people's. Never mind criticism because of that.

The lad at 120 was a 3ish month old calf done well. He has a larger frame. He was a soft well done animal along with his two companions.

The 220 euro lads were hardier and have thrived from arrival considering they have been squeezed since. There age will finish them. He will probably leave more but will be there longer alo g with hus companions.

I never mind throwing up a few picture, some might think it arrogant but I look at it different. We are mostly sub 100 acre farmers here trying to work the system. It took me 10 years plus to start to finesse my system, hopefully I can save another lad a year or two.

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568756#Comment_121568756

There's only one way to learn imo and that's by doing. My father was never into farming much and therefore I had to and continue to figure it out for myself the majority of the time. I like seeing how stock turn out and comparing them to you're initial expectation.

I get what you mean about the Frx, the dearer bunch look to be stiffer sorts of lad's and will hit the ground running if given half a chance. The softer baby type ones can do the business too but need more minding to ensure success especially in the beginning.

memorystick

Fair play to you for giving photos and prices of very middle of the road cattle. My attitude would be if the previous lad is making nothing out of them then you probably will! I’ve hungry raw lads bought at handy money but after turning inside out.

I’d say lads are having second ideas about bucket feeding after reading this thread.

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568861#Comment_121568861

Always a twist in a system like bass's and can work well along with bucket rearing beef.

We buy dairy x stores around 400kg after we kill our own bucket reared calves 18-20 months.these usual double their money by late July/August in the factory.it works well as you aren't competing with the feedlot lads at the ring for stock around 400kg and they are gone off the farm before the bucket reared calves have much of a grass demand

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568756#Comment_121568756

That's why I am on here too ...no arrogance just showing others (who want to learn) what can be achieved.

If people are hell bent on sucklers or bucket feeding calves they better be prepared to do them well because if the don't they could be busy fools and then there is me and others who will take up where they left off. Its not about getting one up its just business.

I dont mind to say I got burnt starting out too and it hurt.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567644#Comment_121567644

Fair play to you Bass. Were you able to lease a bit of land to expand or did you purchase? Did you ever consider running a flock of sheep along with the cattle?

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569035#Comment_121569035

Are you finishing the 400kg ones off grass alone or plus concentrate?

Gudstock

Can anyone tell me roughly how many round bales of straw to an 8x4x3 bale please?

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569291#Comment_121569291

2.25 to 2.5 round. Tend to be be a touch more as they are packed better. Straw must be bone dry from the big squares as they can get a bit mouldy. If I have a choice its big squares. Less storage space easier to work with.

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569276#Comment_121569276

Depending on the type of stock and if we get drought conditions or not..aa and he stock usually don't need meal at the 26-28 month stage to finish once grass is well managed

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569221#Comment_121569221

ho would you define someone about not doing bucket fed Calfs right? Apart from not making money!

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569961#Comment_121569961

I don't get your question

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569961#Comment_121569961

Doing calves that don't hit weight targets..if your feb/march born calf isn't 230-250kg by the 1st of November you will struggle make much on them..that my opinion on my past 10 years rearing calves and bringing them to beef anyway.Maybe other find it different

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570273#Comment_121570273

Agree there can be little or no error with calves as they are unforgiving.