Is there life after death or maybe life on other planets?

nozzferrahhtoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728222#Comment_121728222

I guess the main clue is in the name to help us out even. NEAR Death Experience. The patient did not die. They experienced what it is like to NEARLY die. Near Death Experience is no more an experience of the after life than walking up to, and then away from, a plane is an experience of a holiday in Morocco.

There are not many claims of ACTUAL (not clinical) death, from which people return. Outside thngs like the Bible and Marvel Comics that is of course. But they appear to be fiction.

I have gone down more than rabbit holes on the subject. I have read about it and looked at it for YEARS. Not just idly watching "tiktok".

NDE, OBE and reincarnation specifically. But other forms of claim that involve human consciousness leaving, or surviving the death of, the brain. Been reading into them since my teens and I am in my mid 40s now.

To be honest I have not found anything "compelling" there. At leat not in the supernatural sense. It is certainly interesting that despite all our differences, we are biologically similar enough that we all exprience the same things when put under the same duress.

FaganJr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728496#Comment_121728496

Oh dear Scoffing at the number 1 social media platform in the world, Anyway, there were a number of declared dead experiencers there and one being a neurosurgeon.

But hey, it's only TikTok right..............

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728222#Comment_121728222

Usually they talk of serenity, brightness, calmness, seeing loved ones or people you recognize, angels, re-assuring words, noises.

Or, as it's also known, experiencing hallucinations. That tends to happen with dying as you your body suffers oxygen deprivation, and your brain starts shutting down, you begin to hallucinate and/or unconsciously accept your death. It's a basic biochemical reaction, you see and hear things, and in a calming state of your brain not getting oxygen, the hallucinations appear peaceful and serene and your memories and thoughts of such things come to the fore. Nothing more to it than simple biochemistry.

What amazes me is the stupidity of people who believe it. That fact they've gone through it, fair enough, but now that suddenly it isn't there anymore wouldn't have anything at all to do with the oxygen returning to your brain now, would it? Kinds gives you the answer.

It's why priests/shamans/oracle's/soothsayers and all other forms of various religious/spiritual used to take all manners of drugs and plants and perform all sorts of meditations or good old fashioned oxygen deprivation throughout so many different cultures over the different millennia, as being close to death or absolute serenity allows you access to the "gods". We know now they were hallucinating.

Cordell

Honest (I swear) question: which version of one's soul goes on to live forever, or to heaven, or whichever life after death you think there is? Is it the one where they were young and innocent? It's the one they had during their last breath even if it was something completely deteriorated by old age diseases like dementia?

Tony EH

Usually they talk of serenity, brightness, calmness, seeing loved ones or people you recognize, angels, re-assuring words, noises.

All of which can be experienced in mere dreams.

nozzferrahhtoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728617#Comment_121728617

Yet I scoffed at nothing. I merely put it in quotes. So you quoted my entire post but replied to nothing that was in it, but something that only existed and happened in your own head. Much like NDE I suppose!!!

What TikTok is not however is science. In fact without a monumenal level of effort, nothing on it is all that verifiable. The distinction I was making between the things I have read.... and idly watching TikTok... was not a scoff at TikTok but an acknowledgement that at least when you read Science Papers and books on the topic, the authors tend to have engaged in at least some minimum level of rigor to verify their sources and so forth. Things like TikTok and Twitter are not generally the platforms for that level of rigor.

However as you rightly note, it is one of the most used platforms on the planet. So merely pointing at it and saying "The evidence is in there" is not so useful. If you want to be decent enough to link to some of the more "compelling" narratives you found there, we can all of course go check them out ourselves.

But without that, your post is alas just guff. There were a total of 8.6 billion videos uploaded in TikTok in 2021. I am not about to go trawling around in it to find your alleged neurosurgeon.

However I am not clear why you think being a neurosurgeon, in the context of NDE, is actually even worth mentioning. Surgeons, as opposed to scientists, tend to know a lot less than you might think on the topic of their surgery. There is a massive distinction between a neurosurgeon and a neuroscientist for example.

In fact there is a book "Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife" written by Eben Alexander which is a useful example of this. Some of the claims in that book.... and the associated NewsWeek article about him.... about the brain are simply patently wrong. Not because the author is an idiot. But because the author simply does not know any better and being trained as a neurosurgeon actually leaves you knowing suprisingly little about the brain and general human biology. I read the above texts without any such qualification and even I was able to spot the errors there.

FaganJr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728733#Comment_121728733

I've seen some accounts of this from NDE's and they say that time as we live it doesn't exist or in a sense we dont understand, basically everything that has happened and will happen exists at the same time, so you can experience any part of your life or past lives.

It's non linear time I believe it's referred to, but I've only skimmed this part so far.

