Used Car Warranty and Repair

Forge83

Hi everyone,

Purchased a 2015 Nissan Qashqai from a big used car dealership in my county in August. Car was bought with 3 month warranty.

Had car for 3 weeks and it developed a fuel issue that was quiet dangerous leaking fumes into the car. A few other smaller issues also. Took it back, had it repaired which took 3 days. 3 weeks later back again with same issue and a couple new issues. Repaired again which took a week. Back again 3 weeks later with a new issue on cold start and lack of power. Kept for 2 weeks, couldn’t find the problem, cleaned different parts of the fuel system,changed fuel filters etc. Drove for a week and it’s worse than ever. Rang the garage before Xmas and told them I’m bringing the car back for either a replacement or refund. They have convinced me to give them one more chance to fix it, I think they are going to outsource it this time. I’m a fairly reasonable person, maybe too reasonable. I have them told that if it’s not fixed this time that it’s going back to them. They are collecting it tomorrow to repair. So my question is, legally when can I say I no longer want it repaired, but replaced or refunded. Car cost €11,500.

Other Info- Garage is 50mins away so have already spent 5 hours driving over and back plus fuel costs. Car has spent 4 weeks in garage. Loaner cars have been really poor cars that I have to keep transferring insurance too with a total cost so far of €130.

Thank you.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058330115/used-car-warranty-and-repair

There is no black and white answer as to when you can legally demand a return or replacement, all of these things end up in front of a judge who will make a decision based on the facts of the case by applying a standard of reasonableness. For example, has the garage acted reasonably? Has the consumer acted reasonably?

So make sure you document absolutely everything involved with the case and be prepared to back up any statement or claim in court. Which in turn means that you need to pursue as much detail as you can at every stage. For example if they say there is a fuel fault, make sure to ask exactly what the fuel fault is, what they have done about it, what they are doing about it etc etc.

One problem you are going to face is being clear on exactly what faults they repaired and when. It is common for people to say the garage gets 3 attempts to fix the fault, but from your OP it sounds as if the original fault was fixed and that the latest issue is a new issue. That is not grounds for return, new faults can happen and as long as the garage responds to them then they can argue they are acting reasonably. And no, just because they are all fuel faults does not mean they are the same fault, this is where the devil is in the details, so make sure you have all the details.

Forge83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121583059#Comment_121583059

Yes I have far more detail than above but it would take an hour to post it. I know every part that was either repaired or replaced. Have videos or pictures of all issues, exact dates of everything. First big issue was a fuel clamp that caused fumes to enter car when driving that was repaired, didn’t work and then replaced. So it took them two attempts to correct the issue. When it was replaced I informed them of cold start issues and lack of power on the same day. They informed me that the clamp replacement would fix this but it did not. It was returned again to find the issue, they tested the injectors, changed the fuel filter, took down the exhaust system to check for any issues, and then added a decarboniser. Few lies told in the middle of the two weeks they had it about waiting for parts etc but I’ll get over that.Gave me back the car and told me to drive it for 2 fills of fuel to see if the decarboniser worked and it didn’t. So they have tried to fix this twice and failed. I am being more than reasonable giving them a third attempt to fix the same problem. To be fair they are being reasonable and I am being reasonable but there has to be a legal finish line somewhere. If the same issue can’t be repaired at a third attempt surely I have some legal protection?

Other issues that were fixed-

Start Stop not working after 1 week- Battery Replaced

Aftermarket Parking sensors- Repaired twice

Car Alarm issues- Repaired twice

Drivers Door not closing fully after 1 week-Repaired once

Im not expecting a second hand car to be perfect but just too many issues in the first month that have dragged on now to 4 months.

Other problems include loaner cars whos windows won’t go back up when you are nearly an hour away from them. Another loaner car that barely has brakes and one loaner car which wouldn’t lock so couldn’t leave anything in it when parking anywhere bar home. I’ve bought 20+ vehicles in my life between private and business and I haven’t had as many issues combined between the rest in comparison to this car.

bucketybuck

The thing is, what you are describing is a garage that is responding when you report an issue. Everything you have typed describes a garage engaging with you and making good faith attempts to fix faults.

I'm not saying it isn't a pain in the hole, but they are engaging with you and that matters should you decide to go to court.

You also say again that they need a third attempt to fix the same problem. But honestly, what you wrote does not describe that, I see multiple faults, not the same fault. If I can see that and I have only your words to go on then damn sure the garage will be able to present a case for it using their own details.

Thats just my opinion, worth what you paid for it.

Forge83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121583339#Comment_121583339

Just to make it a bit clearer-

Complaint 1- Smell of fuel in car. Start stop warning light.Door not closing. 3 days

Complaint 2- Smell of fuel in car. Cold start issues and power loss. Parking sensors. Car alarm. 1 week.

Complaint 3- Cold Start issues and power loss. Parking sensors. Car alarm. 2 weeks.

Complaint 4- Cold start issues and power loss. Being collected for repair tomorrow.

