Dublin ranked as second worst city in the world for traveling by car

BlueSkyDreams

Has there ever been a feasibility study completed on connecting Brides Glen Luas station to Shankill Dart Station?

Its only 1.8km directly, but would mean people accessing the coast from the Green Line wouldnt need to drive and vice versa.

An underground opportunity perhaps?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622951#Comment_121622951

2 busconnects routes were given planning permission recently, if bus lane cameras are rolled out along with the new infrastructure, the car lobby aren't really relevant any more to these routes

PopePalpatine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622777#Comment_121622777

I dread to imagine how long it'd take to rebuild Dublin if a similar disaster befell it. You'd have the Georgian architecture fetishists claiming random piles of rubble are architectural heritage.

erlichbachman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622865#Comment_121622865

Or, how’s about we put some of that car tax money into funding areas which improve driving in the city, rather than this pipe dream whereby someone went on holidays to the netherlands and now has some picturesque vision of the population walking to work with a cheesy grin on their face each morning. Completely oblivious to the fundamental needs of a society.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622972#Comment_121622972

There's plans to extend the Green Luas line to Bray but can't be done at the moment as the Green Luas is at capacity.

If it was upgraded to Metro, they could do it.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622951#Comment_121622951

Again, I need to point out, that most people already get into the city by public transport. Twice as many people get into the city every day by bus then car, never mind, DART, Luas, etc.

The reality is with projects like BusConnects, we are going to give more and more road space to bus and cycle ways. It won't happen overnight of course, but it has been and will continue to happen over the next decade.

Metrolink of course is badly needed, as is Dart+, but even before then we will still need to get the buses moving as quickly as possible and give them priority over the cars.

Keep in mind bus use is up 20% from pre-covid, that is a massive jump and shows BusConnects, even in it's early stages is working.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622832#Comment_121622832

Actual enforcement of the bus lanes and yellow boxes would go some considerable way towards improving the flow.

Cars entering bus lanes illegally when they’re turning left when they’re actually supposed to stay in the main traffic lane until the end of the bus lane are a scourge on the bus service.

The wands installed along Harold’s Cross Road and Rathmines Road towards the canal, and on the Swords Road inbound at Whitehall Church have significantly improved the flow of buses’ movement.

But just look at Conyngham Road inbound approaching Parkgate Street - it’s ridiculous. A massive line of cars all blocking the bus lane.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622981#Comment_121622981

improve driving how? we already spend billions on roads every year. i've never driven to work by the way, nor has my partner, so different people have different needs.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622992#Comment_121622992

The 90 minute €2 fare has been very popular I think.

Touch pay by phone or card would be great.

Vienna has an annual ticket of €365 for all public transport eg Metro, Bus, Tram, Commuter rail.

I think that would be a good idea once Busconnects is close to completion as a promotion.

It's about €1000 a year here for just one mode and €1550 for all modes eg Dart, Bus and Luas. €365 for that would be very popular I think.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622969#Comment_121622969

I know the road well, I pass it often. Buses still get jammed with cars trying to turn left. albeit not as badly

Gas thing is, this could have bee design SOOOOO much better when the port tunnel was being built given that it passes under bridge and there's a wasted median in the middle of the road.

The could have brought the ramp from Shantala road down in the middle Lane allowing buses to continue straight, cars turning left could get in lane prior going under the bridge. Far better solution, no traffic intersecting, buses left unimpeded. But did they do that? No.... Cause why would you bother like?... what's there is "Grand"

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623014#Comment_121623014

But availing of the taxsaver scheme, that single mode ticket can come down to EUR 552.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622976#Comment_121622976

There will be certain roadways that are bus lanes only, under the BusConnects project.

Bus lanes have existed in Ireland since the 80s. There is nothing new to see with bus lanes being introduced.

The majority of bus routes are still shared lanes and I do not see this changing significantly.

I have no problem personally with roads being closed off to cars. so buses can use them exclusivley, but my point its that we will never see this happen across the majority of the road network.

I dont know if anyone has stats, but what percentage of bus route road space in Dublin is exclusive to buses...

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623014#Comment_121623014

Agree completely, the whole Tax Saver scheme isn't fit for purpose and should be scrapped. The 2 eur and 1 eur fares for younger folks for 90 minutes of travel has been a game changer and has made public transport look much more attractive to many people.

I can't wait for tap to pay support, will make public transport even easier to use.

I also love the orbital routes like the N4 and 24/7 routes.

BusConnects is in relatively early stages and it has already delivered significant improvements. Hopefully a lot more to come as they start working on the infrastructure side, camera enforcement, etc.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620450#Comment_121620450

Maybe the motorists who insist on driving through the city with four empty seats for short journeys that could be done on foot or by bike, and for longer journeys that could be done by public transport are absolutely to blame for the congestion?

