Calf to beef thread

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572826#Comment_121572826

March/April 22 HE/AA should be at least 450kgs. I bought Fr 22 bullocks off a dairy man in March this year @ 400 kgs but they were January/Feb...they hung 295kgs in November for me..but he is a good operator. The JAN/FEB calf is miles ahead from the get go.

'Seems like you're saying store sellers are either rearing over-aged cattle, meaning subpar farming practices. Or they are too stupid to realise what they have and should have finished the beast themselves.

So, basically the store market is a dud and paraphrasing yourself they aren't good farmers. Or maybe you can elaborate on what is a good store from a sellers pov.'

I think Bass has more than provided you with evidence of 'subpar farming practices'.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573069#Comment_121573069

Your right it’s hard to beat the early calf, I’m planning on buying maybe February Calfs this year, did you replace those fresians yet?

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573069#Comment_121573069

What did you pay for the Fr bullocks, what did they come into and what did they cost you. I’d guess €1000 to buy , €250 on costs and came into around €1400. Or am I a mile out?

Anto_Meath

If you have time to spend around a mart you will pick up value every day at it. There is always a few in every ring that for various reason don't make their true value. Colour, age for weight, test, movements, little bit wild looking, or a few lads just not concentrating. If you aren't fussy (which I am not & anyone doing calf to beef usually isn't) then you can make a nice turn on these type of cattle.

I run 20 suckler cows, I rear another 20 lads on buckets and I then spend a few winter nights & bank holiday Mondays at the Mart trying to pick up 15 -25 of these value cattle to match in size wise with what I have.

That way I have 55 - 65 beef cattle to sell every year. Anything R+ and ok movement wise usually goes to the Mart (most of the sucklers) as the Northern buyers give a premium for them. The rest go to the factory. Meal is fed for about 6 weeks prior to sale.

As a part time farmer with a young family it what works for me & thankfully it is paying. I am lucky in that the Mart is only over the road so I can tip over or watch on the laptop & if I only buy 1 animal it's no big deal getting it home.

The most profit is from the 350 -400 kg dairy cross cattle I buy. But it would take me to long to pick up 60 odd of these a year.

The next most profitable is the 20 suckler cows, but again been part time any more that 20 cows calving, AI'ing ect would be difficult.

The 20 bucket reared are work, it's like being a dairy farmer from March until June as you have feed them twice a day which takes the best part of an hour morning & evening, no matter how you are set up, between feeding, bedding and attending to the lads with scours. But what I find these are great for is getting the kids interested in the farm & i get to spend farming time with the kids. Can't have the kids around cows calving. Plus the reared calves are very quite & easy to manage and I find they keep the suckled reared cattle quite too.

But if I was a full time farmer & could spend days on end at marts or even be able to travel south a few times a year to where the dairy reared stock are more plentiful I wouldn't rear any calves on a bucket.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573156#Comment_121573156

I paid 800e for them .... I think those ones netted 1300 after charges. My costs were 250 ish from memory.

How I got them to 295kgs is something I'll keep to myself. They should have been pushing 310 but it was a bad year.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573091#Comment_121573091

I did with more expensive ones the same weight but that was the market this autumn.

Finty Lemon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573205#Comment_121573205

Not being smart but it shouldn't take an hour twice a day to feed and tend 20 calves on milk. Are there any ways you could streamline?

Are you using a batch feeder?

Group pens 2 x 10 calves

How are you heating water/mixing?

You could go once a day milk from weeks

Buy as one group from a farm, all in all out and feed over fewer weeks plus wean in batches.

Agree its the best way to get young ones interested.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572943#Comment_121572943

They were great prices but were the top of the market last year. Neighbour a single man that rears excellent cattle sold 610kg HE for 1300 euro and the same mart has light weights. If he had his Board Bia and slaughtered they have made 1530 at least when he sold in November.

I saw a good lot of 400-450 kg He&AA sold 950-1050 some sold even less. I taught it was enough for them

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572826#Comment_121572826

It not all about weight and age. There is a lot if cattle going through the mart unsqueezed and with horns. Why lads will not use the lamb rings on calves at less than 2weeks( well that is the official maximum age so we will use that ) or squeezed them in the autumn I do not know

Any lad rearing calves to 6-8 months and reselling is never going to make money and that goes for selling light yearlings or suckler bred stock less than 300kgs

The 3 soft calves I bought all went in as singles. They were badly marketed. First off two should definitely gone in togeather and if it had been me the light calf as well. He had another calf with half a tail he announced he had lost part of it but never announced when. If it had happened a month+ before I would have chanced him he was 240 kgs sold for 130 (I think) I should have chanced him anyway on hindsight. The amount of lads not willing to bunch cattle because there is 1-2 small ones is crazy.

