The accelerating fall in Sinn Féin support

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391171#Comment_122391171

As I said one criminal killing another one.

Good for you for supporting them and making excuses for their criminal activities. Let us know how you get on with that

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391229#Comment_122391229

You said how did killing martin cahill help those up the north, I pointed out he flogged paintings to loyalists thus financing them. When the IRA killed him that never happened again.

Sincerly sorry for pointing out those facts!

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391279#Comment_122391279

It didn't help anyone in the North

You came up with one story and then another.

Either story didn't help the people of Northern Ireland and is just criminals killing criminals

"facts" how can anyone call what you posted facts?

You are just embarrassed, and should be, for making up excuses for criminals.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391298#Comment_122391298

So martin cahill selling artwork to loyalists is just a story? According to who?- cloclo on the internet?!

Him getting killed certainly did help the loyalist funding eh.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391298#Comment_122391298

i m sure it helped some provo big buy another holiday home in Bulgaria

same as the smuggling, drug dealer taxing, heavy machinery thefts, bank robberies, sub contracting to narco terrorists, kidnapping for ransom amoung other fundraising efforts to keep the volunteers in beer and holiday homes :-)

Bobson Dugnutt

The PIRA were always seen as being little more than a bunch of scumbags. They enjoyed almost no popular support apart from during the hunger strikes. It was organisation known for scratchy jumpers, young lads being kneecapped, some rough looking baldy rattling a bucket in the pub, cheap diesel, farms and quarry pits straddling both sides of the border.

Good PR in fairness. Adams has gone from being widely regarded as a pure and cold-blooded psychopath to a cuddly old grandfather.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391279#Comment_122391279

All you are explaining is rivalry between two different groups of sectarian thugs. That doesn't justify killing anyone, even if he was as undesirable as they were.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391365#Comment_122391365

Killing him in 1994, after he sold paintings to them in 1986, stopped what funding exactly?

It certainly helped with funding of either the provos or the dissidents when they got their fee from John Gilligan though.

Bobtheman

Firstly does anybody in this state trust the government to curtail anything even things it wants to.

Secondly all parties are talking tough now but no mainstream party is talking zero refugees. Perhaps ind Ireland.

There is already a discussion on the decline of SF and God knows how many refugee threads.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122144449#Comment_122144449

What the **** happened at the locals then.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391577#Comment_122391577

This is the thread on the fall in Sinn Fein support.

Bobtheman

To be fair how anybody can say immigration is their number 1 issue is beyond me.

We don't have a housing crisis because of refugees

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391565#Comment_122391565

A cop in the article I linked said doing business with loyalists cost him his life. Were paintings sold in 86, says who? Loyalists were caught with them in 1990. Bought them in 86 n kept them for 4 years - dream on.

I doubt it was his only rodeo with them.

Killing him in 1994 certainly curtailed any future endeavors with loyalists.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391784#Comment_122391784

Killing him allowed the drug dealer who happened to be directing a share of his drug money towards the provos to step up and take over the void left by Cahill.

The paintings were stolen by Cahill in 1986, hidden in the Wicklow mountains for a short period and then sold on.

The ones supposedly sold to the UVF were recovered in Istanbul in 1990 - the UVF didn't keep them and weren't caught with them, they had sold them.

Other paintings were recovered in London in 1992, and in Antwerp in 1993.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392473#Comment_122392473

Don't tell me a newspaper of the quality of "The Mirror" didn't have the correct information 😂

What is the World coming to

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392473#Comment_122392473

This article has the Turkish police raiding a hotel room and uvf men present in 1990. Another article names billy wright as uvf contact for buying pictures. Living in Dublin n doing deals with billy wright in the early 90s can be bad for ones life expectancy.

Poor cloclo can't quite grasp the link.

https://www.dib.ie/biography/cahill-martin-a1366

Screenshot_20240717-175121-730.png

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391689#Comment_122391689

…very true, but when theres little or no response from elected officials for years, scapegoat's are required, and the ould foreigners are perfect for this, when we re finished blaming them, it ll be interesting to see who we ll blame then, when we ll still have major housing problems…..

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392896#Comment_122392896

And the IRA waited 4 years to act?

Just a coincidence that in 1994 the drug dealer paying off republicans happened to want Cahill out of his way - and was willing to pay for the service

Esel

I thought the conventional wisdom at the time was that Cahill was murdered as a result of the UVF bomb attack on the Widow Scanlon's pub on Pearse Street during which an IRA member was shot dead. The pub was apparently a hangout for IRA members, so they would understandably be out for blood after the attack…

Also, can we drop the 'P' prefix on the terms IRA and SF please? That is well out of date - we all know which IRA and which SF we are talking about. To my understanding, the only ones who regularly used PIRA etc. were the UK security forces (official and otherwise).

