Varadkar: "It's not the state's responsibility (to provide a home and an education)"

zell12

Journal prints Varadkar comments

“My experience of life, and I’m sure it’s most people’s experience of life, my parents brought me up. They cared for me. When they’re old, I’m going to make sure they’re looked after. God forbid if something happened to either of my sisters, I’ll make sure that my nephews and nieces are looked after, that they’ve a home, they’ve an education. I don’t actually think that’s the State’s responsibility, to be honest. I do think that is very much a family responsibility, but families deserve the support of the State, and that’s really what this article will say, this new part of the Constitution."

https://www.thejournal.ie/taoiseach-care-referendum-6319144-Mar2024/

lumphammer2

This is a classic example of taking something a politician says ... and running with it out of context ... it works especially when it is one like Varadkar who represents for many all that is wrong wrt an out of touch ruling class ...

The FULL quote says a lot more than the partial quote taken out of context ... but that does not stop the Varadkar haters from spreading the partial quote for all it is worth ... for many it is not what was said but Varadkar represents all they think is wrong with Ireland ...

In fairness Varadkar did not exactly shine as a leader ... he is often weak and indecisive ... Covid 19 was proof of that ... at first equating to this exact time 4 years ago he was committing Ireland to a South Korean style approach rightly resisting calls for lockdown ... but succumbed to very stringent 2KM stay at home orders days later ... he stood up for people again some 7 months later when lockdowns were again recommended only to succumb once again to draconian (and largely unneeded) measures once more ...

Varadkar's attitude to Covid is his attitude to other problems too ... he lacks the conviction to deal with something himself ... and often relies on very poor advice from supposed 'experts' .... this is true for Covid, for the housing crisis, for refugee mgt, for all issues .... as a result Varadkar has become an easy target ....

By all means Varadkar has his good points and is not a monster .... and I'd much rather him than many of the clowns leading/potentially leading other countries .... Varadkar is right regarding standing up to Netanyahu and has made Ireland more open and more accepting for minorities .... but he is also prone to gaffs and saying things like the current example in context that can be used out of context !!

well24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121854273#Comment_121854273

VAT would be the one ppl dont include / think off... it would bring it up to in and around 50% for the majority I would say

well24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121857647#Comment_121857647

Stats please, where are you getting this from?

Also, how about irish ppl who do buy houses but are mortgaged up to the hilt (incl high interest rates) for years... They might be able to "afford" the house but little else in their lives...

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121859713#Comment_121859713

As pointed out earlier in the thread, average tax rate across the economy as a whole is about 37% of modified GNI. (GNI is bascially the total amount of income earned by all of a country's people and businesses; in Ireland we have modified GNI to exclude the largely fictional corporate earnings that are routed through Ireland for tax purposes but have no real connection with the country.)

So, if total tax rate accross the economy as a whole (including all taxes, social insurance contributions, VAT, stamp duty, motor tax, the lot) comes to 37% of total earning in the economy, it's hard to see how more than 50% of people can be paying more than 50% of their earnings in total tax.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121859722#Comment_121859722

Stats are all available on web. Plenty of threads on here with all of it discussed in detail on well

In terms of buying a house or not, that is a decision people have to make based on their own situations. Nothing wrong with people renting if they feel that is better for them.

well24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121859788#Comment_121859788

Might be hard to see.. but unless some one does the math we will never know for sure...

As I mentioned you can pay up to 40% after TFA, then you add USC, PRSI on top of that.

Then you have the other taxes - property tax, motor tax, tv license (which in effect is a tax) etc

Then you pay 13.5 up to 23% VAT on everything you buy..

All in all quite high, I would say is definitely over 37% for alot of middle income and above earners!

well24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121859879#Comment_121859879

TBH rent is far higher than a mortgage so is unlikely to be a better option for most, so my post still stands

well24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121859879#Comment_121859879

To quote you in this thread

"You are aware the majority of the population own a house and that rate of home ownership is growing, not decreasing"

"As I already posted the majority of houses are been bought by people in Ireland to live in and the home ownership rates are increasing with a huge majority owning house"

You have said this but provided no evidence of this or link to show this? why?

Can you point me to specific comments where this information is officially shown in the many threads you mention this is covered in?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121859908#Comment_121859908

Since 37% is the overall average, it's over 37% for many taxpayers. But very hard to see how it can be over 50% of income for over 50% of taxpayers.

There's a fundamental error in taking the top marginal rate of 40% and then adding other taxes to try to get to 50% of earnings. If your trying to add up different taxes to estimate the percentage of total earnings taken in tax, then it's a person's average tax rate that is relevant, not their marginal rate.

A single person on the median employment earnings of €41,800, no other income,, paying no pension contributions and claiming no other special tax deductions will pay 11% of their earnings in income tax, and a further 6.4% in PRSI and USC - that comes to 17.4%. You're going to struggle to make VAT on their spending, motor tax, property tax, TV licence, etc add up to another 32.6% of their income, which is what you need to get to 50%.

Even if you give your hypothetical taxpayer twice the median employment earnings, €83,600, they're still only paying 33.3% of their earning in income tax, PRSI and USC; that's still a big gap from 50% to cover by cobbling together motor tax and the TV licence.

There may be some taxpayers who do pay more than 50% of their earnings in aggregate taxes, but they are a very small (and very highly-paid) group.

