Atlantic 252 What happened?

animalinside

I actually had no idea it was Irish until a few years ago when I looked it up online and was shocked. They never mentioned it that I heard. You also wouldn't really associate something novel and modern like a 24 hour popular music station with "attitude" broadcasting over the whole of Ireland and UK with Ireland.

The whole thing was absurd - music on longwave radio - I can only imagine what audio snobs must have thought of it, but it also kind of worked. There was no youtube and endless music tv channels back then, you had to take what you got.

ford fiesta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266551#Comment_122266551

Music on LW in 1989 was far from absurd

TheBMG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266780#Comment_122266780

Even in 1989 it was a risk. The IBA were beginning to let their heritage stations do AM/FM splits so 252 was always on borrowed time. UK radio system was finally opening up and once the Brits had some decent choice on FM it was game over for 252. They were a great station and had a great run.

would it work today? Think the Capitals, Hits, and Spins still do it tbh. Just not on LW and with less M People.

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266551#Comment_122266551

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266780#Comment_122266780

This topic of the relevance of long wave for a music station has been covered many times in relation to Atlantic 252 on other threads. Long Wave was still very much available at the time, including, crucially, car radios.

Likewise the fact that it was Irish based. It was in fact half-owned by RTE and half-owned by the owner of Radio Luxembourg. Their main target audience was indeed the UK, with a mixture of British, Irish and American presenters.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121747678#Comment_121747678

Tork

I was 13 in 1989 so Atlantic 252 was a breath of fresh air. I didn't care about the sound quality because it was still much better than anything else that was on offer at the time. The pirates had gone, leaving just 2FM if you wanted pop music. That was a very mixed bag at the time, because they still had Alan Corcoran playing Declan Nerney records on Saturday evenings and Gerry Ryan talking sh**e for 3 hours every morning. I'm sure both ticked boxes somewhere but neither would be of interest to a young person. It's worth remembering that your average teenager didn't have access to particularly good audio equipment either. Unless your folks had a nice stereo system, you were listening to your music on crappy radios, on cassettes or on primitive car radios. It was a station that could be picked up anywhere and you knew you'd be listening to your Top 40 favourites. I don't know how popular it was in the UK but it must've had some sort of audience. It's a radio station that was very much of its time but it was great when it was needed.

TheBMG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268192#Comment_122268192

plus lots of people still had LW/MW radios. Wasn’t there a luxury tax on FM car radios in Ireland at the time? Lot of cars over here used to have ‘paddy spec’ meaning absolutely no extras 😂

I got my first FM car radio in 1994 and was so relieved that I didn’t have to put up with 2FM anymore.

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268192#Comment_122268192

It is true that most of the pirates had closed down at the end of 1988, and that, in Dublin, RTE's Millennium Radio was gone by the end of May 1989. However, there were still a handful of pirates around the country in early 1989. In Dublin, Radio Dublin had not closed down and one or two others popped up during the year. I have to admit that I was blissfully unaware of the newer pirates at the time. I think I might have heard a station called CAU in late 1989. Also, in Dublin, Capital Radio had launched in July - the first of the new licensed commercial stations anywhere in Ireland. Atlantic 252 did manage to launch days before Century Radio, Ireland's first licenced national commercial station. Dublin's second licensed station 98FM arrived in November.

Having said all that, it was true that Atlantic 252 was a breath of fresh air at the time and that there was not much choice for pop music fans, especially outside Dublin, and, of course, it had the advantage at the time of being on long wave which could be picked up easily on radios around much of Ireland. Reception of Century Radio, which seemed to be aimed at an older audience, was variable around the country, and particularly if you were relying on Medium Wave.

Tork

There certainly were no pirates where I was living, and Century's reception was dire. I remember my mum trying to tune in on day 1 and getting a very crackly signal. When the local radio station started up, it was aimed at older people and you ran a high risk of hearing céilí or country & Irish if you tuned in. If you wanted your pop fix on FM you'd have to move the dial, repeatedly. Atlantic 252 was consistent in what it was offering.

