The accelerating fall in Sinn Féin support

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122396398#Comment_122396398

The only ones pushing the link is PSF and PIRA supporters

Seems they are embarrassed about PSF and PIRA carry on since it was created.

Jump around for a few more posts on it, it won't change anything. It certainly won't change PSF and their supporters constantly trying to link so bang away

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122396413#Comment_122396413

I genuinely don't understand what point you're trying to make. Literally any history book concerned with modern Irish history will show a connection between the old IRA and the PIRA.

Are you suggesting that all modern Irish historians are compromised by SF? Are you suggesting that they have Wikipedia locked down? Have they got the inside line on the RTE?

If your argument is that the PIRA are not the natural successors of the Old IRA or even that they're not the same as the Old IRA then make that argument; I'd fully agree with it.....but insisting there is absolutely no connection between them is absolutely absurd, totally at odds with reality. A series of splits in the old IRA leads directly to the PIRA, that isn't even remotely debatable.

Can you at least break down which bit you don't believe happened?

1. The Old IRA/Irish Volunteers fought in the War of Independence from 1919-1922
2. The Old IRA split along pro/anti treaty lines in 1922. The pro-treaty side became the Irish defense forces, the anti-treaty side continued to refer to itself as the IRA.
3. The anti-treaty side, still referring to itself as the IRA and clearly directly linked to the Old IRA continued it's campaign with various split-offs. In 1969, the IRA split again due to disagreement on whether SF should continue with abstentionism. Those who wished to drop the abstentionist policy continued on, referring to themselves as Official IRA (which pretty much petered out by the late 1970s), those who did not became Provisional IRA.

The existence of this obvious and direct connection doesn't bestow any legitimacy on the PIRA, nor does it make it OK for them to try claim the history of the Old IRA as their own.....but jesus, it's quite clearly, 'a connection'.

You're essentially trying to argue that a fella's great grandkids aren't connected with him because some of the other great grandkids were better and had more in common with him.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122396558#Comment_122396558

It's as tenable a link as the continuity IRA or the real IRA are to the PIRA.

Calling yourself something does not mean you're actually a legitimate derivative of the original. The original IRA was that led by Collins, it has absolutely zero to do with the Provos, trying to ascertain that they are on the same level is the equivalent that Adams was on the same plane as Griffiths.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122397296#Comment_122397296

Who said anything about being on the same level? Certainly not me, given that I said precisely the opposite right there in the post you've quoted

If your argument is that the PIRA are not the natural successors of the Old IRA or even that they're not the same as the Old IRA then make that argument; I'd fully agree with it.....but insisting there is absolutely no connection between them is absolutely absurd, totally at odds with reality. A series of splits in the old IRA leads directly to the PIRA, that isn't even remotely debatable.

I'll emphasise where I say I would fully agree that they are not the, 'natural successors' of the Old IRA. I'd 100% consider our state forces to occupy that position.

The existence of this obvious and direct connection doesn't bestow any legitimacy on the PIRA, nor does it make it OK for them to try claim the history of the Old IRA as their own.....but jesus, it's quite clearly, 'a connection'.

The Continuity and Real IRA are absolutely linked to the PIRA by the way.

You seem to live in a very black and white world, with zero understanding of the words "link" or "connection".

I haven't stated that they're EQUIVALENT at any point whatsoever. I've said they're connected, which apart from histrionics and hand-wringing, no one has actually made a single argument against. There are two stages of separation from the Old IRA to the PIRA, that's a connection. History doesn't care about your hurt feelings unfortunately. Setting up strawman arguments to suggest I've argued any degree of equivalency is pretty weak.

If a group splits in two, the secondary group obviously has a fecking link to the original group. When McCartney left The Beatles, it didn't turn Wings into The Beatles, but it'd be fecking idiotic to argue they're not linked/connected.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122397595#Comment_122397595

Do you think McCartney should have called Wings the Provisional Beatles given he was a former member or would that be idiotic?

