Atlantic 252 What happened?

squonk

Would that tight format work today? I remember enjoying it and, while different, Mike Moloney’s Music 1 Ireland rekindled my enthusiasm for personality driven programming. I’m talking about people skilled in radio presentation with a great on-air persona and/or a particular style of music they played that let you into their interests and taught you a few things about music. I’m not talking about Doireann, Ros etc who have a bajillion insta followers and got on air because of that. Maybe I’m going OT but those of us remember G Ryan’s Lambo incident which was completely fictional but made for great radio. Same with A252. Great presenters with funny names and cracking music you weren’t getting here at tge time, certainly listening to Clare FM and 2 FM. I remember going on college tours in the early 90s when I was in 4th year in secondary and A252 was the default station on the bus. I do think they were trying to be a bit different.

squonk

On another note. I don’t remember noticing the LW sound being particularly bad in the early 90s. The music made up for it. At the time there were still a lot of cars around with LW and MW and even the average FM radio hadn’t the greatest speakers. Most run of the mill Bluetooth speakers now are much better.

alzer100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759443#Comment_121759443

What if we look at it from this angle. The format used on Atlantic 252 was not much different and is accepted as the standard carried on local CHR/HotAC radio stations in the United States. THEY don't see it as "Old hat" so why should we? It's not an Ireland thing, it's a radio snobbery thing. We are definitely poorer because of that attitude IMO.

Tork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759481#Comment_121759481

The only thing it had going for it was that the signal was clear. But seriously, do you think it sounded better than any of the FM stations? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMhGhGY2XyE I wasn't listening to radio on anything fancy at the time but even so, a good FM signal was miles better than the dull mono of Atlantic 252. It only sounded half decent in the crap car stereos that were around at the time.

alzer100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758577#Comment_121758577

Enda Caldwell was station VO for Beat102103 from 2009-13 and hosted shows there in early '00s 2003/2004. He also presented the last show or slot on 252.

eastie17

Doesn’t Spin do some of this today, “12 Spin hits in a row”, very little chat or banter and when they do it’s fast and onto the next 12. My teenage kids love it and it’s the only radio station they’ll listen to over Spotify in the car. I don’t get a choice just get told the destination

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757433#Comment_121757433

Some nice shots of the studio in trim. Now a boring council office. also mentions a London studio.

http://txfeatures.mb21.co.uk/252/index.shtml

squonk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121760596#Comment_121760596

No, FM was definitely better quality but really what I’m trying to say is that we weren’t as picky about sound quality at that stage. 90% of my music collection was copied tapes from friends. Some were copies of copies so ropey really. The average little kitchen radio had tinny sounding little speakers even if it got FM. Things are way better these days and LW Definitely sounds poor but tbh I’d still listen in based on a quick listen to that clip. A lot of the draw was the music. And the format. I certainly wasn’t listening to FM on medium wave. You always aimed for the best Reception you could get.

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759443#Comment_121759443

It wasn't nine months! 1989-2002. Teamtalk which was allocated that frequency afterwards was 9 months!

Antenna

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121760596#Comment_121760596

not a hard and fast rule, but LW (& MW) audio quality was generally better on older dial-tuned(analog tuned) radios, than later radios with digital tuning (where it could often be quite muffled sounding)

In the early years of A252, there were plenty of older sets that sounded better on LW/MW still in use in cars and homes, but of course diminishing as time went on.

its_steve116

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121760631#Comment_121760631

*10

squonk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121760946#Comment_121760946

Something happened my keyboard. I was saying something about century. I think they lasted 9 months. They weeebt going at 252s pace but I do remember them being a breath of fresh air and sounding exciting but going from 2FM to having several alternatives was a huge change anyway at the time.

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761049#Comment_121761049

Century Radio: September 1989 to November 1991 - bit more than 9 months! It launched on Monday September 4th. Atlantic 252 got in just ahead on Friday September 1st.

ford fiesta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761600#Comment_121761600

Interesting. They certainly would have had the capacity to be based in the Radio Centre with 15 or so equipped studios there.

So did RTE / RTL have a lease on Mornington House, Trim - or did they own it ?

Tork

Where did the DJs live?

ford fiesta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761691#Comment_121761691

The UK DJs lived in Trim rental accomodation house shares and digs. I assume the Dublin born DJs such as Al Dunne and Dusty Rhodes commuted from Dublin.

alzer100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761739#Comment_121761739

The last batch of Djs lived in Clonee Co. Meath off the bypass.

