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March 8th - What’s your vote? **Mod Note In Post #677**

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    #332
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 13,437 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    I am voting YES (family amendment)
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121841144#Comment_121841144

    You certainly can.. If you want to :)

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


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    #333
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Voting YES for both
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121843567#Comment_121843567


    Only 1 group that I can see

    No disabled persons groups are supporting a Yes in the care referendum.

    Independent Living Movement Ireland had been calling for Yes but withdrew that. I have not seen anything saying they are calling for a No Vote

    Inclusion Ireland have said article 42B isn't in line with UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. They haven't specifically called for a No Vote.

    There is an organisation formed a few weeks ago called "equality not care" calling for a No Vote.

    So there is 1 disability group specifically calling for a No Vote

    On the other hand if you look widely at twitter at #VoteYesNo - there are many many disabled people calling for Yes in family referendum and No in care referendum.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #334
    KevMayo88
    Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭KevMayo88


    Voting NO for both

    Neal Richmond has said on the Clare Byrne show that a "durable relationship" would be means for immigrants to bring family members over. It is stunning he would admit to this, the mask is off.



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    #335
    Oscar_Madison
    Registered Users Posts: 5,876 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    NO to both.

    No clear compelling reason to change wording - ironically had it been slipped into a more important referendum it would likely have been passed - too many questions and too little and unclear answers



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    #336
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Voting YES for both

    Good summary thread here about why many disabled people are calling for a No on the care referendum

    https://twitter.com/AlannahEMurray/status/1764572619880222733?t=1zLu1iJw0f0h4cp7QGriYw&s=19


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #337
    KevMayo88
    Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭KevMayo88


    Voting NO for both
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849027#Comment_121849027

    It was actually The Tonight Show in an exchange with Clare Brock:

    Neal Richmond: “And this is what I want to get to the key point of, changing what the definition of family is ... this has serious consequences particularly when we think of immigration law, and proving that somebody is a family member, family law, family reunification this will allow that to happen as well, so we’re keeping up to pace with other communities.”

    Clare Brock: “So you’re talking about durable relationships?”

    Neil Richmond: “Absolutely, yeah”.



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    #338
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Voting YES for both

    Good thread clarifying a lot about the family referendum and highlighting the scaremongering nonsense

    https://twitter.com/wendylyon/status/1764314126648492523?t=K9EiRNENvIZtgoOLJy17QA&s=19


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #339
    dulpit
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Voting YES for both
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849027#Comment_121849027

    The fact that this is being brought up tells me the mask is off for the no side - the typical no immigrants message...



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    #340
    xzanti
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 10,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭xzanti


    Voting NO for both

    No to both!



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    #341
    KevMayo88
    Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭KevMayo88


    Voting NO for both
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849147#Comment_121849147

    Richmond specifically said the amendment could be used to bring yet even more immigrants into Ireland- I think we have far too many as it is, and I certainly won't be voting for anything that could be used to exasserbate the situation going forward. Ireland needs less immigration, not more.



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    #342
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Voting NO for both
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849147#Comment_121849147

    That's nonsense and you know it.

    Having concerns that this referendum could have unintended consequences for family reunification doesn't make you anti-immigrant.

    Especially when we've had a previous referendum had lead to unintended consequences for immigration.



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    #343
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,598 ✭✭✭MacDanger



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849071#Comment_121849071

    I'm currently undecided on both and I'm looking for something that would provide some clarity; was hoping the link above would but there's really not much in it e.g. the "slide" about the suggested wording from the citizens assembly isn't actually wording that could have been put into the constitution.

    I'd love some information on what specifically will happen in terms of X, Y, Z (e.g. tax, care obligations, etc.) that are not happening now but would be allowed to happen if the votes are passed.

    From what I can gather so far, neither vote will really have much practical impact whatsoever



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    #344
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,744 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Voting YES for both
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849475#Comment_121849475

    I have a couple of friends who have children with disabilities and they are going to vote no because they’re concerned about the level of supports and funding and how a Yes vote might impact them but that doesn’t have anything to do with the referendum.

    Even that Alannah O’Neill link above doesn’t seem to involve the referendum. This isn’t about funding or supports. All that is up for changing is the scope of who carers can be.