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268741#Comment_122268741

I alluded to much of what you said in my previous post. Outside of Dublin and much of Ireland, the choice was very limited for pop fans during that period for the reasons you mentioned, and it was perfect timing for Atlantic 252. Of course, during the nineties, the landscape changed somewhat with more licensed stations coming on board (again, some were not aimed at the younger market), pirates on the increase again in at least some parts of Ireland, the arrival of community stations (albeit with mixed programming and the risk of C & W in some quarters!), increased access to FM and decreased access to long wave and, by the late nineties, the arrival of Century's successor Radio Ireland/Today FM with much better reception. Atlantic 252 certainly filled a gaping hole for its first year or two.

Tork

Ironically, if Atlantic 252 came back as a nationwide FM station now but still locked in its 90's timewarp, it might have an audience. Its original listeners are now in their forties and fifties and are poorly catered for by music radio outside of Dublin.

squonk

@Tork is spot on. I was a teenager during tge period of 1987-199: when things started to move in Irish radio. While a fair amount of cars had FM at that stage it wasn’t a given. I grew up on a farm and if there was a radio in a tractor it was a MW/LW unit with one crappy speaker. Until 1988 or so in rural areas you had 2FM and that was literally it. I don’t remember suddenly discovering A252 one day. It kind of seeped in to my listening repertoire. I’d forgotten that century started out with limited reception and it ton a while to fill in the blanks. 1989 bright local radio but out local station catered for everybody so there was side safe pop and not much else. Later in the mid 90s they did get one it tweet excellent DJs on board with very eclectic tastes but that wasn’t there yet.

For me, A252 came into its own arrived 1990-92. Doing farm work, you were’t always going to be best placed to pick up FM but LW came through loud and clear. The music choice was great too. They dipped into the US charts a big if I remember rightly so you were hearing stuff you wouldn’t hear on regular radio here. It seemed novel and exciting. Hard to imagine now with how connected the works has become but, apart from the big acts like Madonna, Michael Jackson etc, it could take months for music to be released over here that was shady doing well in the states.

After 1992 headed off to college in Dublin and listened to much less A252 as there was lots of choice in the Dublin market and pirates to listen to also. My tastes started to change too.

nonetheless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272877#Comment_122272877

"They dipped into the US charts a big if I remember rightly so you were hearing stuff you wouldn’t hear on regular radio here. It seemed novel and exciting"

"it could take months for music to be released over here that was shady doing well in the states"

And that's why it worked both in Ireland and the UK, irrespective of sound quality. It's initial format offered something unique, fresh and new to both territories albeit in Dublin folks would have been familiar with that type of approach to CHR having experienced The Red Hot Sound Of Sunshine 101 and Super-Q102.

Programmers in Ireland started to tweak and adjust that format to accommodate a more AC style sound mainly due to the success of 98FM in Dublin. That being said, Atlantic 252 had huge listenership figures in the UK under its AC leaning period post 1991.

Still today and it is with great sadness that I state that Dublin and Ireland is in badly need of a genuine, aggressive American style HotAC format with a CHR element.

Unfortunately today most of the programmers on our Irish radio stations wouldn't have a clue what I am talking about.

squonk

I’ll add also that after U2 broke the US in the mid to late 80s there was a huge upsurge in domestic groups like the Saw Doctors, Aslan, Something Happens, Cry Before Dawn etc. it was a very exciting time to be a music radio listener but our own commercial stations did the local content to death. They were/are all great bands and I love them but there’s only so many times you can hear them beside it got old and they were everywhere. A252 swept all that away. You heard pop top 40 and it was great. Just a bit of a break from the homegrown music revolution!

ford fiesta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275398#Comment_122275398

Aslan and The Sawdoctors got occasional plays on 252 !!

nonetheless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276480#Comment_122276480

Not during the 'HotHits' era iirc

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276480#Comment_122276480

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276689#Comment_122276689

I never knew (or maybe I forgot!) that Aslan and The Sawdoctors were played on A252. In fact, during the first few years, when I would have heard A252 the most, I cannot recall much, if any, Irish music on the station. it must have played some U2 as they were in the charts quite a bit during that period. Of course it's target audience was in the UK.