The same with plain suclker stock. BIL is always putting cattle in singles or two's.

The lads around the ring share out a lot of them. It the same with cull dairy cows or Fr heifers that have not gone in calf lads insist on selling as single animals. The dealers around the ring share them out and I nip in for the odd heifer or one gone through the cow ring with no calf registered.

The 150 kg Friesians I bought should have been sold last September/October they probably have been no lighter( maybe even heavier) and would have made the same if not another 30-50 euro.

Look at @Siamsa Sessions after using the mart and finishing a few which will he do from now on.

Any lad rearing calf has to get weight on them the day is gone of rearing them and putting them in a haggard or Orchard until the after grass arrives in August. Actually most lads do the calf until 10-12 weeks ok it from that on the problem start to rear there head where they stop growing as lads have not got a paddocking system for them and do not dose them often enough

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573618#Comment_121573618

Fully agree,The first year at grass is the make or breaking of bucket calves.We run them ahead of the store cattle and ewes just letting them pick the nicer grass.Dung sampling is a big thing too because a worm burden will knock the socks clean off them

Anto_Meath

@Finty Lemon I have them in pens of 5 and feed them 5 at a time. Two pens been fed at the 1 time. I buy them mostly from my BIL at about 3 weeks old. So that why the aren't all coming in together. I have an electric undersink water heater in the shed so that works out fine.

If I was to invest it would be into an automatic feeder. But as I see calves as the least profitable venture on this farm the jury is out on weather or not its worth investing any much more money in it. I feel I would need to be rearing 60 plus calves a year to justify an automatic feeder.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573618#Comment_121573618

It was yourself @Bass Reeves and others on here that encouraged me to finish the cattle myself and sell directly to the factory. Thanks very much for what was very good advice (not the first time I got such advice from you!)

Any corner or span of a shed will do for rearing calves when you're starting off. It's the best way to trial any new venture - no big upfront investment and any mistakes you make are on a small scale. I started with 10 calves (alongside the sheep) in an old cubicle shed.

If you get on well with the small numbers of calves/cattle over the first 2-3 years, and you want to go up in numbers, that's when you need to have the right shed to rear the calves and winter the weanlings (and winter them as stores the following year, which will be the reality for a lot of dairy-cross cattle).

I'm at that stage now. I've carried 30 calves/cattle in the same cubicle shed (plus one new 4-span straw-bed shed) over the last 2 years but I'd need to invest €40-50k now to put up a decent slatted shed. It was that realisation that started me looking at milking cows. But that's another story.

My tuppence worth on making a few quid from bucket-fed calves is that you need to get them up in weights. Minimum of 500kg for heifers and 550kg for bullocks. If they have the right genetics and you manage them right so they do that before their 2nd winter, then great. If not, then you need a shed to house them. You're probably better going direct to the factory, but the mart might also be an option - as long as they are that weight.

You might make a few quid selling them at 450kg at different times of the year, but you might also make nothing. The safest thing is to get the weight on them and to set up whatever facilities you need to do that.

Finty Lemon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574013#Comment_121574013

100% no need for auto feeder. Are you feeding in buckets or a batch teat feeder?

2x10 in 2 batch teat feeders would have them done in 10mins plus bedding after

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574982#Comment_121574982

While I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying, I don’t think @Anto_Meath is talking about just the time to actually have the calves drink the milk.

For someone like Anto working off farm and feeding calves the time you need for that job starts when you get out of bed to put on your farm clothes and doesn’t end until you’re back in the house, hands and all washed and changed into your “off farm job” clothes.

Changing the clothes and washing the hands alone could take the ten mins. You have to walk/drive to get to and from the yard, open and close gates, and most importantly wash all the equipment after the calves drink.

if I had only 20 calves no way would I use 2 10 teat buckets because the washing time for the 2nd one would take longer than waiting for the 2nd batch of calves to drink from the first bucket after the first had finished.

At a minimum, to wash them buckets properly you need to rinse them in cold water, fill warm water with a bit of detergent/washing up liquid into it, use a brush to clean all around the bucket, squeeze a few pumps of water through each of the 10 teats to get the last of any milk out of them, brush all the teats with the warm water, empty that out and rinse all again with cold water.

All them little jobs add up and half an hour will pass by in a few mins!

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575083#Comment_121575083

While I don't disagree with what you are saying re. the time it takes to get ready to the when you get back in (it's something not considered by some) I'm not sure many are going to that level of washing, bedding etc in the morning anyway. We are a suckler system but I've covered bucket feeding for two neighbours and a relation when they would be away for a few days (though 2/3 are gone to auto feeders now).

