Ulster says no - Provincial competition is no1 - Jim McGuinness

dxhound2005

They are very unlikely to get a place in Sam by getting promotion. The seedings to allocate teams to Sam and Tailteann ranks the last place in Division 2 above the top of Division 3. You are trying to make it even more certain that Kerry will get their 85th Munster title, and Cork will get their 55th runner up. But also get a guaranteed place in Sam. Even though Cork won the All Ireland in 2010, they have not won a Munster since 2012.

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121697196#Comment_121697196

Tipperary have made two All-Ireland semi-finals in the last 10 years. Clare and Limerick were both in Division 2 last year. It's not beyond any of the 3 to be in Division 2 and using that as a base to challenge for getting to Munster finals. Clare beat Cork in Munster last year and fully deserved their place in the final.

I think the Munster and Connacht championships will be better served by having the top two in the league on either side of their draws. If others can beat the top 2 seeds to make the final, the best of luck to them!

Roscommon 2-08 Mayo 0-10

Galway 1-13 Roscommon 1-09

Galway 2-20 Sligo 0-12

Was Galway v Sligo really provincial final quality? Derry v Armagh was the only competitive provincial final last year. A balanced draw in Connacht would have produced a competitive Connacht final. The 4 provincial finals as a collective reflection of the provincial championships can do with as many competitive provincial finals as possible. The open draw is leading to lopsided provincial draws and one-sided provincial finals that are tarnishing the provincial championships.

The Tailteann Cup is a new era and a new opportunity. If Sligo lose to Galway in a Connacht final, they can embark on a Tailteann expedition and target getting to Croke Park. The same for Clare and Limerick in Munster.

dxhound2005

Sligo contested 6 finals since 2000, and won Connacht in 2007. London made the final in 2013. Leitrim won it in 1994. But in the last 132 years the big three won it every year except five. It is just so unnecessary to try to eliminate the weak counties from any possibility of getting a bit of success. When it is so rare anyway.

K-9

I wonder would Sligo or Westmeath preferred Tailteann Cup or All Ireland group games? Which would stand to them in the long run? Will be interesting to see if either, or both go up to Division 2.

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121697518#Comment_121697518

Fair point but then the provincial winners only should qualify for the All-Ireland group stage along with the Tailteann winner and 11 league qualifiers.

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121698263#Comment_121698263

Westmeath fully deserved their place in the All-Ireland series last year. They were very close to knocking out Tyrone.

Sligo had a very soft route to the Connacht final, denying Meath a place in the All-Ireland series. A fairer All-Ireland and Tailteann last year would have had Meath in the All-Ireland and Sligo in the Tailteann.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701073#Comment_121701073

That goes against the 94% vote in favour of what was agreed. From the link in the OP, there is actually a move in certain quarters to make the AI series easier for the provincial champions. But not a word about making the runners up depend on League positions. The thing has only run for one year, so I can't see the logic of not giving it a chance to prove itself. I was convinced that the Tailteann would turn out to be another All Ireland B / Tommy Murphy Cup fiasco. But it could survive and prosper.

"With the provincial champions now only offered a seeded spot in a 16-team round robin format, current Connacht and Leinster CEOs John Prenty and Michael Reynolds recently called for tweaks to be made to provide greater incentive for winning the province."

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701139#Comment_121701139

"With the provincial champions now only offered a seeded spot in a 16-team round robin format, current Connacht and Leinster CEOs John Prenty and Michael Reynolds recently called for tweaks to be made to provide greater incentive for winning the province."

The Connacht and Munster champions lost a group match. The Leinster and Ulster champions drew a group match. Provincial champions could be knocked out after one loss if they go directly to the quarter-finals. The only incentive I can see for provincial champions is that they would host the group stage. Provincial champions would be rewarded 3 home games and all other counties 1 home game.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695889#Comment_121695889

Fitzmaurice is talking through his hat. For years noboby other than Mickey Harte has shown much interest in winning the McKenna Cup. Armagh put out their U20`s against Donegal this year.As Joe Brolly said a few years ago even the McKenna`s have no interest in the McKenna Cup nowadays

When it comes to calls for scrapping the provincials, we are now at the provincial final stages of the provincial championship, and for all this talk about the dire standard of football being played in Ulster, if it wasn`t for the Ulster championship you would not know there was a championship going on. All the Ulster games have been competative whereas the fare from the other three provinces has been dire.

Ulster has a provincial championship that teams value and fans love with games well attended. Just because the other provinces cannot get their acts together and provide competative games is no reason for Ulster to scrap theirs.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076103#Comment_122076103

Fair point but there is one good provincial championship, two awful ones, another that hanging on. Only for Ulster the GAA wouldn't bother with the provincial's any more IMO.

Plus looking at the draw after the provincials - Time of writing Armagh to play Donegal in Ulster Final. Donegal hot favourites. Derry and Tyrone are now in the hat for the draw on Tuesday. Is that an easier route for the AI title does it devalue the provincial in the first place?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078154#Comment_122078154

There is always that bit of bite between all teams in the Ulster championship. Nowadays other than Galway and Mayo in Connacht f their is none in the other two provincies. At this stage half the teams are out of the Sam Maguire and if it wasn`t for the Ulster championship this year many people would either not know there was a championship going on, or would have lost interest already from watching games other than those in Ulster. Ulster is competative because it means something to the players to win an Ulster medal. I doubt there is a player in Ulster that would not value it way above a nation league medal. Put those teams into a league champioship format and you would in all likliehood just have more of what we have seen from the other three provinces.

Hot favorites means little or nothing in Ulster. Derry at home were hot favorites to beat Donegal, Armagh and Donegal were hor favorites to beat Down and Tyrone with both only just getting over the line, and I expect the hot favorite tag for the final being as meaningless.

While winning your province gets you not much more than being a number one seed and your first game at home, whatever about teams in other provincies maybe doing the calculations on seeding I haven`t seen any of the Ulster teams showing any signs of it from the efforts the all put in to win their games.

The one draw-back I do see for Ulster teams is with the provincial games being so difficult to win that with this new shortened championship recovery time is way to short. Playing an Ulster semi-final 6 or 7 days after a quarter-final is crazy. The point could be made that with the short turn around going into the Sam Maguire after a tough Ulster campaign that the winner is battle hardened, but on the other hand the point could be made that they could just as easily be knackered. If the time comes under this format where Ulster teams feel it is a disadvantage to win Ulster then personally I believe the champioship would end up overall a very drab affair

BaywatchHQ

The Ulster championship will soon lose its charm when the final is moved to Casement anyway. Clones is a part of its heritage. The only way around it is to build a replica of St Tiernach's Park at Casement park but obviously that wouldn't happen. Having said that I think it will be scrapped by the time Casement is built anyway.

dxhound2005

Or there could be a resurgence of interest, which would see the Ulster Final back in Croke Park. Armagh v Donegal in 2004 attracted 67,000 spectators. When money was to be made, Clones got shafted.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101637#Comment_122101637

I would not be too sure about that. Fan loves the Ulster final, whether they love Clones is questionable. It`s very much a one horse town and the roads, especially after a final, can result in very slow moving traffic. It`s no great shakes for parking either.

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058332965/ulster-says-no-provincial-competition-is-no1-jim-mcguinness

Turns out that Jim was right.