Should we regulate the internet?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866820#Comment_121866820

The college should be ensuring people are safe on their grounds! Are you kidding? You think that will solve the problem?

Sorry but you're completely out of touch if you don't see the harm this is doing.

The problem is the idea of a free internet has become normalised. We're too long hearing vested interests telling us limitations can't be done.

Can you imagine if back in 1990 somebody proposed, "I've got this new system where kids can readily access hardcore pornography, share explicit pictures of themselves and other children, and urge each other on to more and more cruel acts of bullying 24/7"

You'd have been rightly dismissed as deranged, evil and dangerous. Yet here we are today and you're trying to tell me we dare not change that same system.

Seth Brundle

You continue to ignore all the valid points put to you in defence of your draconian and unworkable proposal for internet censorship - you cherry pick what you reply to, presumably because your argument is full of holes.

Why are you continuing to ignore the role of the parental responsibility in a child's development?

Whose role is it to ensure that someone walking through a college is safe?

Where is your evidence and research to show that rolling out a draconian censorship system will result in lower sexual attacks?

As has been said earlier, the idea of censoring the internet in order to protect our children won't work as it can easily be bypassed and will also be met with massive opposition. It is the kind of idea from someone who knows the absolute sum of FA on the subject.

CalamariFritti

nutjob idea tbh, its from any totalitarian states wish list. something North Korea might get up to. If anything is proof wrt to whacky ideas people get into their heads when spending too much online its this. just no.

having said that I do agree that all this screen time is ruining kids. but thats on the parents and not on the state and no way should we all move to North Korea cos parents dont do their job and excuse themselves by saying oh all the other kids are doing it what can I do.

also kids will be **** to each other online or not

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867613#Comment_121867613

Getting a steady 40% approval in the poll. Considering this is an anonymous website I'd think that a good sign the public appetite is there for this.

CalamariFritti

Well I count more like 15%.

Even if I thought the idea had merit which I emphatically do not, if nothing else this is nothing any government or any organisation could be trusted with. 100%

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867054#Comment_121867054

The parents of children who committed suicide having been harmed on Instagram, or that were exploited there, to whom that horrible man Zuckerberg apologised recently. Did they not do their job properly?

As for kids being safe in college, they won't be on campus all the time. I'd expect most of the socialising and partying is done off-site. Interesting though that your argument on this echoes the pro-gun lobbyists, who suggest stopping school shootings by bringing armed security to classrooms.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866739#Comment_121866739

I'd say quite similar to a web directory. The difference to those attempted in the 90's being that those listed here are already established larger entities, incentivised to keep their details up to date.

If they want their content available in European homes and public places, they'd best make sure the organisation managing this is aware of their location.

I'd see the role of automation in this in checking sites are available and haven't been compromised.

But I'd agree that deciding who'd be on the list would be difficult. Worth the effort though.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867671#Comment_121867671

Look at the poll again, there are two 'yes' options.

CalamariFritti

Thats what my grandmother used to say about Nazi-Deutschland. That thing with the jews wasnt great but I could walk home on my own at 2 in the morning no bother.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867653#Comment_121867653

Thing is, regulate is vague. Eg I already stated earlier in the thread that I favour regulations but that's more around privacy and the likes of social media providers and search engines breathing ethically. That's very different to a whitelist of which sites we should be about to access. In fact, that insane idea came in later posts.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867716#Comment_121867716

And we actively do interact with social media providers at the EU level to improve moderation of what is or isn't allowed. Equally, people with teens who are actively bullying others teens on the likes of Instagram, I view the parents to be partially at fault for the behavior of their teens. I say this as somebody who was bullied to the point where I almost took my life, the social media platforms are a new problem but equally parents tolerating their children's bullying of others is a serious issue too and is an age old one unfortunately.

