Attic Conversion - 30 minute fire doors requirements for dwelling

rocketspocket

Hi All,

We're converting our attic to a bedroom (with en-suite) and in order to comply with the planning our architect is requiring to change all 'useable room ' doors in our property to be 30min fire safe (5 doors in total). No issue with this need however the doors we have are 90-years old and compliment the property where as the replacement (fire cert) door are not great.

Question: Has anyone gone through the process of upgrading existing doors to comply with this fire/planning regulation? How does it work/rough costs involved? Architect says there is a company/product called ENVIROGRAF that may give us what we need but no idea where to start and the only ireland distributor is based up north.

Thanks..

Mellor

It’s nothing to do with planning. It’s a building regulation.

As you are adding a story, it becomes a 3 story house, which needs a fire protected corridor. This means walls and doors need to be 30mins fire rated. Alternatively you’d need a fire engineered solution

Gumbo

Are you converting the attic?

You may not need to change the doors. You may only need to retrofit self closing devices to the existing doors entering the protected stair core if you can demonstrate they achieve 20 minutes fire resistance.

The door material can be inspected, the type and density of the timber door can be used to demonstrate 20 minutes FR.

rocketspocket

Yep. Attic conversion to a bedroom. Architect stated 30 minute requirement but now looking if how to go about enhancing the doors to meet this requirement

rocketspocket

What do you mean by 'fire engineered solution'?

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121749455#Comment_121749455

I thought the requirement was 30mins? If the walls are also 90-years old, may need to review them also.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121749571#Comment_121749571

The requirements outlined above is most straight way to ensure the top story as time to escape. Sometimes the straight forward solution is not possible, and the same level of safety is provided in other means. Typically engineering. More common in larger commercial buildings. If the existing can be upgrade, I'd go that route.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756180#Comment_121756180

https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/220400/3efededb-832c-4757-945e-066e20df9e46.pdf#page=null

20 minutes requirement, but in reality, most doors are tested to 30 or 60 minute standards.

Point 5 in the attached guidance.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121812026#Comment_121812026

Thanks. Interesting that it references part B, but has a slightly more relaxed requirement .

Fair point about new doors tested to 30mins as standard. But 20mins may be easier for existing solid doors to achieve compliance.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121818064#Comment_121818064

I think that’s the reasoning behind it tbh honest. To allow existing doors to remain in place with a simple self closing device to be retrofitted.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121818213#Comment_121818213

Makes sense to me. The reality is very few conversions for for the proper fire door, proper fire rated walls etc. Better to have an achievable target.

Kincora2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121818728#Comment_121818728

i would hope you’re inaccurate on your last assumption. Yes, the fire door requirement is rarely implemented in attic conversions, but a taped 12.5mm plasterboard with plaster will achieve 30 mins on walls and ceilings.

one thing that needs to happen to get people to fully comply with Part B on attic conversions is to take the scaremongering out of the onerous requirements for fully fire rated construction. Contractors are using that line to get a non compliant approach past their clients which really isn’t acceptable

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121818728#Comment_121818728

Agree.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121818759#Comment_121818759

It’s not only the taped 12.5mm board. It’s the timber behind it. Minimum sizing and density. It’s the penetrations and breaches. How many light switches and plug sockets that breach the board lining? Are they fire stopped behind it? Putty pads, board engagement etc

Agree that the scaremongering is over exaggerated. It’s not that hard to comply and only requires a small amount of additional work.

Kincora2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121818926#Comment_121818926

- I over simplified it with the 12.5 board comment but totally agree on the sentiment. It shouldn’t be seen as a big deal to get compliance up on this and in the end of the day it will save somebody’s life at some point.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121818759#Comment_121818759

The typical existing PB wall does not meet 30mins rating. For the reasons list about, plus others such as gaps, mastics, junction details etc.

The upgrades required depend on the exist walls. Im not encouraging avoiding the regs. I’m saying that’s simply what happens.