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622865#Comment_121622865

Population of Dublin County is increasing about 18,000 a year (Greater Dublin Area is increasing also) and we can't make the roads any wider, so the only solution in the medium term is walking, cycling and buses.

If they start planning and design of another Metro line once the first one starts construction, then we could in a best case scenario have two Metro lines in 15 years. That's definitely possible. This would take a huge amount of cars and buses off the roads.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623039#Comment_121623039

I think a €365 annual ticket for all modes would be a good promotion once Busconnects is close to completion.

They can have Georgia Salpa riding a bus in her bikini maybe and Bernard O'Shea chasing after her.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623059#Comment_121623059

I think the O Orbital route will be very handy once it starts. The southside orbital routes have just launched recently. I'd like to see the data on them.

The tap to pay should have been done years ago. It's simple technology.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619421#Comment_121619421

the contributing factor to reducing road deaths over what time scale? deaths started to decline around 1980, a couple of decades before we got started on our motorway network.

Beta Ray Bill

Another reason why traffic is mental in Dublin is the likes of this.

Asshole delivering lampposts at 8.20am blocking traffic right down onto the quays.

Insult to injury is that this building site has taken a whole lane if traffic around the corner on Tara St and turned it into a delivery area for goods and materials.

The problem isn't cars. It's design, planning and assholes.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622988#Comment_121622988

Interesting.

Metro is still 10yrs plus away though.

We are at capacity already on the Green Line?

That will be a major problem, once all the new builds in Cherrywood, Sandyford, Stilorgan and Leopardstown etc come on stream.

Lots of those homes are completing this year.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623211#Comment_121623211

It sort of is and isn't. TII have various capacity improvements which they claim can handle the likes of Cherrywood, etc. but wouldn't be enough to allow extension to Bray.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623211#Comment_121623211

I agree but Metro could start construction in 2025. Could be completed in 7 years.

But that won't increase capacity on Green line as planning permission wasn't possible on upgrade but I think they'll try again in a few years.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623244#Comment_121623244

Would be interesting to see the loading on the Green Line now.

It is obviously jammed at peak hours but outside of that, it is normally busy but ok.

Hopefully they will start running the Luas late on weekends soon, that would be a huge boost for the night time economy, given the lack of taxis in the city centre.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623211#Comment_121623211

We are nowhere near being “at capacity” on the Green Line - it hasn’t returned to pre-Covid levels of overcrowding.

The introduction of the longer trams during Covid has made a big difference in that regard.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623282#Comment_121623282

Is there a lack of taxis these days? Family members have gotten taxis on Freenow within a few minutes, including over the busy Xmas period.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623167#Comment_121623167

Unplanned and unmanaged blockages by construction vehicles is a large and persistent problem. They will block footpaths, cycle lanes, bus lanes, traffic lanes for as long as they choose, often pumping out diesel fumes for the duration, and Gardai will ignore them.

angel eyes 2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623061#Comment_121623061

I have stated this several times, not everyone can avail of public transport for a million reasons, most importantly for medical reasons. Their car is like a lifeline for them while trying to live a full a life as possible with a chronic condition.

Unless the commuters - with obviously nothing better to do but count how many passengers are in each car - are vegans and do not travel by air, they are in no position to judge motorists or dictate to them.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625042#Comment_121625042

Not everyone can avail of a car for a million reasons, medical reasons, disability reasons, financial reasons, environmental reasons, access to parking reasons - yet we've designed our cities solely to suit private car owners for decades, up to perhaps five years ago. Public transport is a lifeline for many people trying to live as full a life as possible.

This isn't about judging, it's about facts. If you're going to insist on travelling round carrying four empty seats with you all day, it's entirely reasonable that your journey should get lower priority than those who take public transport or sustainable travel options.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623330#Comment_121623330

Peak times it must be over capacity as people cant get on it.

But yes, outside of those hours there is certainly space. Lots of new homes going live along the route this year though.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623477#Comment_121623477

Before midnight its grand.

After midnight its a challenge.

After 1am, good luck.

SeanW

I see the usual suspects are out with their usual anti-motorist tirades. For the benefit of those who have never been to Dublin, or who act as though they have no idea what's going on there, I was at the coalface of what passes for public transport in Dublin for the best part of a decade.

Even in the best case scenario, e.g. where you live close to a Luas, DART or Commuter railway station, PT in Dublin is overcrowded like hell at peak times (to basically sardine can levels) and not all that fast. And that's in the best case scenario.

The fact is that just crapping on people for driving instead of using public transport makes no sense given how poor the latter is - even when totally or largely separate from the roads like the railways are.