    Then others seem to think it’s like the Nice Treaty and will be improved and offered again if it’s defeated but considering the lack of government appetite to even run this one there is pretty much no chance we’ll see this again if it doesn’t go through. I would suggest that a Yes vote, with a convincing majority, would show the government that the people are very interested in improving care within the state.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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    #345
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Voting YES for both
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849475#Comment_121849475


    Dr Maeve O'Rourke and Mairead Enright have written more specifics re care. You won't get anything really specific on tax implications.

    https://maeveorourke.medium.com/a-right-to-care-and-the-care-referendum-on-8-march-9d6bdc7834ba
    https://ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk/womens-invisible-labour-kinkeeping-and-care-irelands-8-march-constitutional-referendum/


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #346
    Dazler97
    Registered Users Posts: 2,500 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    I don't know what I'm voting for ,I'll do research this week as I don't wanna vote blind etc



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    #347
    Glaceon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    I am voting NO (family amendment)
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849424#Comment_121849424

    Immigration didn't come into it for me at all. I just feel that "durable relationship" is too ambiguous and could have unintended consequences.



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    #348
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,598 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849562#Comment_121849562

    Thanks, that first link provides a pretty clear summary of the No position on the Care referendum IMO



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    #349
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,598 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849561#Comment_121849561

    I guess that's a big question - would a No vote result in an "improved offer"? I probably agree that it wouldn't in the short/medium term anyway, once you get into the details of the actual wording of these things, it can be a lot more difficult than you'd think as the current govt have found out. If the referenda are rejected, I'm not sure there'll be a massive appetite from politicians to go after it again



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    #350
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users Posts: 8,463 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    Voting YES for both
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849475#Comment_121849475

    The Citizens Assembly put forward their proposals to the government but apparently the Attorney General had a problem with them so changed them to the mess we have now.



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    #351
    AyeGer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    I’ve decided to go No for both. The durable relationship is far too vague. I’m not sure what exactly the motivation is to even have this vote in the first place. If it’s really important they'll have us vote again and they might address some of the concerns people have.



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    #352
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,744 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Voting YES for both
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849715#Comment_121849715

    Neither amendment goes far enough, in my opinion, but they’re going far enough to remove the church influenced nonsense of the women in the home and the sole carer so I’m voting for that.

    The poor state care, or support, is a fight for another day. A No vote won’t be getting this government to rethink anything, they’ll just be glad to be shot of something they barely care about that was landed on them by the citizens’ assembly.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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    #353
    KevMayo88
    Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭KevMayo88


    Voting NO for both
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849979#Comment_121849979

    "...the church influenced nonsense of the women in the home"- try actually reading the existing passage in the constitution.



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    #354
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,744 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Voting YES for both
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850070#Comment_121850070

    I have the “independent guide” in front of me, has a very simple explanation of what is there, what is proposed and what will change.

    Here, how come the MRAs aren’t fighting for a Yes vote? They, usually, get their backs up when women get something they don’t.

    The Care Amendment is a prime example of women having rights, or responsibilities, that men don’t have. Time for equality.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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    #355
    Danny Drier
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Danny Drier


    Vote No to both and try and preserve a bit of normalcy in the country.



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    #356
    downtheroad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,034 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Voting NO for both
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791913#Comment_121791913

    Has anyone managed to find out this answer? It will be a firm no for me if we have no legal definition of "durable relationship".



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    #357
    downtheroad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,034 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Voting NO for both
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121843154#Comment_121843154

    Revenue only allows joint tax assessment for married couples or civil partners.

    But Dept of Social Protection evaluates cohabiting couples jointly when means testing for benefits.

    The State has it both ways in its favour there.

    I'm reading this referendum booklet and it is truly woeful. No examples given on the impacts of a yes or no vote.



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    #358
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,407 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Voting NO for both

    Looking increasingly like a No No- Varadkar looked and sounded absolutely pathetic and desperate today - speaking from his “safe space” in ranelagh. Seems they’ve given up completely on middle Ireland- concentrating completely on what they represent- the south Dublin bourgeoisie



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    #359
    dulpit
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Voting YES for both

    For the people advocating a Yes/No - is the primary issue with the care wording that it doesn't go far enough? Or is there something specifically wrong with the wording that will make things worse? I ask as the father of a child with intellectual disabilities and my initial reading of the wording doesn't look like it will change anything for us (positively or negatively).



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