At various times others lived in Maynooth in new apartments such as Pizzaman, Henry Owens.

John O'Hara stayed living in London and commuted towards the end although he did rent near Rathmoloyn in late 99 and through 00.

Some fully commuted in the early days like Dave Atkey, the luxy jocks, James Whale all flew over.

Yorkie commuted from Tullamore up and others from the area of county meath had a very short commute in to work like Emily and Rosie The Cleaning lady who lived across the road.

TheBMG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761600#Comment_121761600

I never heard that before. From what I know (from the RTE end of things) there was never any plan to locate the studios in Montrose.

The thinking was to have the studio out around Meath or North County Dublin because it would be easier for big name presenters coming to and from the airport.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121760596#Comment_121760596

I always remembered 252 being pitched up but that recording sounds slower than usual to my ears. Then again, that could have been the tape machine it was recorded or played back on.

Antenna

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121762595#Comment_121762595

Yes listened to bits of it and it does - just over 20 minutes in the voice of the late Henry Owens/Condon on a promo for a cash giveaway with Cadburys - his voice sounds 'slower' than correct speed.

alzer100

The Wellington Inn or "The Boot" is located next door to Mornington House and it was the location chosen for the station reunion in September 2009. Charlie Wolf and Tony West attended.

David Lee Stone contributed more than two weeks worth of shows on Atlantic 252 as did Cousin Matty and Cass Jones (ex Energy103, Wyvern and Radio Luxembourg) and again later as Camin Jones on Virgin 1215. David Lee Sone had connections far back to John Catlett from Laser 558 who wanted him on 252. Ill health and his untimely passing meant David's life and career was cruelly cut short in the early 1990s.

squonk

Is that Camin Jones the same person who ran Clare FM for a number of years by any chance? He also did an on air stint on the morning show covering local and national current affairs.

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121762808#Comment_121762808

Another Radio Luxembourg connection: Jeff Graham, one of the original presenters on Atlantic 252, went off to RL to take up the position of PD. He oversaw its move from Medium Wave to the Astra satellite.

alzer100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121762905#Comment_121762905

The Camin Jones you are referring to is ex RTE Radio, it is not the same Camin Jones.

alzer100

For those who maybe interested in Atlantic 252 tribute programs:

Listen to Atlantic 252 Tribute *33rd Anniversary Special* by Enda W. Caldwell on #SoundCloud

https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?show_artwork=true&visual=true&url=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F42049152#

Listen to Charlie Wolf who talks to Enda Caldwell In Trim, September 14th 2009 on Atlantic 252's 20th Anniversary by Enda W. Caldwell 3 on #SoundCloud

https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?show_artwork=true&visual=true&url=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F165739290#

Losty Dublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121762353#Comment_121762353

That's what I heard too; it was to allow for the celebs to get in and out of Dublin easier. Not that that was an issue for long after the investors quickly realised that spending £3,000+ for 3 hours of James Whale types wasn't such a sound use of valuable income.

As regards locating the mast, the massive spread of the stay cables and ground wires quickly eliminated Montrose and Beaumont as potential tx sites.

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121762808#Comment_121762808

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121762936#Comment_121762936

Re Radio Luxembourg, I forgot to mention Enda Caldwell, who went on to do a stint there some years later.

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761103#Comment_121761103

As far as I know, Mark Byrne is the only person that was involved with both Century Radio and Atlantic 252. He joined the latter in late 1991 after the closure of the former. There were a few people from Atlantic who turned up subsequently on Century's successor Radio Ireland/Today FM. They included Mark Byrne (again!), Nails Mahoney, Derek Flood ("Floodie") and Enda Caldwell.

TheBMG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121765749#Comment_121765749

John O’Hara too .. he was briefly with Century in about 1991 I think

ford fiesta

1990 was probably too late for a big LW station to start broadcasting.

Can you imagine if Atlantic 252 on LW started 10 years previously in 1980 ?

From an Irish listeners point of view - would the local and superpirates have been as successful ?

In the UK - would BBC Radio 1 and Laser 558 have been as successful ?

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121765749#Comment_121765749

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766371#Comment_121766371

Re Century, I forgot about John O'Hara's involvement there. That's two, so.