Tork

I remember Achtung Baby era U2 getting plenty of airplay at the time. Can't remember Aslan or the Sawdoctors being played but maybe the Irish DJs snuck some songs in.

nonetheless

Response to Declan A Walsh:

A252's initial 'HotHits' format was predominantly focused on US/UK current 'Power' plays mixed with recurrents. To make the playlist, the track would have had to satisfy a criteria. At that time and just taking U2 as an example, they had achieved two Billboard Hot 100 No 1 singles - With Or Without You and I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For, not to mention their chart success in the UK. Along with Where The Streets Have No Name, those tracks would have been played on rotation as recurrents on local CHR stations across the US. The same would apply to tracks released to CHR from Rattle and Hum. A252's 'HotHits' format was quite stringent and reflective of this.

nonetheless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278060#Comment_122278060

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278092#Comment_122278092

And the same would have applied to tracks released to CHR from Achtung Baby.

Declan A Walsh

One of the outliers in the music selection in its first year was Classic Rock Sunday, where a few presenters played classic rock. This was quite unique at that point in time on Irish radio.

Tribalcamp

There is a recording online of Al Dunne doing a 4-7pm Saturday afternoon show and he played the hothouse flowers.

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278265#Comment_122278265

Would it be Don't Go by any chance?

Tribalcamp

Yep

nonetheless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278265#Comment_122278265

The Hothouse Flowers' Don't Go made no 7 on the US modern rock charts and no 11 on the UK top 40.

Bobson Dugnutt

Don’t get the nostalgia for this at all. It had terrible sound quality, played generic chart music, and had a cast of very mediocre DJs who did links in that peculiar mid-Atlantic twang that was in vogue at the time. I was a teenager in the 90’s and it was seen as a very “naff” station. Real Smashie and Nicey vibes.

squonk

Yeah I kind of mentally left out u2 and Hothiuse Flowers as they had international hits. Irish domestic radio though was simply full of indigenous bands who, largely, didn’t make it internationally. They received a lot of AirPlay from the locals and the likes of 2FM so A252 was a breath of fresh air as the US content was very fresh. It’s worth mentioning that, besides our homegrown bands, late 80s/very early 90s radio featured a lot of Stock Aiken and Waterman. Focusing more on the big Brian hits gave a much fresher sound compared to all this. I listened to both formats but while travelling A252 was definitely a good listen.

Tork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278354#Comment_122278354

Haven't you read the thread? What sort of exotic and ultra-cool radio utopia were you living in at the time?

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278375#Comment_122278375

As discussed in previous posts, when A252 launched in September 1989, most of the locals had not started at that stage, so there was not much radio outlets for indigenous bands at that time. Neither of the two local Dublin stations, which did launch in 1989, played much of that kind of Irish music (Capital Radio, from July, and 98FM, from November). The national station Century Radio, which launched just after A252, probably played a little bit more with its specialist programmes. However, your point could well be relevant re local stations from 1990 on, when most came on board.

Bobson Dugnutt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278407#Comment_122278407

I tend not to read threads, no. I’ll read the topic, maybe skim down the last few posts. My point still stands though, 252 wasn’t a good station. It’s like getting nostalgic for badly insulated houses, VCR, and Upwardly Mobile.

nonetheless

Although A252 did not play Rockwell's 1984 hit Somebody's Watching Me iirc. The song does feel like quite relevant to me now.

