NTA Publishes 2024 Fares Plan Changes

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666735#Comment_121666735

From the little I know of it they weren't campaigning for €2 fares. Sallins doesn't have the €2 fare so Newbridge obviously wasn't going to get a €2 fare.

But since you mentioned the €2 fare it is a prime example of a fare that isn't graduated based on distance. I can get to work (7km) or the other side of Dublin for €2. And its the best thing that has happened to public transport in Dublin in my opinion.

If someone can get to from Sallins to Dublin for €7/8 whatever the cost is, the person coming from less than ten minutes down the road shouldnt be paying the guts of €20 as per the example provided above. Anything over a euro difference between the tickets given the distance is excessive in my opinion and discourages the use of public transport but maybe thats what people want.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664604#Comment_121664604

Re:

Given the flat fares in these cities, I really don't understand how the Leap ticketing is so poor and requires driver interaction. They really could roll out the simple model 1 EMV tap to pay we discussed earlier. I suspect they are planning to also roll out a 90 minute ticket and capping in these cities too.

There's not actually a flat fare.

In Galway, there's a standard fare, which they explicitly mentioned. But there's also a higher fare that is officially for journeys over 7.5km - although in real life it's only applied on the 404, and by VERY newbie-just-out-of-training drivers on other routes

I'm pretty sure that Cork has similar.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667256#Comment_121667256

Monthly (31 day) ticket in Vienna is €51 which may suit some people better. Alternatively they can pay €33 monthly towards the annual ticket via direct debit. We're lightyears behind.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667576#Comment_121667576

Yep, similar in Cork, the vast majority of routes are a flat fare, but a small number of routes that travel further from the city can have a higher fare, though in reality it is rarely charged.

Really it would be so much similar to make it all a flat fare and put a right hand validator in like Dublin has. They could have easily done this years ago!

bk

I notice that Leap short fare is being increased to €1.50

Can't we just reduce the 90 minute fare to €1,50, overnight make it a flat fare and eliminate most driver interactions.

Also I see they aren't increasing the cash long fare, which remains €2.60, a mistake IMO. Increase that and drive people to leap and away from cash and driver interactions.

Tomrota

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667569#Comment_121667569

Exactly. People want equitable, cost effective (not just monetary), and integrated fares. I find it hilarious that people sneer about this issue while people from Newbridge pay criminal amounts just to get to work. The same people claim to be in favour of increased public transport use. Public transport needs to be either A. Quicker and easier or B. More cost effective, in order for people to avail of public transport en masse. Provide this, alongside the infrastructure, and perhaps the entire Dublin-Wicklow-Kildare-Meath area wouldn’t be a giant car park every single morning with the second worst traffic congestion in the world. In any other EU country as wealthy as we are, this would be seen as a national tragedy and something that needs prioritisation. In Ireland, we clearly still have a US car-centric attitude with people completely disinterested in the issue. However I’ve noticed a lot more interest in the last few years, which informed the debate that most likely lead to these changes being implemented.

What value does it bring to this country to exclude certain people from the ability to transfer from bus to rail to bus, etc.? Point to point ticketing is obsolete- it’s a 20th century fare model. While in the next train station you have a la carte choice of Dublin bus, rail, DART, Luas, etc. for 2€ with unlimited capping. As far as I can see, the NTA are blaming ‘technological limitations’ as a reason for Dublin commuter bus services not having a LEAP cap and multi-modal transport options.

While the introduction of a new multi-modal monthly ticket is progress (in terms of the NTA), the NTA has failed to grasp commuting trends in a working from home environment. Or perhaps they have grasped it fully and are actively trying to discourage public transport usage outside the Dublin City zone to preserve the integrity of these routes (as they are already beyond the beyond swamped at rush hour). People need to grasp reality- the housing crisis is not going away in the next five years- the populations of Meath, Kildare and Wicklow will continue to rapidly accelerate. Since everything is centred around Dublin, people will need to commute there for the foreseeable future.

Scrapping the 90 minute fare in Balbriggan, Naas, and Greystones is also a tragedy.

From a higher level perspective, while it does make the fair system more equitable, nothing in this document is going to encourage significantly more public transport usage from what I’ve read.

long_b

As a matter of interest, anyone know where did they got that Newbridge to Dublin Heuston is "currently €10.85" ?

Is that just an old price (as it currently is €8.45) ?

B2021M

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667256#Comment_121667256

Does anyone know if this issue may be addressed? In particular making it available to all employees and self employed.

TheChrisD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667757#Comment_121667757

The 90-minute fare is already down to €2 from the initially mooted €2.50, when all fares were reduced as part of the cost of living abatement measures. If anything, it will head up to that €2.50 mark in the next couple years.

Trampas

Ill look forward to James lawless celebrating newbridge and Kildare price drop but falling to acknowledge or try put some slant on the 30% increase in sallins.

I sometimes get the train from sallins but more hazelhatch as roughly same distance away when you take into driving with and train but I prefer hazelhatch as was more parking and I go through the tunnel so better option than go via the luas. Work on the train also if quite. This increase makes my decision easier to make

Polar101

I wonder if that new zone is going to include other bus services like the 139? I use that particular route a lot, but while the fares are similar to the 90 minute ticket, they don't count towards the leap cap (or have the 90 minute transfer).