From my point of view I just find it comforting if this is what happened to the people I've loved & lost.

It sounds very peaceful & happy for them.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728905#Comment_121728905

So you're going to relieve your life all over again, with no new experiences, just a continuous rewind and rerun? That's a cruel nightmare if you ask me. Especially if your life wasn't all that happy. And the non linear time it's just another dimension added to this nightmare for us humas who experience time linearly. FFS if that is what we're to be expecting then nothingness sounds way better.

Username here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728492#Comment_121728492

So, how DO you know?

NIMAN

If you grow up your entire life as a believer, and think you are going to see a tunnel of light, your old family and friends etc, what do you expect a human body to do when it's in a NDE?

it'll project what you have been conditioned to. Simple as that.

FaganJr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728938#Comment_121728938

There is no time as we know it so you dont live your life again. I'm no afterlife expert, as I've been told.

But there is a review that is commonly reported.

I wouldn't fear it from what I've heard.

FaganJr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121729000#Comment_121729000

Atheists report the same experience as religious people, it's interesting.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121729024#Comment_121729024

Maybe because they have all heard the stories too?

As an atheist, I wouldn't be surprised if I saw my dad and grandparents etc if I was in a NDE. Does it mean it's real? I guess we will never know, but I'm sticking with no, it's only my dying brain and it's coping mechanism to it dying, releasing happy drugs to ease the pain of my existence coming to an end.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728905#Comment_121728905

It is all well and good if you find it peaceful and comforting, that doesn't make it true though.

FaganJr

https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/publications__trashed/academic-publications/near-death-experiences-academic-publications/?wpv_view_count=2327-TCPID2329&wpv_paged=1

Here's a few, if not many Academic paper's on the subject.

Might be something to it after all?

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121729534#Comment_121729534

I don't think anyone is disputing that something happens to a person when they have a near death experience. We are disputing that you see a God (take your pick of which God that is), or pearly gates, or your family. There is a thing call hallucinations.

FaganJr

"Ultimately, what we're saying is, 'This is the great unknown. We're in uncharted territory.' And the key thing is that these are not hallucinations. These are a real experience that emerges with death."

Interesting Article here:

https://www.9news.com.au/world/near-death-experiences-tied-to-brain-activity-after-death-study-says/45a9e215-f007-43a9-8499-92b33e05a220

nozzferrahhtoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121729534#Comment_121729534

I would say that depends on the "something" you think it is. I for one definitely agree there is "something" to it. Quite a lot of interesting somethings to be honest. I just do not suspect it is the same "something(s)" you thus far appear to think it is.

I certainly have seen nothing in any papers.... and I have read many including many on your list there.... that suggest that NDE is actually human consciousness operating indepednetly of, or surviving the death of, the brain. Not just little. Nothing.

In fact if you read the links (many or most of which are not papers at all) in the list you offered you will see that very few of them have anything to do with showing NDE is any such thing.

Even the first two on the list are good examples of this. The first is discussing the effects on your quality of life of having an NDE. The second is related to the effect on fear of death from having an NDE.

Others on the list do not study NDE at all, rather they are a commentary on what you should and should not do IF you study NDE for example.

Another one on the list looks into how there us a surge of activity in brains nearing death. Which offers a very real world, not at all supernatural, explanation for what NDE likely is.

Another one on your list, even more interestingly, compares actual NDE with hypnotically induced "death" experiences and found similiar experiences between the two. This is probably not a good finding for people who want to imagine that NDE is people experiencing an after life or heaven. It seems you do not actually have to die or even be dying, to have essentially much the same experiences! What then does NDE have to do with the afterlife at all?

Overall I think a person "on the fence" would be very hard pushed to find anything in that long list you just offfered, which would leave them to think NDE is a "life after death" phenomenon but is in fact very much a "living brain" phenomenon.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121729692#Comment_121729692

Oh I too agree with you that merely calling them "hallucinations" is probably not useful. I do not think it is entirely inaccurate. I just do not think that word reaches the full depth of it. The word "hallucination" suggests the perception of things not present or existing. While I agree that this can be an aspect of NDE, I do not think it is the totality of NDE.

Rather I suspect that with NDE much of what a person experiences is very real indeed. Your article opinion piece here starts with the patient perceiving the hospital room around them for example. That patient was indeed in a hospital room and so therefore was likely perceiving it at some level.

Dreams work like this too. Often noises or smells or other sensations surrounding you make themselves part of your dream. There is a reason we do not call dreams "hallucinations" either. We recognise a distinct difference between them.