Tribalcamp

@Bobson Dugnutt it's not rocket science, Imagine this time of the day on June 19th 1994, you are a teenager in rural Ireland, your choice of audio to listen to is Gareth O'Callaghan filling in for Gay Byrne/Pat Kenny on Radio 1, Larry Gogan playing oldies on his golden hour, Big Tom and Daniel O'Donnell records on the local station or "Today's hits nonstop" on Atlantic 252. Yes the post 1993 Atlantic djs were all naff but sure they only spoke every two hours.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278431#Comment_122278431

My memory of it was a station only listened to by some of the rougher usually female members of my class.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278441#Comment_122278441

Thankfully the choice was better in the city but anyone into their music was listening to tapes not radio except the odd pirate.

squonk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278427#Comment_122278427

Yeah, I’m coming from a pov of 1990 on which is when I ready started listening to A252. In a rural setting there really wasn’t much choice until about 1989 anyway when the independents came on steam.

ford fiesta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278060#Comment_122278060

"I uesta love her" (1990) and "Crazy World" (1994) were playlisted, though not on high rotation, on 252 at their time of release.

Bobson Dugnutt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278441#Comment_122278441

That timeline and location is very relevant to me. I do remember there being other choices though - mixtape scene, cd swaps, metal show with John Kenny, 2FM, Dave Fanning, music shows on Network 2.
I just associate 252 was lo-fi sound, Living Next Door to Alice, lads from BallyBogBrain pretending they were from NY, and just an overall amateur vibe.

Enda Caldwell

Hi @Bobson Dugnutt ballybogbrain eh, where exactly on a map is that? And was your Granny not from there too?

nonetheless

Well I don't ever recall A252 having Smokie (maybe Classic Rock Sunday?) on its regular programming playlist and there is absolutely nothing wrong with Trim, Co Meath.

Bobson Dugnutt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279131#Comment_122279131

Less of the personals please, Enda. BallyBogBrain was a light-hearted way of describing a town where some of the DJs might have emerged from. Lads who got behind the mike and started talking like they were from Brooklyn via Balkyhaunis. That lad Dusty Rhodes was mad for it. Then all you’d get was hours of New Kids on the Block and Kissed from a Rose by Seal. Complete shíte.

Tork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278431#Comment_122278431

If you bothered to read the thread, you would've read that people's nostalgia for it is nuanced.

squonk

Tge A252 DJs were far from country bumpkins finding themselves in front of a mic. Rick O’Shea, Dusty Rhodes etc went on to have great careers. It mightn’t have been to everyone’s taste but they were some of the best jocks in the business at that stage.

Enda Caldwell

(Rollseyes) @Bobson

TheBMG

@Enda Caldwell, can you tell us the difference between what 252 did 30 years ago and what Capital FM are doing these days?

To me its a variation of a theme? And I say that with someone who appreciated 252 back then.

nonetheless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279358#Comment_122279358

Z100 New York had their studio located in Seacusus, New Jersey which is a relatively small place but were broadcasting to major market.

Atlantic 252 was designed as a US Top 40 radio station with a US Top 40/CHR format, it wasn't to imitate, it was and managed to be that. Radio stations in Australia have done it as have radio stations in Europe such as 538 and some of the French radio stations have also adopted or have tailored that format. In Atlantic 252's case during its implementation of that format, 6-7 million people choosing it can't be wrong.

Declan A Walsh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279348#Comment_122279348

I don't recall Smokie on A252 either. I suspect that the re-released version of Living Next Door to Alice with Smokie and Roy Chubby Brown, which was out in the mid 1990s, probably got played as it was in the charts. Once I had access to FM on the car radio in 1994, I did not listen as much to the station after that. You definitely would not have heard Smokie on Classic Rock Sunday!!

Speak Now

Love child by sweet sensation is my 252 memory.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279639#Comment_122279639

Mine would be ‘Sweat (A La La La La Long)’ by Inner Circle and then ‘Baby I Love Your Way’ by Big Mountain. And, of course, hearing ‘I listen to long wave radio Atlantic 252’ in a northern English accent.