Clearly the same problem reported 3 times. They are trying to fix it but can’t. Not sure how you are seeing it as 3 different issues.

ronaneire

You bought a used car, and I use the word "used" loosely. From what you have said, the garage have taken it back and repaired and carried out. Most garages give you engine, gearbox and transmission warranty, but it seems they have fixed other issues. You are going to have issues with any car regardless.

You kick up a stink, they refund you the money. You go and buy another car, what is to say you won't have issues with it.

Let them look at it and see what the outcome is. If they had blanked you from the 1st issue, it would be completely different. However, they have engaged and they have tried to resolve the issues.

bucketybuck

Because this is what you wrote:

First big issue was a fuel clamp that caused fumes to enter car when driving that was repaired, didn’t work and then replaced. So it took them two attempts to correct the issue. When it was replaced I informed them of cold start issues and lack of power on the same day. They informed me that the clamp replacement would fix this but it did not. It was returned again to find the issue, they tested the injectors, changed the fuel filter, took down the exhaust system to check for any issues, and then added a decarboniser.

Fuel clamp fixed. Then you reported cold start issue, they said to come back if it was still there, you did and at that point they did tests and added a decarboniser.

This in fact contradicts the OP, where you said there was a 3 week gap between fixing the fumes issue and you reporting the cold start issue.

Had car for 3 weeks and it developed a fuel issue that was quiet dangerous leaking fumes into the car. A few other smaller issues also. Took it back, had it repaired which took 3 days. 3 weeks later back again with same issue and a couple new issues. Repaired again which took a week. Back again 3 weeks later with a new issue on cold start and lack of power. Kept for 2 weeks, couldn’t find the problem, cleaned different parts of the fuel system,changed fuel filters etc. Drove for a week and it’s worse than ever. Rang the garage before Xmas and told them I’m bringing the car back for either a replacement or refund.

Both of your posts describe you reporting the cold start issue and then the garage having ONE opportunity to find and repair it, not three chances.

Again, I can only go on what you wrote.

Forge83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121583469#Comment_121583469

1.“When it was replaced I informed them of cold start issues and lack of power on the same day.They informed me that the clamp replacement would fix this but it did not.”

2.”It was returned again to find the issue, they tested the injectors, changed the fuel filter, took down the exhaust system to check for any issues, and then added a decarboniser. Few lies told in the middle of the two weeks they had it about waiting for parts etc but I’ll get over that.Gave me back the car and told me to drive it for 2 fills of fuel to see if the decarboniser worked and it didn’t. So they have tried to fix this twice and failed.”

3.”Drove for a week and it’s worse than ever. Rang the garage before Xmas and told them I’m bringing the car back for either a replacement or refund. They have convinced me to give them one more chance to fix it, I think they are going to outsource it this time.”

Look mate, you seem to be picking and choosing the parts that suit you or pick holes in a quick boards post that I kept as short as possible. I’ve clearly said above they have tried to fix the issue twice and this will be the 3rd attempt. Either answer the question or don’t. This is the garages third attempt to fix the same problem, do I have any legal protection if they cannot repair this issue on their 3rd attempt assuming both I and the garage have acted reasonably.

Forge83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121583455#Comment_121583455

My warranty is full bumper to bumper 3 month warranty though, have it in writing. Everything outside of tyres and brake pads etc is covered. So they have to repair everything I have listed, I paid for it when I bought the car. As I’ve said already we are both being reasonable, I just want to know if it the same problem cannot be repaired on the third attempt, what legal protection do I have as there’s being reasonable and there’s taking the piss.

Flinty997

Both the car and dealer sound like a lemon.

...Ghost...

As long as both parties are being reasonable, there is no reason to take it further. I would however insist that any courtesy car is not a heap of shíte.

I had a similar issue a good few years back with a 4 year old BMW. I had it with the garage at least 4 times as it was losing coolant. They were a good hour away from me too. They gave me a loaner of another BMW but it broke down on the way home and I had to wait for hours in rush hour traffic for them to send a tow. I was píssed off. I insisted on picking my loaner cars every time I went in to have the car looked at again. I got a chance to try out a few different cars, which softened the sting of bringing the car in every time. They were reasonable and replaced a number of components in the cooling system, including the radiator. Turned out to be perished tubing that only leaked when the car was up to temperature, so was very hard to spot.

If they become unreasonable, then you can consider going further. You did buy an 8 year old, now 9 year old Quashqai though. What sort of mileage does it have? If it's high mileage and you don't know the history, it's not surprising you will have a list of issues to be resolved.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121583552#Comment_121583552

The question was already answered, there is no black and white line where they have to do anything. There are no "3 chances to fix it", if you go legal then it simply ends up in front of a judge who looks at what happened and makes a decision based on a test of reasonableness.

I hope your story is clearer for him/her than it was here.

Forge83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121583784#Comment_121583784

Car had 212k kms so mileage isn’t bad. I think it’s fair to think an 8 year old car would still be mechanically very good. I would normally buy private and buy cheaper. Decided to pay a higher price with a garage as I didn’t have time to be looking for something decent quality privately.This Nissan is my daily driver when not in work van. The fact I paid 2/3k more than a private one is also stinging when the reason I paid extra was to avoid any mechanical issues and headaches.