As regards Today FM, I have been reminded of some others from a reliable source:

Cliff Walker

Steven Cooper - hosted some cover shows

Producer Emily Owens from Atlantic 252, who was a "spinner" from '95 to Closedown, now is head of commercial production with Bauer IRL and Today FM.

alzer100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766389#Comment_121766389

I fully understand your point. But just looking at it from the point of view of how things worked out in reality. Radio Nova was the BIG thing, super innovative, it's sound of format and from a technical perspective was far superior to anything around Ireland at that time. So it's a hard one to call from an Irish listener point of view. Atlantic 252 first used the 'HotHits' format back in 1989. That particular format was brought to the attention of Robbie Robinson at Sunshine 101 by Bill Cunningham, who was a successful radio consultant. In 1980 and through up until the mid 80's Cunningham was working at KQKQ, Council Bluffs, Iowa iirc while also acting as a consultant for radio stations through his company based in Omaha, Nebraska. So apart from what was being offered from Radio Nova, we in Ireland didn't really experience a more aggressive CHR until 1986.

So Bill Cunningham pitched the idea to Robbie and Robbie went it, but that did not happen until July of that year and of course the rest is history. If Atlantic 252 had of come on air in say 1980, it's difficult to predict if the station would have been AS successful as it was regarding breaking into AND offering something unheard of to the UK market. Although Atlantic did go with a more AC type format from 1992 onwards, using the foundation of the HotHits format- style and presentation, it certainly contributed to giving the radio station mega listenership figures at that time. If it started in 1980? I wouldn't be so sure tbh.

Infoanon

A Big LW station was being planned in '00s and a LW rig was being stored in Surrey to take over the IOM 279 project !

The original idea for 'export radio ' was Novas 500kw LW project from Mosney , which then became the Exidy 738 project .

Nova clearly felt that their Dublin FM/MW station would be unaffected by a station aimed at the UK.

Technical issues which while resolvable, would have been expensive , resulted in Nova replacing Exidy.

What made things different in '89 and why A252 made an impact in Ireland was the lacklustre new independent stations and Atlantic effectively being the revival of the hugely successful Sunshine 101.

Would Atlantic have made an impact in the 80s? , probably not ,and even if it did the FM pirates would quickly adjust.

A252, 500kw by day , 100kw by night , was weak in London so Laser 558 wouldn't have been impacted , BBC potentially. The ILR'S in the UK were already taking a big hit from Nova and later Sunshine and Q - Their FM signals proving crystal clear along the west coast.

Re using the RTE studios - I doubt that would have been an option - this was also a joint venture with RTL , Dublin was never in the mix as a transmission site , and just to add that initially there was a FM link to the TX site.

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768865#Comment_121768865

When Atlantic 252 launched on the airwaves on September 1st 1989, most of the fledging new commercial stations had not started at that point. Only one had started in Dublin: Capital Radio (now FM104). Millennium Radio was gone. It gave Atlantic 252 a bit of a head start for Dublin and even more so outside of Dublin. It even beat Century Radio by a few days. But the "lacklustre new independent stations" point may well have been relevant when more were up and running (98FM arrived in November).

The subject of the superpirate Sunshine influence has been mentioned a number of times in this thread. I mentioned that there were a number of ex-Sunshine presenters on Atlantic 252, and it was also mentioned that there were a couple of ex-Q102/SuperQ presenters with Atlantic. I was thinking: what about the other two big name superpirates, i.e. Radio Nova and Energy 103? I can think of one each. Paul Kavanagh was actually on Radio Nova before his association with Sunshine, and Liam Coburn (Batman Gomez) was with Energy 103 before Q102. I cannot think of any more examples.

Tork

Even if Atlantic 252 had been on the go earlier in the 80s I think most of the Irish pirates would've come along anyway. I grew up outside Dublin so I never heard Nova or any of the other pirates there. But down the country where I was, the main pirate station was a less polished but remarkably similar version of the local station that succeeded it later on. In other words, along with pop music it aired plenty of céilí, country & Irish and showbands. I think they had a bit of local news too but that detail is a bit fuzzy in my mind now.

No matter how long the station had been running, I think it would've closed at the same time it did. It's one of those things that was good while it lasted but was then overtaken by something better. Also, LW started to disappear from consumer electronics. It wasn't on any of the Sony Walkmans I had in the 90s, nor was it on the double-deck I saved up for. If Google's image search is anything to go by, there was no LW on the radio in our family car. As I got older, the only place I consistently heard the station was on buses.

alzer100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768962#Comment_121768962

John O'Hara, a legend of Energy 103 evenings. He hosted Schools Out with Club Orange in 87-88. He also hosted breakfast on the station and other main shifts but is best remembered for Schools Out at Energy 103.