You equally seem to be oblivious to the fact that the Internet actively can act as respite for people of all ages who have very difficult lives.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867782#Comment_121867782

Well if you ask ambiguous questions you'll get ambiguous results. People not thinking it's possible could be thinking that for a variety of reasons not just technical ones. No way can you just classify that section as 'approval'. They're effectively saying no.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867786#Comment_121867786

I've said already the wider internet should still be available in licensed premises, pubs etc where age is verified.

I've no interest in controlling or censoring adults whatsoever.

There'll still be the same democratic freedoms and free press that we were just fine with 30 years ago.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867818#Comment_121867818

Only there wouldnt be. Licensed premises where you have to identify yourself. Cant you see it?

CalamariFritti

This is actually silly tbh. I'm bored a bit tonight, but I'm not THAT bored.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867829#Comment_121867829

You're age verified going in the door. Your identity wouldn't be recorded.

Not an issue i don't think.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867856#Comment_121867856

Do they have cubicles? Like for having a ****?

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867856#Comment_121867856

Nobody has ever used a pub underage? 🤣 This is truly one of the most stupid of ideas.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867866#Comment_121867866

If you like? But you can take stuff home with you to enjoy later if you prefer.

You just won't be able to widely share it with children.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867872#Comment_121867872

Unless one in ten 9 year olds, or a quarter of primary school kids, are drinking in pubs then this is a huge improvement.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/31/one-in-10-children-have-watched-pornography-by-time-they-are-nine

From that article, a quote from the UK's children commissioner.

“We urgently need to do more to protect children from the harms of online pornography. It should not be the case that young children are stumbling across violent and misogynistic pornography on social media sites. I truly believe we will look back in 20 years and be horrified by the content to which children were being exposed.”

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867716#Comment_121867716

When exactly did I say when you claim I did? You're lying about what I said presumably to further your stupid proposal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867818#Comment_121867818

You've no intention in censoring adults but what they consume on the Internet must be done in a public place after showing a form of identity. What a fuppin stupid thought!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867856#Comment_121867856

Right, what about when you bring your family in for lunch - will the pub have to switch off their WiFi?

Please rell me that the fact that you're still trying to drag out this gobsh1te idea surely means you're trolling us all?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867983#Comment_121867983

Have you not been arguing for the last few pages that this is a matter of parental responsibility?

Clo-Clo

From the original post:

People will say it's 'up to the parents' but there's only so much parents can do, and let's face it, a lot of parents won't bother.

Plenty of ways for parents to regulate internet for kids

If the parent's don't want to bother their arse the issue is the parent, not the internet.

One eyed Jack

From the OP:

People will say it's 'up to the parents' but there's only so much parents can do, and let's face it, a lot of parents won't bother. 

I know it's next to impossible to control the internet. But I think what's quite possible, at state or EU level, is to make what's available to the general public suitably restricted, through licensing ISPs. There'll still be tech-heads who'll be able to access what they want, I'm not so bothered about that, but the harmful stuff won't be widely available to children.

Whether or not a lot of parents are bothered about their children’s internet activities is insufficient reasoning to justify a proposal meaning internet censorship should be a priority for any Government which claims to be a democratic society.

There’s no doubt that what you’re suggesting is possible, and what’s equally possible is countermeasures to prevent those attempts at censorship from being in any way, shape or form as effective as you might hope. It wouldn’t even give children an education in security systems as it would be no more difficult for them to get their hands on the tools used to bypass any security or censorship measures than it is to download a mod for their favourite online games.

Your idea of internet kiosks in pubs or public places more generally reminded me of an attempt that was made to introduce public internet kiosks about two decades ago before the proliferation of widely available high-speed internet access on mobile devices. God only knows what they were thinking at the time 🙄

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/internet-kiosks-to-hit-irish-streets-1.235973

maccored

regulate the internet against people's own stupidity and gullibility?

Boards and Reddit etc are already regulated by mods . When a controversial event happens, all threads will be slowed down to a grinding halt or shutdown entirely with a comment like this issue is before the courts.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868347#Comment_121868347

Flashback time. :) I remember those and some of the people involved.