Was a great station, in its day. One that the popular kids in school, even in Dublin, would talk about down the back of the class.

nonetheless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279540#Comment_122279540

I don't listen to the radio station but Just from a music perspective, I for one can see that Capital FM's playlist of new music is predominantly reflective of the current UK Top 40 with an occasional US CHR contribution. Again, not offering any new music from the current US Adult Top 40 or CHR that could be considered as being exclusive.

TAFKAlawhec

My own memories of the station was that it was hugely popular (Tyrone/Fermanagh areas) in the early to mid 90's as there wasn't anything else close to its style of music & presentation. Yes it was somewhat repetitive in its playlist but that was part of its charm back then that likely wouldn't survive today - you were guaranteed chart hits when you tuned in. Talk of this being based on Sunshine 101 etc. is alien to those of us whom have no recalling of the Dublin 80's superpirates and what they were like, being targeted at the UK its influences were as much derived from Laser 558 etc. if not moreso than what had went on in Ireland before it. The alternatives locally were 2FM, which was tolerable much of the time (and the first to try if the radio you hadn't didn't have LW on it), BBC Radio 1 which was having an identity crises at this point in time (I couldn't see whom it was trying to appeal to - this got sorted out later in the 90's - also it wasn't available on FM here until '93), and Downtown which at the time was naff for anyone under 35-40. Sound quality of A252 wasn't a huge issue when much of the listening wasn't done on big feck-off hi-fi systems but rather on single-speaker trannies, boom boxes and simple car radios in noisy vehicles whose frequency response would be clipped at the high audio end anyway. However, it was a station of its time and the "comeback" being touted for parts of the UK on DAB is just a nostalgia cash-in - though it isn't the first and it won't be the last. the folks on the Digital Spy forum (in their classic form) are already picking holes apart on it!

Oh, and I did get to call in to A252 once and get on air one evening. I think it was Robin Banks that took my call, still remember the number - 010 353 463 6677, originally announced as "oh-one, oh-three-five-three…" to disguise it as if it was a London (01) number - once the IDD code in the UK changed from 010 to 00 in 1995 IIRC, it became harder to hide the number for UK listeners being an international one!

Enda Caldwell

BMG, I would like to but as you have alluded to in PM's we would always disagree on it.

The difference OTHERS in the industry have commented to myself when comparing 90s Longwave Radio Atlantic 252 to Capital FM of now or the since 2011 rollout is this: Personality.

Atlantic was big and loud, energetic with personality but they felt that Capital lacked somewhat in that department.

You mentioned Z100 not being as good now as "back then" well tell me what is? Its still streets ahead of its counterparts in The Uk and in IRL.

Stations now that have the "sound" of the old 252 are:

Radio 538 NL (has that big loud EHR coming from a ship on Northsea feeling) Cadena 100 in Spain (our Captain Kevin is Group PD) QMusic NL, Z100 *particularly Elvis Duran, Sirius XM 90S on 9, Australian Radio like Gold 104.3 Sydney, KIIS Sydney with Kyle + Jackie O, Riviera Monaco, HiFM Oman and So Radio - Robins stations, Halo UK Bam Bam's online station. Beat 106 Scotland is also a good listen its one of the more authentic reboots (because it was set up by a former part of station management)

Even the guys in the states still revere how good 538 sounds. Everything is carefully coded to beat and key match the jocks use drones and reverb on the mics, songs are pitched up, the processing is ramped up - they really know their audience well. And "embrace social media" but that does not equate to 2 "influencers" sat in a studio talking endlessly!!!

squonk

Two songs I remember exclusively from A252 are from around about 91. “Because I Love you” - Strvie B and “Where Does My Heart Beat Now” by Celina Dion. They had that Stevie B song on heavy rotation. It was the first I’d heard of Celina since she won the Eurovision in Dublin in 1988. I figured she must be doing alright post Eurovision. Little did we know what was in store. I don’t remember any of the regular FM stations playing eithrr of these at the time.