Meanwhile on the Roads...

Seth Brundle

The AA have created an inforgraphic on driver behaviour where they seem to have questioned drivers from fantasy-land…

https://www.theaa.ie/blog/road-safety-survey-2024/

magicbastarder

it's not April 1st, lads.

Mefistofelino

To paraphrase Blackadder :"Ah, yes, without question my favourite motorist surveys; soft, strong and thoroughly absorbent"

Paddigol

HA! I needed a good laugh this morning.

Mefistofelino

Motorists: We're wonderfully behaved and courteous.

Also motorists: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0927/1472239-intoxicated-driving/

knockoutned

I wonder what the chart would look like if it was based on observation and not on people pretending they are saints when on the road

Niall145

Just to change the subject a bit, is Cruagh Road heading up to the Viewpoint/Military road completely blocked off? According to Google Maps its closed till 30 November.

Enduro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122660193#Comment_122660193

It wasn't last Sunday, but the bit of Tibradden Road marked as closed does reflect the reality on the ground (and will be close for another few weeks, apparently)

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122658888#Comment_122658888

Courts/society really struggle with belligerent repeat offenders be they psychopathic cnuts or addicts or whatever( or Enoch).

A local man where I grew up killed a child on a bicycle. Got some Mickey mouse sentence, was out within weeks and just started driving.

He just kept pushing and the gardai just system yielded.

Alcoholics/drug addicts seem to get treated the same with shoplifting and the like, and it seems driving.

In fairness even a perfect criminal justice can't fix dysfunction in a society and ours is a long way from perfect

Wishbone Ash

Cyclist with a death wish between Balbriggan and Naul tonight cycling against the flow of traffic. That road isn't particularly pleasant even when cycling on the correct side. I was in the car and at first thought it was a pedestrian with a torch. I had to slow down to almost a stop as visibility was poor with the continuous flow of car headlights coming against me. (For those not familiar with it - busy rural road with no footpaths/hard shoulder).

flatty

Meh

Wildly Boaring

For the second time in my life i had a motorist stop to get out and yell abuse at me.

I was out for a nice spin on Saturday when i met a small blue car on "Pucky Lane" Garristown.

It's a small, grass down the middle rural road and the oncoming car did not slow down. So i pretty much stopped and pulled tight to the verge. I gave a shout as what i thought was a panicked elderly man drove past waaaay too close.

Anyway as we all know this type of scenario is not massively unusual in the countryside so i continued on my merry way.

About 3 or 4km later i was taking a left onto a side road with a car just behind me, so as i got onto the small road i checked and the car had followed me so i slowed and waved him through.

A little blue Mazda 2 drives past and then slams on in front with the passenger window open and a teenage boy in passenger seat. I genuinely thought i was going to be asked for directions.

What followed was an odd encounter. This man mid 50s or early 60s in awful sunglasses and a very red bald head jumped out to remonstrate because

1. I wasn't "sharing the road" when we met
2. I don't "own the road" no more than he does
3. I assume I hurt his feelings by shouting?

Anyway I say odd because he did in fairness seem to listen to my reasoning, for example, that i did indeed "share the road" but that it was very difficult when he was on my side driving straight at me. But then he went off on another rant about ownership of said road etc.

Anyway I told him he was obviously too stupid to argue with. He got back in his car. Did some more yelling past his embarrassed child. I retorted that he should F off and learn to drive his half a car, and we all lived happily after.

Christ…..

zell12

No longer a two car crash in Boyle, Roscommon, now the Indo says

Baseball72

"HILL STREET BLUES"

Why have Dublin City Council installed traffic lights at the junction of Hill Street and Parnell Street?

The stagged junction was fine and self-regulating between road users and pedestrians. Now, traffic backs up on all approaches causing unnecessary tailbacks. Also, why is there a 2 car parking bay on the left-hand side of Hill Street (as you drive up it) - it is blocking vehicles going up Hill Street in particular and this leads to cars on Parnell Street being blocked - and so on. Completely unnecessary.