Regards...jmcc

riffmongous

There's a lot of passive aggression in the replies here..

dickdasr1234

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864519#Comment_121864519

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864519#Comment_121864519

Hehe, yeah, maybe you should read the T&Cs!

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868168#Comment_121868168

Great, you'll answer the question I asked that other poster so.

The parents of children who committed suicide having been harmed on Instagram, or that were exploited there, to whom that horrible man Zuckerberg apologised recently. Did they not do their job properly?

Feel free to answer too @One eyed Jack

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868050#Comment_121868050

So are you suggesting that its best if families don't eat out. Either way, you can't have both options: kids in a pub which has the internet on.

Again showing your idea to be what it is: stupidly daft because the intention here is to troll people

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868933#Comment_121868933

I tell you what, rather than big tech promising, and failing, to keep children safe as it has for twenty years, we'll ensure that happens instead.

Big tech can then 'innovate' and find ways to bring an open internet solely to adults. I think licensed premises is a good compromise, it wouldn't necessarily have to be pubs, or all pubs at all times.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868927#Comment_121868927

I see the tactic here, bring up an awful situation and no matter what way the person answers you can get outraged. I think one of the other posters hit the nail on the head

Instagram did not harm anyone, Instragram is just a programs. 1+0's. Go back 30 years when Instagram didn't exist children still killed themselves because of bullying. I remember two poor young people in our school drowned themselves in a lake. No instagram. They had been bullied.

Who do you want to cancel for that?

"horrible man Zuckerberg"? no need for the faux outrage. just makes these posts look stupid

The horrible people are the ones hiding on the internet bullying these people, if it wasn't the internet they would be doing it somewhere else because they are sick sick people.

jmcc

So, the whitelist idea has been dropped in favour of an emotional argument?

Regards...jmcc

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868376#Comment_121868376

And? They're organisations that have the right to moderate content. What you're proposing is wiping out 99% of the Internet to be more in line with China.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867901#Comment_121867901

And there proposal is to whitelist a hundred thousand websites? Can you cite any credible group around sexual violence etc lobbying for this? I'd also query why any parents are allowing 9 or 10 year olds on social media sites.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868927#Comment_121868927

Feel free to answer what exactly? I never said anything about parents not doing their jobs properly, that was the basis of your original argument. Apparently, according to you, “there’s only so much parents can do, and let’s face it, a lot of parents won’t bother”.

Well if they don’t imagine their children are at risk of suicide, it stands to reason that those same parents aren’t going to be too bothered that their children are targeting other children online and offline for abuse and harassment.

You’re attempting to hold service providers responsible for people who use their services as they are not intended, and expecting that people who use the services as they are intended should want to forego the freedom to use those services because other people can’t behave themselves?

Service providers are no more keen to supplant the place of parents than Government are keen to do so, no more than the parents of children who abuse and harass other children in a variety of cruel and unusual ways, are keen to rein in their little shìts.

I don’t hold the parents of children who died by suicide responsible for the actions of other people, and neither should you. Nor should you expect that technology or political influence will ever provide the solution to the problems you’re suggesting they are responsible for. They only exposed the problem, which is how you’re able to read about the extent of it, on the internet, and cite an article from a foreign media outlet about the proliferation of pornograply available on the internet and children’s ease of access to it. 30 years later and they’re still claiming “it just popped up!”

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869017#Comment_121869017

The whitelisting is still my suggestion, it seems to have held up well to the criticisms here.

Technically I think it looks like a strong contender. But of course I'm open to alternatives on how we deal with this.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869138#Comment_121869138

I suggest you read the thread, rightly you have been told that is ridiculous

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869071#Comment_121869071

This from the UKs children's commissioner:

"We urgently need to do more to protect children from the harms of online pornography. It should not be the case that young children are stumbling across violent and misogynistic pornography on social media sites. I truly believe we will look back in 20 years and be horrified by the content to which children were being exposed.”