NSAman

Isn’t LV talking in “far right” terms there? Hmmmm

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121859879#Comment_121859879

There is nothing wrong with renting once you throw away this "get on the property ladder" marketing. And in the end Ireland will have to go down the rental path in the end because it represents the only realistic possibility of solving Ireland's chronic housing problem, it's just that it is going to take a whole lot more pain for us to get there.

However at the moment Ireland lacks most of the infrastructure necessary to make renting a realistic option for most people, even in the city. The philosophy at least in the Germanic part of Europe is that you don't spend more than 20% of your monthly income on accommodation and you rent a property appropriate to your station in life. So young people rent smaller or shared properties, families obviously rent larger properties and not so obvious pensioners move to smaller properties in the country in early retirement, moving to city properties later when they need access to greater healthcare etc.. And we clearly don't have either the legal framework or stock of properties to support that.

And at the moment the Irish taxpayer is financing most of housing market either via mortgages or taxes for public housing and clearly that is not sustainability. So financing of a stock of properties necessary to build a proper rental market needs to be addressed. Presumably as in other EU states that would require pension funds, trusts, public bodies and like institutions be required to finance it. And again that needs a legal framework to be put in place.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860053#Comment_121860053

The German market also has loads of apartments. My relations live in Germany and they rent an apartment. Apartment is lovely and blocks of apartments all around. When you walk around the area every few mins you have fully functioning playgrounds and each with a different theme. Also parks for barbecues etc.

Ireland needs to do large investments into apartment complex's for renting and also for buying. The 3-4 bed house "with a nice garden" doesn't work anymore for the population. Especially when you consider we don't ahve the excellent public transport system they have in Germany. My relations don't have a car, don't think they will ever need a car. A bike is the big expense

well24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860011#Comment_121860011

Fair enough, I get your point.. just seems like we pay alot.. their are other hidden taxes - stamp duty, dirt etc etc sure theirs plenty more

I think because you are taxed on everything you do it gives the allusion that you pay alot of your wages in tax..

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856258#Comment_121856258

It is a bit rich for a supporter of government or indeed any of our main political parties in the Dail to talk about honesty, reasonable discussion and good faith.

Where has there been any discussion on fact we now have effectively open borders?

Allowing thousands of people into our country with no identification is open borders by any sane definition.

And as I said earlier it doesn't matter if what was reported was true or not, everyone of the failings I have highlighted of Varadker, his party and his government are true.

Or maybe you haven't bothered to notice the major hospital in our third largest city had to suspend elective surgeries for a couple of days?

Maybe you haven't been to A&E and have to sit there for hours on end with an elderly relative watching old people curled up hoping they are seen to and that they might get a bed?

Maybe you haven't noticed the fact antisocial behaviour has risen drastically and the lack of police on our streets?

Maybe you haven't noticed that our tourist industry has been decimated in parts of the country?

Maybe you haven't noticed the number of highly skilled Irish people leaving this country because they can't afford to live here anymore and they are tired of living with their parents?

Maybe you haven't noticed students can no longer afford to go away to college because there is no reasonably priced accommodation?

Maybe you don't have kids sitting in prefabs for years because government and the state can't manage to build schools ahead of time?

Hell they only know about future secondary school numbers for 5 or 6 years ahead of time.

Maybe they use the same planning rational as that new hospital.

Usually the ones that are not in any way affected by the above are the ones crowing about anyone challenging the myths put out by the government and other parties.

And yes I am angry.

So are a lot of others that are affected by the above.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860354#Comment_121860354

Another party political broadcast, they get more interesting each time.

I never noticed any of the above at all, I do notice a lot of this is been blown up by people to seem like nobody can work/live/study in Ireland anymore

JupiterKid

The exact wording Leo said in that interview may have been taken out of context, but it sums up his and his inept government’s attitude to their people and electorate. Contempt.

An entire generation of younger people denied the ability to ever own a home as a result of the government’s deliberate financialisation of our housing system and outsourcing social housing to the private rented sector. The State outbidding first-time home buyers in snapping up the little quantity of housing on the market for social housing because they can’t (read: won’t) build new social housing on the scale that is urgently needed.

Following a century of great progress on housing, most of it achieved whilst we were a poor nation, home ownership has declined from its peak of 80% in 1991 to below 65% and dropping sharply in 2024. 

Homelessness and child homelessness at record levels. An education system in complete under-funded and under-resourced disarray. A healthcare system at breaking point. 

A refugee crisis badly mishandled by an utterly inept government. Ireland is a (nominally) very wealthy country but it appears that those in power are simply unwilling to help those who are struggling to keep their heads above water. A pointless and incredibly badly thought-out referendum this coming Friday.

Leo Varadkar - an arrogant, out of touch, spineless spoofer with Thatcherite neo-liberal economic ideology aspirations.

Presiding over a government lacking in vision, lacking in empathy, lacking in ability and lacking in credibility.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121859722#Comment_121859722

AIB made roughly eur768m extra profit last year. Should tell ya something.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058338990/varadkar-its-not-the-states-responsibility-to-provide-a-home-and-an-education

So who is/are Compass Media ?

Seeing as they did the original piece based on LV's interview it's only fair to ask.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121861202#Comment_121861202

THose profits get paid to shareholders which the irish government are, do they not get a large chuck of that?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860104#Comment_121860104

Every country has hidden taxes, in the sense of taxes that aren't income tax and that you have to pay out of earning that have already been subject to income tax. Ireland actually has somewhat lower-than-average taxes of this kind, mainly due to our low property taxes.

well24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860006#Comment_121860006

@Clo-Clo I thought not