Paddigol

Locations confirmed for new average speed cameras on two ‘high collision’ roads | Irish Independent

Progress at snail's pace. I can't get my head around why some things are made to be so complicated in this country, and others just get money thrown. "Need to install average speed cameras on roads? Oh, we'll need to think about it and conduct surveys and tests and reports before we can slowly start to roll that out." "Need a new bike shelter and security hut? Don't bore me with the details… €1.5m should cover you"

JMcL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122679126#Comment_122679126

I obviously misread the announcement in May as the actual roll-out. They'l be getting the Killkennyans back up by describing the N25 one as "Waterford", though If it were me, I'd be having it on the stretch between New Ross and Wexford. It's a road I'd be on reasonably regularly and the section earmarked doesn't usually strike me as as having excessive speed, whereas the NR/Wexford stretch I've rarely failed to see some example of excessive speed/aggressive/stupid driving. Maybe being a wider stretch of road means fewer crashes, or maybe it's a time of day thing.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122679516#Comment_122679516

The new ross road is mental for the auld speeding, routinely overtaken at cars doing 160kmph. I think the hard shoulder is the main reason more deadly crashes haven't occurred so it hides the behaviour.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122679634#Comment_122679634

Speaking of de country…

Elderly drivers face aggression and tail-gating on Kerry roads | Irish Independent

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692553#Comment_122692553

In fairness, I've only good things to say about the drivers in South Kerry and Beara peninsula. Phenomenal patience usually if I'm honest. Probably because they usually have so many tourists

zell12

Newstalk talking about distracting touchscreen consoles, drivers looking in awe at their laps, all novice drivers born with phones attached to hands, etc

Paddigol

The idea that we would do the right thing and tighten up regulation on fashion accessory supersized SUVs is fanciful…

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/12/monster-pickup-trucks-accelerate-europe-sales-rise-safety-fears

zell12

The judge said the van was “hiding” behind a wall near a church and a filling station, and he had spotted four motorists jamming on their breaks to avoid getting done by the speed camera. “The location is dangerous. It’s going to lead to accidents – not prevent them,” he declared.

Inspector Conor Madden said there had been a number of road accidents at that location which had resulted in serious injuries. But Judge Faughnan said the van was “shooting fish in a barrel” instead of slowing down traffic.

https://connachttribune.ie/hidden-speed-van-just-shooting-fish-in-a-barrel/

Why would motorists be ignoring the speed limit in a "dangerous location" anyway? 😕

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122707828#Comment_122707828

as its Newstalk, I assume cyclists are to blame in some way?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122711601#Comment_122711601

WTF like?

Am I naive to think that the judge's job is to enforce the law?

Citizen Six

Judges seem to be a particular type of danger to road safety.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122711736#Comment_122711736

I'm seriously tempted.

https://judicialcouncil.ie/make-a-complaint/

magicbastarder

don't bother. it's not a forum for people to complain about judgements.

Who may make a complaint?

1. a person who is directly affected by the alleged misconduct of a judge or

2. a person who witnessed the alleged misconduct of a judge.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122714177#Comment_122714177

You're probably right, and I did see the recent report about how only one judicial complaint was admissible last year, but

Isn't anyone who uses the roads directly affected by the misconduct of this judge?

magicbastarder

I strongly suspect what he did would not count as misconduct, not under the terms of the complaints process.

Paddigol

It's a valid discussion point. There's no doubt that speed vans cause speeding drivers to jump on the breaks… every time I pass one on the N11 after a certain bend in the road I'll end up undertaking drivers that had sped past me doing about 10kmph over the limit and then slowed to about 10kmph under the limit, all while sitting in the overtaking lane. It causes chaos at busy times of the day. That's not the fault of the law-enforcers, but it is a fact.

Then you have to consider how speed vans have been discredited by so many sources over the years that they are seen as almost anti-citizen… there to get you… a snitch on 4 wheels. When one was torched a few years back you had plenty saying that it was good enough for the speed vans.

You have the 'entrapment' defence.

You have the 'we can't invest in static speed cameras' mantra.

You have the 'we can't invest in average-speed cameras' mantra.

At every turn it seems impossible to get any meaningful action to combat speeding and phone use in cars.

It's easy to blame the legal system when you get the media publishing a story like that, but for me the blame lays squarely on the legislature. Successive governments across all parties have shown they don't really see road safety as an issue at all. Notice how all the hand wringing we saw at the start of the year has completely disappeared now that there's no stories and therefore no short-term political gain to be made?

JMcL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122714177#Comment_122714177

Plus:

Please note that a complaint made in relation to a judge's decision in proceedings before the judge is not admissible as a complaint.