I'm offering one suggestion, but we need to get away from this myth that the internet can't be controlled.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869138#Comment_121869138

It hasn't, you've just ignored all criticisms. it would basically be crippling a highly complex network. It would endanger everything from whistle blowing to basic file storage to support resources for victims of violence, abuse etc. Cause such a system inevitably ends up blocking completely legitimate resources. Then you've got the groups that use it to block groups they simply don't like existing. On top of that, it would end up severely damaging technological innovation.

It sounds like something out of the handmaid's tale. In relation to blocking porn, you should probably get USB sticks banned too. You could easily store a couple of weeks content on one these days...

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869165#Comment_121869165

He's not proposing whitelisting a hundred thousand websites... I can guarantee you that violence against women groups etc would equally view this as both incredibly dumb and dangerous.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869179#Comment_121869179

I'm quite hopeful something like this is coming down the line. A growing number of people want it (see the poll results, and that on an anonymous forum)

I think tech companies should have access to the full internet. As an adult you can keep as much porn on your usb stick as you like. Likewise content glamorizing suicide and eating disorders. Just don't share it with children, if that's not too much to ask?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869222#Comment_121869222

You really don’t see the irony in claiming there is support for your idea of closing off the majority of the internet to children, based upon the results of an anonymous internet poll?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869165#Comment_121869165

Internet can be controlled by parents and by installing software on devices to restrict access

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869222#Comment_121869222

And you don't think teens won't somehow get access to people who hard drives filled with porn? Defining "glamorizing" is pretty hard, wanna ban some books too? Cause it's the logical, Sylvia Plath is definitely a no no.

Thankfully I don't see this happening any time soon. You've claimed posters support your idea. Care to point to a single poster in thread who has said they think it's a good idea?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869277#Comment_121869277

It really can’t, and that’s equally a myth as the myth that MegamanBoo suggests we need to get away from. Parents can only control what’s within their ability to control. They can’t control other people, or other people’s children. They certainly can’t control the internet, nor can they control how, or when, or where their children will access the internet.

The internet isn’t the problem, the problem is people who imagine that they don’t have to respect other people, an attitude instilled in them from childhood by parents, peers, and the wider community as they grow into adulthood. The internet doesn’t cause that attitude to fester in an individual, they have to actively go seeking it out to reinforce their beliefs - access to the internet just means it’s that much easier for them to do so.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869286#Comment_121869286

There's been other posters calling for restrictions, tiered access, identifying logins, and even restrictions for adults.

I'm all for kids being thought about Sylvia Plath, ideally by teachers where it can be put in context and alongside the need to get help. Algorithms pushing that and more, repeatedly at kids being bullied is a different story.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869332#Comment_121869332

You can control the devices you give your children, of course you can't control you children going to a friends house and their parents haven't locked it down

Same as us growing up and we could only rent out certain videos but a mate could rent out and hence why he was popular for getting the 18 videos

As parents you can be as responsible as possible and then hope it works out.

In terms of telling an ISP to lockdown certain website, no thanks, we are not a nanny state. If people can't manage their children or look after them then they shoudn't have children in the first place.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868960#Comment_121868960

Zuckerberg ignored findings from within his own company that their algorithms were causing harm to children.

If anything calling him a 'horrible man' is being overly polite.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869410#Comment_121869410

That's very different to people backing your whitelisting idea. It's pretty clear that very few if any thinks your shower is a good idea.

You didn't answer my question, do you think it's okay to prevent access to poetry or books as well? I read a lot as a teen, should I only have accessed it via a teacher if suicide factored in as a plot? How about banning LGBT resources? Cause such books and websites are frequently attacked cause certain people deem them unsuitable.

Your proposal is a slippery slope. I have no issue with companies facing more stringent measures for age verification etc. Needing to go to an Internet cafe to access certain websites on the other hand is an incredibly stupid idea.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869410#Comment_121869410

Do you understand how algorithms work? example I google something I would like to buy like a laptop, then on boards on right hand side it has GreenIT advertising second hand laptops.

That has nothing to do with bullying.

Plus bullying existed long before the internet, the internet is just a tool they use to bully, if the internet was turned off tomorrow they would use something else.