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122397834#Comment_122397834

I'd say it would be a pretty stupid name alright, but I don't think we were having a discussion about how clever the naming of various paramilitary groups was. Are you trying to argue that there is no connection between The Beatles and Wings, and by the same logic there is no connection between the various groups who have called themselves variations of the IRA, or are we agreed finally that there is an obvious connection and now focused on whether the Provo marketing department could've come up with a better name?

MK Don's have a stupid name in the soccer, an obvious allusion to their connection to Wimbledon FC. That AFC Wimbledon arguably have a better connection to Wimbledon FC's history doesn't change the fact that MK Dons are clearly and obviously connected to Wimbledon FC.....even if they have a stupid name and even though the vast majority of Wimbledon FC fans absolutely hate what they did.

There might be a parallel in there if you look hard enough....

JP Liz V1

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/07/20/mary-lou-mcdonald-accuses-government-of-arrogant-and-disrespectful-attitude-to-coolock-residents/

 Mary Lou McDonald has accused the Government of failing to consult residents in Coolock over the proposed siting of an international protection centre in the area.

Ms McDonald has written to Taoiseach Simon Harris stating there had been no engagement with the community in Coolock “despite repeated claims to the contrary”. She has offered to work with him to find a solution to the recent stand-off.

“The community was given no opportunity to ask questions, to raise concerns or to get clarity and assurances. This failure to engage is arrogant and disrespectful to a community that has been neglected and forgotten for generations,” she wrote.

The letter follow meetings she had with community groups in Coolock, where, she claimed, “anger and frustration felt across the community was articulated time and again”.

She urged the Government to start a process of engagement with the community in Coolock through interlocutors, though she didn’t state who those mediators might be.

“The community in Coolock will, in my opinion, respond positively and constructively to genuine dialogue and engagement. This is a decent, proud community who must be heard.”

The Sinn Féin leader admitted last week that the party had got the issue of immigration wrong following a disastrous performance in the local elections where it got just 11.8 per cent of the vote.

Speaking after last Saturday’s Ard Comhairle meeting, Ms McDonald said the concerns of many people within working-class communities about immigration had not been taken seriously.

It was wrong to dismiss their concerns as being “sidelined or branded. We need to move away from that.

JVince

So mlmd is giving in to utter scumbags and thugs

Back scraping the bottom of the barrel.

That's one hell of a U-turn

Francie Barrett

https://www.twitter.com/ThoughtsToby/status/1814656352712610110

Sinn Fein are an absolute disgrace.

They've got into bed with the far-left, and now they are trying to play both sides with this false concerns for the people of Coolock.

We see through you Mary-Lou, zero votes for this shower in the next election.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406056#Comment_122406056

Regardless of persuasion, we can all agree that Sinn Fein are traitors.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406007#Comment_122406007

Jesus as much as I despise ff/fg for what they are doing, at least they don’t flip flop like these chancers just to try fool the electorate.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406056#Comment_122406056

I think they had to get off the fence finally, and as "opposition" they were doing fcek all, saying fcek all

Denise Mitchell is the SF TD for the Coolock area, has she done anything, as in visited the area, commented, engaged with the people who voted her in?

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406157#Comment_122406157

It be great to have an actual proper opposition, Independent Ireland is too small unless more independents join

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406131#Comment_122406131

God our politics in this country is fucked, there's no affective opposition what so ever.

blackwhite

Clearly the best and the brightest of proofreaders working in MLMDs office.
Published 8 hours ago and they still haven’t copped to fixed the glaring typo at the start

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406205#Comment_122406205

She and her party they just dont get it.

How can a party be so incompetent.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406213#Comment_122406213

It is easy to throw out comments about lack of govt engagement with the locals, but if the locals dont want the asylum centre full stop, how much difference does the engagement make in the end.

The govt should engage, of course. But engagement doesnt mean peoples opinions will change.