At an absolute minimum, Dublin now needs everything that is currently planned plus a full metro from Donabate to Bray via Swords, the Airport and the City Centre. Also needed would be the DART Underground and an extensive expansion of the Luas *within* the M50. Also maybe a few hundred thousand new apartment units at sane rent costs.

Then - and only then - would it make sense to start blaming motorists for causing congestion etc. Any claim to the contrary really requires the suspension of disbelief.

Podge_irl

If public transport is "not all that fast" what on earth are cars?

Danny healy ray

dublin is a shot hole end of.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619360#Comment_121619360

And what are we doing ? Still kicking the one bit of a line we planned years ago, back down the road into the future again…. We’ll probably never see the thing

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625840#Comment_121625840

I'm over 90% certain it'll happen.

It's on schedule and budgeted for.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625514#Comment_121625514

Driving is much faster than PT so I don't blame people for driving.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625813#Comment_121625813

Dublin's got a lot of positives, but certainly it has problems it needs to solve.

One big positive to Dublin is that it has a great, youthful energy. Many cities don't have that.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625956#Comment_121625956

There are multiple journeys that are not well served by public transport and can lead to convoluted transfers that end up in much longer distances travelled. Some work is being done to improve this with e.g. the orbital bus routes.

But for the most part this is laughably untrue.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625976#Comment_121625976

Door to door, driving beats public transport in Dublin for almost every journey.

Cycling is fastest though.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625985#Comment_121625985

Off-peak maybe, depending on how long you have to spend finding parking. In rush hour there is not a hope.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625993#Comment_121625993

So if you had to go from Blanch to Stillorgan at peak rush hour, you'd be faster by bus? Door to door.

You could be a 5 or 10 minute walk from the bus stop. Then wait 5 minutes for the bus if you're lucky.

Then get off the bus in Stillorgan. Walk another 5 to 10 minutes to your actual destination.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625453#Comment_121625453

That's not my experience and I travel at peak times.

Every second tram starts at Sandyford and they have lots of room.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121626048#Comment_121626048

I got it the night of the riots and it was jam packed, but that may have been cos of the riots.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121626031#Comment_121626031

No, not unless there is a bad accident on the M50 (not exactly uncommon).

But this is a particularly difficult route with an obvious alternative motorway. It's not typical of an average journey. Basically any route into the city centre will be faster by public transport. Some cross city routes will also be faster depending on transfers.

The majority of journeys people take in rush hour are quicker by public transport. One suspects this is why far more people cross the canals by public transport than by car.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625985#Comment_121625985

That certainly isn't true where I live. Because of a good quality bus lane and very frequent service, it is much faster to get the bus into town then drive. Easily half the time.

It is very noticeable how on week days, our car park if full, pretty much everyone takes the bus. Most people only use their cars weekends and evenings. But no one in their right mind takes the car into town (plus cost of parking).

Of course that certainly isn't true of every part of Dublin, there are certainly areas without such good service and then the car might be faster, but it certainly isn't true for most areas.

There is a reason why 75 to 80% of people take public transport into the city. And it isn't because they can't afford a car, Dublin is a relatively well off city now, most can afford cars. But if you live somewhere with DART, LUAS or good Bus service, it is almost always faster then being stuck in traffic.

bartkingcole

Congestion charges

Flat rate annual passes for public transport (remove tax reliefs and price it in)

develop a Metro system that does not take decades to build

simplify the planning process.

kids should walk to school.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121626202#Comment_121626202

Well.

That's a good thing so.

The fewer car journeys and more bus journeys, the better.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121626048#Comment_121626048

Is Sandyford station busier now with the new apartments there?

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625234#Comment_121625234

I'd have to disagree with you there Andy, it was never designed for anything. And councils have made efforts in the last 20 years to cap the cars coming into the city like the introduction of bus and cycle lanes and biggest of all is the limited number of car parking spaces commercial buildings are allowed to have in underground car parks.

The Original building plans for the building I'm in was to go down 2 levels for car parking. DCC said no, cause we don't want cars coming in.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623330#Comment_121623330

There are times in the last 6 months where I've not been able to get onto the Luas at Trinity. I don't think it's maxed, but its very very busy

Beta Ray Bill

@bartkingcole

Congestion charges

No, they won't work, and business in town will push very hard for them to be extended to the M50 ring.

Like the Port Tunnel is now rammed with cars willing to pay the €10 to get into town, and the expense of Buses like the Swords express which often has to wait to enter the port tunnel as the congestion is so bad.

kids should walk to school.

While this thread is about car traffic I do fully agree with you on this one. The amount of times I get on the DART and its absolutely rammed with kids going to private schools. They have nearly always 2 bags with them for School and Sports, which are thrown all over the carriages. They're a blight on public transport. Schools should only be allowed to accept students from a defined catchment area.