Again, I think most people or maybe even everyone, likely agree with the above statement that NDE is a very real thing, and a very real experience. That is not contentious. What is contentious is the idea.... lacking even the smallest modicum of evidence...... that the experience is evidence of an after life, or of human consciousness operating wthout or following the death of, the brain.

Murt2024

Maybe in the future we can clone your DNA from the maggots and worms feasting on your rotten flash

FaganJr

@nozzferrahhtoo Are you referring to the DMT studies?

nozzferrahhtoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121729764#Comment_121729764

I wrote a lot above. Can you be more specific? I can only guess at what you mean.

I am guessing you are referring to my mentioning the "Hynotically induced" experiences? If not then apologies, as I said you left me only able to guess.

Specifically I was referring to a link on your list there entitled "A Comparison of Hypnotically-Induced Death Experiences and Near-Death Experiences" from 2018.

The study found that people experiencing "death" under hypnosis experience similar things to people who have actual NDE. Specifically in this case using hypnosis on people who believe they had past lives. Which of course means we need more study.... as an interpretation of such a study will be heavily influenced based on whether one thinks said patients ACTUALLY had past lives or not.

On it's own the study therefore says almost nothing, and is almost entirely useless. But it is certainly an interesting avenue to look into further. Unfortunately I am not aware of too many incidences where people have tried to study hypnosis in general, and experiences under it, in relation to comparing it to NDE and OBE and so forth.

Hawkeye123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728967#Comment_121728967

Coz the bible tells me so.

Hotblack Desiato

...and the bible is true, because it says so?

taxAHcruel

Like this?

Sunny Disposition

Someone close to me went to a psychic recently. They told them very specific, little known information about myself. I don't think she could possibly have found it out from any research. The psychic also had some messages from a person who died a number of years ago.

I told this to a friend of mine. He told me his wife had got incredibly got a message from an uncle who died a generation earlier. The woman who got the message from the psychic hadn't even been aware of the circumstances of her uncle's death.

I'm sure people won't agree, but that kind of stuff makes me believe there is a life after death of some kind. Also I read an interview with an author lately who wrote a novel which has the nature of memory as a major theme. The author researched a lot and found that even neuroscientists know very little about why consciousness exists. Could the brain and the body merely be receivers for a greater power acting through them?

Anyway, I'm much more optimistic about there being life after death, or maybe even a life parallel to the one we are currently living in.

taxAHcruel

Out of curiosity - where were you yourself when this psychic was giving your friend personal information about you? And what form did this information take? Were you mentioned by name for example?

It's not at all usual to my limited knowledge for psychics to be giving information on third parties who are not present. They usually limit it solely to the person or people who are in the room before them. Not least because of the blow back they can get if their customer runs off to the person they were talking behind the back of - and said person comes storming through the door angrily days later.

Like if a psychic told one person their friend is having an affair - and said person runs to that friend and informs them the psychic said they were having an affair - then regardless of whether they are in fact having an affair or not they would have warranted grounds to be extremely annoyed.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121852430#Comment_121852430

I was at home. I don't think I was mentioned by name, not sure, but I was very clearly identified and my relationship to the person there.

There was nothing particularly sensitive about the information, to be honest not many people would be interested, but the psychic asked had I finished a particular project that almost no one would know I have been working on. I had finished it about two weeks earlier after over a year of working on it daily. I know people are cynical about this kind of thing, but I can't possibly see how someone could know what that person knew. Even if they had thoroughly researched the person coming to see them, it'd be next to impossible to dig up the information in question.

taxAHcruel

Ah right. It does seem odd because as I said the people in that profession as far as I know tend to minimize talking about third parties. So I was just curious about it. I was not intending to question or be cynical about your story. I was just interested in that one aspect of it.

But since you mentioned it yourself not me then - Yes cynicism and skepticism is warranted. You see I know well - and have studied and trained in - many of the techniques these people use to extract information or to leave you thinking they have extracted information even when they haven't actually done so. I use many of the techniques myself not as a psychic but in my mentalism and illusion and close up magic routines. Magic is a big hobby for me.

Unfortunately when you hear about these events however it tends to be second hand. So someone will come and say "I went to a psychic - they knew X - there is no way they could possibly have known X". But since I was not in the room and there is no video or audio footage I tend not to be able to show them which techniques were used when and how. I can talk vaguely about the kind of techniques that were probably used (researching people coming to see them is one of only very many techniques used. Many techniques are used cold "in the moment" with no prior knowledge).

But - What we have here is even one more step removed from that. It is not even second hand. It's third hand. So there is nothing I can comment on. I was merely curious about the whole "third party" thing.

But for sure if I had a dollar for every person who comes from a psychic saying "They could not possibly have known what they knew" I would be a rich man indeed. The entire profession is built around making you think that. And as I said I know and use many of the ways they do it.