Using these terms here is completely unnecessary, outdated, and Provocative - like the famous SF/IRA umbrella term.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122393404#Comment_122393404

whats wrong with sf/ira ?

theres plenty that were members of both or one then the other .

sf consistently try to ignore or re write history to distance itself from the atrocities that it was involved with through this armed wing.

i dont see a problem with reminding people of that given that sf itself is so eager that people to forget it

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122393404#Comment_122393404

The provo-prefix is relevant when discussing the Cahill & Gilligan, as Gilligan had ties into both PIRA and RIRA during the 90s.

The Widow Scanlan’s attack was one theory at the time - but the alternative theory (which Veronica Geurin’s brother claimed is the theory believed by the investigating Gardaí) was that the Widow Scanlan’s story was a cover story to keep Gilligan’s involvement hidden

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122393404#Comment_122393404

I disagree, clarity is always needed. There is no link between the PIRA of the 1980s and the IRA of the 1920s. That needs to be understood by all.

Esel

Fair enough, agree to differ.

It is not an acronym I have ever used myself, so it seems a bit alien to me, for want of a better word.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122394226#Comment_122394226

While I assume the logic behind your argument is that the IRA of the (early) 1920s became our state army, it's a bit ridiculous to claim there is no link, Blanch.

There is quite obviously a direct link, with the PIRA coming about from the split of the anti-treaty side of the IRA, which obviously came about from the pro/anti treaty split of the IRA of 1919-1921.

This isn't to argue the legitimacy of the PIRA as the, 'sole successors' to the Old IRA as they claim, nor is it saying the history of the Rising belongs to them.....but saying there is no link is pretty absurd.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122392896#Comment_122392896

Others have already answered so won’t repeat

In terms of me “grasping the link” well as I said it was criminals killing criminals. It did nothing for the people of NorthernIreland.

I think you have actually managed to prove that while trying not to prove it. So thanks

My original point, the PIRA was nothing more than a criminal gang, they didn’t protect the nationalist community, they didn’t achieve a United Ireland.
PSF are just a political wing for criminal, the links now with other criminal gangs now is confirming that as well

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122394321#Comment_122394321

its a bit more complex than that now isnt is ? Anti treaty split followed by another split during ww2 , and another split again during the boarder campaign of the mid to late 50s , and finally another split in 1970 .

current sf has a lot less in common with the "old " ira and more in common with other terrorist gangs like uvf etc. formed as community protection and quickly evolved into terrorizing those same communities and extorting money for their own use.

sf/ira put considerable effort into spinning their own false narrative in fairness and its important that the truth be known

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122394321#Comment_122394321

The IRA and the PIRA have no link

Same as Sinn Fein and Provisional Sinn Fein have no links

It's only PSF who is pushing the link now and trying to chnage history because they seem to want to cover up what the PIRA/PSF did since it was created. Maybe you should ask them why that is

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122390462#Comment_122390462

Sinn Féin councillor Daithí Doolan told Dublin City Council’s Joint Policing Committee that he was aware of one individual who has been acting as an “ambassador” for the protest who is a “convicted drug dealer” and who previously “boasted of flooding Ireland with drugs”.

He added that the same individual has a “political pedigree” through past involvement with the extremist British National Party (BNP).

Protests have been taking place in recent days against the use of the former Crown Paint factory in the north Dublin neighbourhood as accommodation for asylum seekers.

From The Journal

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122393488#Comment_122393488

SF/IRA is most certainly relevant when discussing events before the GFA. After that, it depends on whether you believe SF that the Army Council of the PIRA have disbanded or whether you believe the Chief Constable and the Gardai who say that they remain actively involved in politics.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122394778#Comment_122394778

As I said, I'm not arguing that they have a claim on the heritage or that it makes them in any way defensible....I'm just pointing out that there is NO connection is pretty absurd.

Given that your own point was that it was more complicated than I implied it seems that you acknowledge that there is SOME connection between them.

Other splits happened e.g. Saor Uladh and Saor Eire splintering off etc, but the direct path to PIRA would be Old IRA, the Treaty split between the IRA and the National Army and the Border Campaign split between the IRA and the PIRA.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122395226#Comment_122395226

Just because you repeat what Blanch said doesn't make it true. They're very clearly linked given they came about via (multiple) splits from the old IRA.

As for the SF of Arthur Griffith, I'd argue that FF, FG and the Workers Party have as much of a link as current SF do, but again arguing that there are NO links is just silly.

Not liking SF or the PIRA (I'll happily take your side on both counts) doesn't mean you can pretend history doesn't actually exist. They have a clear and direct link back in both cases. That doesn't give them any legitimacy, nor does it give them ownership of the history.....but if you're going to argue that there is NO connection, you're going to have to do a bit better than sticking your fingers in your ears and saying, 'nuh uh, they're not connected because I said so'.