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667916#Comment_121667916

€8.45 is the discounted online fare.

The single fare bought at the booking office or TVM is €10.85 (or €10.45 after 09:30).

long_b

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668656#Comment_121668656

That's odd - it's always €16.90 from either the machines or the kiosk (I don't use online booking )

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668705#Comment_121668705

It’s not odd at all, as Intercity return fares have always been cheaper than two singles.

There is also an off-peak promotional fare available after 09:30 Monday-Saturday and all day Sunday of €10.45 single / €11.45 day return from the ticket office / TVM.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666959#Comment_121666959

The fare determination document specifically states that there will be minor increases to intercity fares. If the fare structures are distanced-based, it makes sense that longer intercity journeys will go up in price.

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665474#Comment_121665474

The fare difference essentially pays for the parking in Bray or Shankill, for a more frequent service (for those of us that park and ride, and could use any of the 3 stations).

long_b

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668726#Comment_121668726

Ah - I see. Apologies - I didn't think the one way would be more expensive.

Does this mean the new price of the return ticket could be less than €12 = 2 x €6 single tickets then ?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668869#Comment_121668869

The vast majority will not change, but some may over a number of years, but the change won’t be massive as your question asked.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669024#Comment_121669024

No - the fare structure is being changed for the likes of Newbridge to join the Dublin Commuter zone.

Trips within that zone will now have a simplified fare structure where a return equals the price of two single fares.

Trips outside the zone to other InterCity stations will still use the Intercity fares matrix.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668617#Comment_121668617

I'm well aware of that.

However if the government is serious about encouraging folks onto public transport and serious about climate change, then I believe they need to subsidise it more and make it more affordable.

I've mentioned before that I'm not in favour of completely free fares like some people call for, however I am very much in favour of them making it more affordable. At the very least guarantee to keep the €2/€1 fare for the next 10 years, but sure why not make it even cheaper, make it €1.50, vastly simplify and speed up the bus journey times by removing driver interaction and thus make public transport more attractive to even more people.

Also I really like the idea of the €365 annual fare.

These sort of prices are normal for public transport across Europe, make it more affordable and I can see many motorists reconsidering taking the car.

Glaceon

Drogheda, as well as Gormanston and Laytown, are some of the big winners with this review. It has always been the case that once you went from Balbriggan to Gormanston, you were in intercity territory and the fare jumped up significantly. A day return from Drogheda to Dublin by train is €19.50 at the moment, it will drop to €12 (€6 each way) once this comes in.

Does this include Bus Éireann too? If so, it does mean an increase on the 101/X bus routes (from €5.04), although it doesn't really affect me now as I get the train the vast majority of the time.

While nothing has been said of it, I could see the Enterprise skipping Drogheda entirely once this comes in, or at least the €6 ticket not being valid on it. But maybe I'm wrong.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669011#Comment_121669011

Bus to Bray then the Dart will still be €2 as far as I can tell - the document is a bit vague but my reading is that all (non-Xpresso) Dublin City bus services are still €2 and include the 90 minute transfer, even if they go outside the City zone. The City zone is only really relevant for rail and regional bus services.

Dart from Bray to Dublin is €2, Greystones is €3.90, nearly twice the price. It's the only current Dart station falling outside the City zone. The removal of the annual rail-only ticket (€1150) will mean an increase for anyone who is still using that as well. The all-modes ticket is €1400 but in my experience rail commuters generally only use rail so won't get €250 worth of extra use.

I feel they should have started this fare restructuring with the principle that no Leap fares would increase. The local Green TD campaigned for Greystones to be included in the cheaper zone 5 to get the fare down from €4 to €3, less than a year later it's being bumped back up again. it's a terrible look with a Green minister for transport.

Macy0161

Said TD was on the Commuter this morning, albeit from Bray! I don't want to overegg the cost pudding (frequency is a lot to do with it too), but it is one of the factors why no one I know from where I live in the mountains who commutes by dart/ rail from Greystones, despite it being significantly nearer.

Kittykat67

Hi not sure where to ask this question. I just got my first leap card, is it OK to keep it in my phone or will that affect it. I know some types of cards the mobile phone makes them stop working but does this happen with a leap card? Thanks

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121670367#Comment_121670367

It is fine, your phone shouldn't impact the Leap card.

Kittykat67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121670442#Comment_121670442

Perfect thanks for your help.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121670442#Comment_121670442

Seems that old type of magnetic cards would be more sensitive to phone. I would rather avoid keeping cards too close to phone, but you might be right to say and newer types of cards are more resilient.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121672243#Comment_121672243

Yep, magnetic strip cards would be impacted, in particular magsafe on newer iphones could demagnetise them.

Leap cards use NFC that work in a completely different way and wouldn't be impacted. For years I kept my Leap card in the back of my phone case without issue.

Though in a couple of years, when they roll out the next gen ticketing, then you could have issues with card clashes on readers. But then most will probably just use their phone instead of the Leap card.

B2021M

Does anyone know the effective date of the fare changes in Dublin (e.g. the proposed 960 euro annual ticket)?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122210688#Comment_122210688

Before the end of Q3. Nothing more precise than that.

Probably sometime in September.