This is beyond a joke. And am I right in saying that Mayo leads the dishonourable list for road deaths this year?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122718283#Comment_122718283

If only there was some way to avoid having to jump on the brakes when you see a speed van

Thelonious Monk

https://www.thejournal.ie/suspended-sentence-for-driver-who-ran-from-scene-of-crash-that-injured-passenger-of-other-car-6515000-Oct2024/

no licence, on drugs, hospitalises two men, runs from scene, breaks red lights… no jail

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122718632#Comment_122718632

There's plenty of drivers who are at or below the limit, and still jump on the brakes when they see a speed van.

There's quite often a Go Safe van parked at the location below at 08:00 in the morning. The limit is 80km/h and it's immediately after a roundabout. The distance from the roundabout means that with no traffic, someone would need to be accelerating extremely hard to reach 80 before passing the van. In regular rush hour traffic 80 is practically impossible there.

Still doesn't stop a significant percentage of drivers hitting their brakes when they see the van there - despite the fact that they are nowhere near breaching the limit.

It's not fun coming down that hill on a bike at the best of times, never mind when the concertina braking is in effect.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.2432314,-6.1311797,3a,75y,333.25h,89.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgLAbUAyMmK6-p4_fouWV7w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

The cynic in me suspects the van is posted there at rush hour in order to bump up the stats on "vehicles monitored for speed" as opposed to actually expecting to detect anyone breaking the limit.

magicbastarder

go safe vans can only catch speeding motorists within 40m of the van anyway.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122718632#Comment_122718632

I know that. You know that. Probably every single person knows that. But the law on causation takes a rather dispassionate view of things.

Personally, those speed vans are a joke. You either see them a mile off or - as in this case - they're placed around corners causing asshats to jump on brakes and ultimately cause traffic chaos thanks to the concertina effect that cyclists and fans of pro cycling in particular are all too familiar with.

I'd take your line of thought and go one further… if only there was some way of cheaply and consistently catching people who break the speed limits when driving…

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122718883#Comment_122718883

I thought they had improved the range to the point if you are within visible range long enough to make a detection, it can detect you. I could be wrong.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122719111#Comment_122719111

Black box in cars, simples and effective, has to be installed before the next NCT. Auto fine for 2 S.D. for GPS over the speed limit. Anyone without one loses the car, towed and crushed with a €5000 fine attached to your PPSH to be recouped from revenue within 30 days or over 12 months if your income is below a certain threshold.

Speeding solved within 3 years, invest the money saved from reduced RTAs to install RLJ cameras.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122719792#Comment_122719792

AFAIK the laser guns used by gardai have a theoretical range of over 1km, but that's because the garda can aim it very specifically at the car they want to measure. the go safe vans are not tracking individual targets in the same way so probably need you to get close to ensure the system is not confusing you with another car.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122719792#Comment_122719792

The vans have that range - but they can only be configured to look at a specific area at any given time. So if it’s monitoring a spot 500m away, then it’s not monitoring the traffic at 300m - for example.

To make the long ranges less attractive - on a straight stretch if they configure them to detect at a distance of 500m, then they need a clear line of sight for that 500m - anything in between could block the reading.

Add to the complication that they can’t issue a ticket if more than one vehicle in the picture and it makes the long range detections by vans completely impractical.

Hand held speed guns are more likely to be used for long range detections - but the level of manned speed traps seems to be very low these days

magicbastarder

in short, if you get caught by a go-safe van, you're such an idiot behind the wheel that you really should have your licence revoked.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122719937#Comment_122719937

Ah its the top bit I didn't realise, I figured it would be far shorter on a busy road as its one at a time but I thought they could instantly look up the road when it is quiet.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122719799#Comment_122719799

There would need to be some careful structuring of such a scheme - a blanket requirement would disproportionately affect poorer people. The costs would hardly be noticed by the wealthy, which in the long term would end up making driving a privilege of the wealthy. It's kind of why clamping works - plenty of wealthy people will happily run the risk of a fine for the convenience of dumping their car somewhere convenient, but the indiscriminately inconvenient discovery of your car clamped is a great leveller.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721108#Comment_122721108

Take it out of the motor tax income, increase the top rate of motor tax for D, E and F cars by 40% on a phased basis, increase by 10% year on year for the next 4 years. Also make it a legal requirement that all new cars sold by a dealer require it installed (an effective non cost for the consumer). After 4 years, all cars sold by a dealer, new or second hand must install them. They will not be prohibitively expensive, they are already in use by some insurers.