Initially helped them a few times before doing it alone and morning feed in particular was a very lean operation. Mix the milk, feed it in 10 teat buckets, give a fairly quick hose down with cold water and squeeze to each teat. Top up nuts if needed and gone. No bedding or anything like that was done in the morning, in fact I know now with the auto feeders one visit a day is all they get sometimes talking to my cousin (occasionally if away for a day no visit). They all used to move to OAD feeding too as soon as possible.

Good planning makes a bit difference in my opinion, in any system.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575189#Comment_121575189

Yea there certainly wouldn’t be a need for bedding in the mornings alright but I was just making the point that there’s more to feeding the calves than just them drinking the milk.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575427#Comment_121575427

The workload will reduce from 2025 on when dairy farmers have to keep them to a minimum of four weeks.

Big difference between feeding 4 week old and two week old calves. I be reluctant to get an auto feeder for 20 because of that

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575483#Comment_121575483

I wonder how it will impact the bottom line on a calf to beef enterprise. As mentioned I am not the most experienced in dairy calf to beef economics but I have a reasonable grasp of it and I know the prices charged start to go up steeply enough the older the calf is.

Will it actually be adhered to is the other question, especially between farmers with a good working relationship - moving the calves a week early off the books and other such messing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575427#Comment_121575427

Fully agreed, the getting to/from the job is often more time consuming than the actual work.

Anto_Meath

Yes that's what I mean, when I am feeding calves the alarm goes off at 6 every morning where as if there was no calves it would be 7.

I tried feeding shine once a day a few years ago & I just wasn't happy with the results. I also like to split the meal into 2 feeds when the calves are young. 1 reason is they go eating the meal after drinking & that stops them sucking one another & the other is I like them to clear up all the meal as that stops the crows coming into the shed eating it.

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575483#Comment_121575483

Would you every think of going back rearing a few bass?

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573618#Comment_121573618

Good post as usual with a lot of detail

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575830#Comment_121575830

I find that in terms of workload there is no real difference between the calves and the cows, the biggest difference is that like my royal neighbour I'm also working and the workload is a lot more controllable. Yes I'm putting in an hour before and an hour and a half after work but I can manage that. I'm not worried about a cow calving at 3am or coming home and not knowing if the water bag is out 5 mins or 5 hours.

I agree the longer holding period is only going to be of benefit to anybody rearing calves. I intend to keep them on twice a day for two weeks only after getting them and have them on once a day milk by 7 weeks of age.

tractorporn

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These are the first bunch I've gone with. The 4 blues are still on once a day milk the rest are weaned.

Hope to get another 10 Angus heifer at the end of January and another 10 in Feb.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576028#Comment_121576028

Preferably not. But realistically it.may make more sense within 7+ years

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576830#Comment_121576830

Lovely calves. Best of luck with them.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576830#Comment_121576830

Are they Simmentals with the blues? Did they all come from the one herd?You have a great looking bunch of Calfs

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576922#Comment_121576922

Why do you think it may make more sense to go to rearing Calfs within 7 years?

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577255#Comment_121577255

Cos he’ll be on the pension and won’t need the money. 😂😂

Base price

I've been rearing dairy/dairy cross calves in large numbers for nearly forty years. Some things have changed over those years but principally the quality of the calves as dairy farmers moved away from pure British Friesian, the availability of vaccines, the withdrawal of Fulcin, etc. At the end of the day calf is a calf and needs to be well minded when you bring it onto your farm.

@DBK1 made the most valid point in all the posts that I have read so far on this thread regarding feeding calves on CMR and cleaning teat feeders. The lack of proper hygiene and draughts in a shed are going to effect young calves and that is where most problems start. We wash out the teat feeders every morning with hot water and washing up liquid to remove the fat deposits and draw the solution through the teats and wash around them. After the night time feed we do the same but then add bleach to sterlise the teats and leave it to sit overnight. If the weather is cold/frosty then you need to put your teat feeders into a shed so they don't freeze.

As I've previously posted we separate batches of incoming calves into a different shed which is in another yard, vaccinate them upon arrival with Rispoval RS+Pi3 intranasal and those batches don't move into the rearing sheds until we are happy that they are fit and healthy.

We rear large numbers of calves and the majority are sold weaned/off milk, vaccinated and dehorned to other farmers that buy them from us every year - basically they don't what the hassle of rearing them and the rest we rear to beef.

Edit to add - we only offer calves a calf pencil as the jackdaws/crows are not inclined to go for them as much as calf crunch/meal. We always give the calves Agrimin smartrace plus boluses and a oral dose of Bovicox once they are weaned and head out to grass.