After South Coast Cork, Henry Owens later mid-mornings and then PD as well as MD of Atlantic 252, he was on Radio Nova in 1985 prior to doing middays with Q102 from 1986-1988 as well as Q's Top 40 Countdown at weekends and staying on as a jock for the reformatted Super-Q.

The late Henry Owens was Nova/Q/Super-102

ford fiesta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769166#Comment_121769166

Walkman's or Personal Stereos never had LW on this part of the world.

alzer100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769318#Comment_121769318

Earlier on in the thread, I posted a photo of a Sony ICF-SW1E. It's basically the size of a standard Walkman, it had a PLL digital tuner with SW and LW capability. It could receive Atlantic 252 even in Dartford! With high quality headphones I could listen to A252 on the move and the sound quality (although not FM) was pretty good. I paid 200 IRL for it back in 1991. But look, I am a nerd 🙂

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769290#Comment_121769290

Again, I forgot about John O'Hara! Now that I think of it, John O'Hara was also with Radio Nova. I did not know that Henry Owens did a stint with Nova.

ford fiesta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769773#Comment_121769773

Robin Banks was with Radio Nova (satellite) although he must have been quite young, as he was born in 1972

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769862#Comment_121769862

Radio Nova International - a different station, but another angle! Was Robin Banks the only person involved with satellite station Radio Nova International to turn up on Atlantic 252? Edit: I will answer my own question! David Lee Stone presented a few programs on RNI.

Losty Dublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769318#Comment_121769318

Apart from the Sony one my brother had? 🤫

Losty Dublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769862#Comment_121769862

There actually was another Robin Banks in the good old days.

Robin Adcroft was a TX engineer mate of Chris Cary back from the days of Caroline and RNI. Although not a natural DJ, he often found himself on air over the years. He worked with Cary setting up the original Nova, eventually being asked by Don Allen (Himself an ex comrade of the offshore scene.) to set up the powerful AM set up of Cork's ERI, a. He used Banks on air because it was his Grans surname, although he also worked on air as Roger Lane. Doubtless he would have appeared on air in Ireland during the 80's although I can't positively point to any such examples.

Coincidentally this Robin also worked on The Voice of Peace, a good 20 years before Christian Richardson appeared on it.

TheBMG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121780113#Comment_121780113

So the ‘original’ Robin Banks also used the name Roger Lane? But he wasn’t the ‘origina’l Roger Lane from Sunshine 101 .. no wonder 252 made everyone change their names so!

alzer100

Roger Latham from Sunshine 101 is nowadays on Christmas FM.

Robin Banks aka Christian Richardson is at HiFM in Muscat Oman where he hosts breakfast and is PD.

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121780113#Comment_121780113

So, both Robin Banks appeared on The Voice of Peace! I know that Laser was also represented on Atlantic 252.Was there any ex-Radio Caroline presenters involved with Atlantic 252?

TheBMG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781302#Comment_121781302

Keith York worked for Caroline AFAIK. there was a very strong Laser 558 presence! Charlie Wolf, Mary Ellen O’Brien, Andrew Turner, John Catlett.

Keith York, Robin Banks and Cliff Walker also did spells on the Voice of Peace.

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781345#Comment_121781345

I was referring to ex-Caroline on Atlantic 252. Was Keith York involved with Atlantic 252? Yeah, I mentioned the Laser 558 presence earlier, which also included David Lee Stone. John Catlett is a new name to me - good to know. I did not realise that Cliff Walker was ex-Voice of Peace - also good to know.

alzer100

MaryEllen O'Brien was never on board The M.V. Communicator. She worked at WEZF 92.9 "Star 92.9" in South Burlington, Vermont, prior to joining Atlantic 252.

Star is a "Class C" FM with 86,000watts ERP (there are hardly any Irish FM transmitters on the Island of Ireland with that kind of power output) and can be heard in 5 US States and in Canada due to its proximity to the US/Canadian Border. Jesse Brandon, Holly Michaels, Erin Kelly and Liz West were all Laser jocks but they nor any of the Laser ladies worked on Atlantic 252.

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781489#Comment_121781489

There are a number of different articles that refer to Mary Ellen O'Brien as being an ex-Laser jock, but it does look like they may well have been coming from a similar source with potentially the same mistake repeated.

Going back to the Sunshine 101 link, Peter Gibney, engineer for Sunshine as well as various other Dublin pirates, was one of the studio engineers for Atlantic 252.