The other benefit is that it will probably lower insurance costs for some very quickly if there is the option to release the info to 3rd party vendors such as insurers (opt in only).

Garda mobile app will have a tick box on it if the car should have it installed and the ability to see is it moving.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721370#Comment_122721370

@RSA/ @SimonHarris … See how easy it is to spitball and find workable solutions to the s**tshow that is our roads? What initiatives have come from the RSA and Govt. in the last 10 years?

As an aside, has anyone else found the traffic on the roads to be worse than ever since the schools have returned? It seems noticeably worse that last academic year. N11 is like a car park all the way back to Newtown Mt.Kennedy by 7.30am. Rat running is chronic. Really need to get back on the bike for my sanity.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721519#Comment_122721519

Very much a mixture of the secondary schools and UCD. A huge amount of students no longer rent in Dublin (and the number who in UCD has gone up phenomenally in the last 10 years, between staff and students you could have 35,000 on site during term time, if everyone turned up on a single day, you could in theory have 48,000 but that doesn't happen, the science building alone has 24,000 different people walking through it on the busiest day of the week). Secondary school students are stuck between overcrowded DB, and the parent taxi, thankfully the numbers walking and cycling seems to have increased but you still see several Colaiste Eoin Land Rover Taxis barreling up the Bus lane north bound, then swinging across last minute (a few with yellow reg plates as well, which I find hilarious, you can afford a LR but not VRT). Mount Anville has improved immensely but it is still busy but at least the majority drive off the road and drop off as they are meant too. The Teresian school closer to Donnybrook is the worst where the parents have a Whatsapp group to notify others if the Gardai are in the Bus Lane in the morning.

The train in the mornings is now standing room only from Gorey, which is phenomenal but they need at least the same again 30 minutes later.

I used to live in Bray and it used to be once you were on the N11/M11 before 7:45 you were grand but as you said, traffic is heavy for the 20 miles before it at that stage now. Part the numbers, the other part people freaking out because they do not know how to merge safely.

Citizen Six

I was caught by a van on the M1 at roughly 260 meters. Must have had a pretty tight focus, as plenty of other cars beside me. I didn't ask for the photo.

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721519#Comment_122721519

Yes - i park and cycle and got caught badly on Monday. The amount of rat running is tailing back Kilmac towards to Long Hill, as so many coming from the right at the first roundabout (Quill Road I'd guess but perhaps Bohilla Lane too). Can only say I haven't seen it back up there in over 20 years of commuting, even back in the days of 5 days a week in the office. Now, I'd say it's every day (the bollards at the garage probably arent helping either though)

Just to add, the number of school buses not operating in North Wicklow probably isn't helping either, if you take circa 10 full buses having to be in private cars!

o1s1n

Cycling by Stephens Green this morning along the lovely big wide cycle track, the one that leads on to Leeson Street.

Motorbike does what motorbikes always do there and use the cycle track to skip traffic. This really really grinds my gears, so I make sure to take up as much of the cycle lane as I can. (I'll generally be cycling faster than most of the cyclists there so they'll be sitting on the left with me overtaking them on the right)

Biker guy comes up behind me, on the cycle track, revving for me to get out of the way.

I turned back to him, shouting 'are you revving at me on a cycle track??' and he pointed at the ground, saying something through his helmet. Not sure what he said but he seemed to be indicating that I was in the wrong. Then sped off around me. Again, on the cycle track.

I've never been so incensed in my life.

On the off chance he reads this forum, you sir, are a massive ****.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122724569#Comment_122724569

I've had plenty of cars undertake there using that cycling lane. Saw a motorbike yesterday using the cycle lane at Fitzwilliam Square going towards Merrion Square using the cycle lane to skip ahead of traffic. Bear in mind that this cycle lane is narrow and located between the footpath and the parked cars. Every day I see some example of more-than-minor abuse of cycle lanes by motorists, and yet we'll still get the "use the bike lane d**khead" shouted at us if we decide for our own safety, 'f**k it, I'm just using the main lane'. Even had someone on this very forum last year arguing that my admitting to not using all bike lanes even when they're available is a "d**k move". Well, if he happens to still be reading this forum… above is just one of many reasons why.