Bass Reeves

A pen of yearling/stores

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tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577230#Comment_121577230

Thanks. I hope they are lucky.

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577245#Comment_121577245

Yeah 3 Simmentals 2 blues and a limmy in that bunch. I bought off a local lad here who deals a bit so they're not all from the same place but all the Simmentals are from the one farm and all the blues are from a farm in Meath.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577255#Comment_121577255

It will not be by choice. I think that a lot of middle of the road calf producers will move away from rearing calf or move to taking the animal all the way to slaughter.

There is a move as well to reduce movements and pay a bonus for this. The ABP advantage and the Kepak/Tirlan scheme.

Now hopefully I am wrong and the market will not move that way but I think it might.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576830#Comment_121576830

How is the peat bedding working out.

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579860#Comment_121579860

It's great especially when you read lads here talking about bedding every day, the peat is lasting from Saturday to Saturday with top ups and will need a full clean out after a month I'd reckon. This is my second year using it and I think I'll stick with it for as long as it's available I was quoted €48 a bale for straw during the week. The calves seem to like it and once you keep it dry it seems like a nice warm lie for the calves, you can see the hollows from where the calves lie every morning.

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581046#Comment_121581046

I'm just covering the whole pen with roughly an inch of peat every weekend. I hadn't thought of lifting out dung pats tbh I wouldn't have the time but it would definitely extended the life of the peat. I know @Reggie. uses peat for his calves too.

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121582598#Comment_121582598

Yeah I put in about 3 or 4 inches and at the back where they lie I put straw. rarely the straw gets mucked up as its kinda eaten but if it does I remove it. Just top up straw every day or so.

Everything passes through the straw to the peat that soaks it up. Peat lasts for the 10 weeks they are inside

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577549#Comment_121577549

I'm the same with the pencils as there is less waste.

I do once a day feeding and will never go back to twice a day. Serious difference in the calves that go on OAD.

on the feeders I wash out with water after each feed. Pull through the teats aswell when full of water but I don't mind leaving a little fat in it as I find it kinda gets the calves immune systems going being exposed to a little nastiness.

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634003#Comment_121634003

I gave €300/head for a batch of weaned BB heifers over the weekend.

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634121#Comment_121634121

That seems cheap, I've seen lads paying nearly that for 3 week old calves.

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634136#Comment_121634136

Yeah I was happy with it and they are decent calves in my eyes. I gave €400 for weaned Sim heifers before Christmas. I was going to rear 40 calves this year but I'm moving now to buying as many reared calves as I can get my hands on.

weatherbyfoxer

Anyone price milk replacer this year yet pallet prices? I got were as follows

Vitalac blue €52 per 20kg

Vitalac red €56 per 20kg

Grennans wonder thrive LB €45 20kg

Elvor performance €56 25kg

Mavrick €48 20kg

Shine OAD €60 20kg

What are people going with this year?..seems a massive variation in price

Siamsa Sessions

I still get a shiver when I hear someone talking about "weaned calves".

I bought 16 apparently weaned calves a few years ago. They were 7-8 weeks and had a shine on them.

It was only when I left them out of the trailer at home that I realised the seller's definition of "weaned" was "pulled from under the cow this morning"

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634295#Comment_121634295

Maybe confusing with another poster but are they organic cattle? and if so are they easy sourced?

ginger22

Think you made a mistake. The Vitalac comes in 25 Kg bags

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638146#Comment_121638146

I know but Im comparing price at 20kg as most others are in 20kg bags..elvor preformance is the same

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638535#Comment_121638535

It was a beginner mistake on my part. I’m assuming yourself and others buying weaned calves would check them out more than I did that time 😂

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121639216#Comment_121639216

Ask anyway - are they at least 8-10 weeks, how long off milk, are they eating ration/meal, are they content or bawling (coz they’re missing their milk).

Definitely ask a dealer. And try to see them in the pen at the mart if you’re buying there.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121639216#Comment_121639216

You'd be a lot better off to buy a few runners or weanlings. They'd be hard as nails compared to calves and you'll know what you have.

tractorporn

Buying at 10/12 weeks I have a guy sourcing them for me. Last Bach have all come from the same farm. I'm keeping them on once a day for another 2 weeks but they are eating over a kilo of meal a day along with hay and silage so ready for weaning. These are all dairy bred calves

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638107#Comment_121638107

No I removed the stock and 3/4 of the farm from organic this year only keeping the outblock organic for oats and red clover. I've no one at home and I've changed jobs so the cows weren't viable so they are heading to the mart tomorrow if anyone's buying. I have heard that they are going to allow organic milk replacer which will be a game changer in organics but I had my mind made up I was pulling out.