Sky converting SD channels to DVB-S2 - will no longer be viewable on certain older receivers

techdiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990305#Comment_121990305

Poor Scarlet. 😂

At the same time 1080p bluray (even 1080p streaming) looks very good on my TV. Sky HD is pure garbage in comparison. The bitrate on their channels maxes out at 10mbps (often 6 or 7 average). For AVC that's crap. For certain sports like golf (us feed recompressed again) is often worse as the artifacting and noise is so high. That's not to mention that they still charge a premium for something (HD) that should be a bare minimum in 2024.

mackersdublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990057#Comment_121990057

Sky only in February launched a brand new channel, Sky Sports Tennis (and in SD & HD here in Ireland). A new shopping channel launched in SD only on 661 last week

They have never said SD channels are closing, as @icdg said, just SD boxes won't work. There will stil be an additional HD charge

What about all the +1 channels and the vast majority of the channels in the 700's. None of them are gonna launch in HD

Sky Stream have SD only channels too https://rxtvinfo.com/sky-stream-and-sky-glass-channel-list-republic-of-ireland-epg/

mackersdublin

Also, while other TPs will change from DVB-S to DVB-S2 in the coming months, two changed recently, making those SD channels not viewable on Sky SD boxes

TP 67 https://en.kingofsat.net/tp.php?tp=9589

TP 93 https://en.kingofsat.net/tp.php?tp=762

TAFKAlawhec

The main premise for Sky in moving SD services & converting transponders into broadcasting with DVB-S2 modulation instead of DVB-S is quite simply to allow Sky to squeeze more services into an available transponder and thus cut down on the transponder rental fees from SES. They've already done this for their German/Austrian operations.

As an example, a DVB-S transponder using QPSK modulation, a symbol rate of 22000 with an FEC of 5/6 gives a net bitrate of ~33.79 Mbit/s. A DVB-S2 transponder using 8PSK modulation, a symbol rate of 23000 with an FEC of 2/3 (the combination of which needs almost the same signal strength above the local noise floor as the first example, about 0.1db difference) gives ~44.39 Mbit/s, or about 1/3 of an increase in data capacity. On that alone they could fit the services of four DVB-S transponders into three DVB-S2 transponders without a notable bitrate sacrifice for affected services.

What is strange at the moment is that there has been two DVB-S > DVB-S2 transponder switches (as noted above by @mackersdublin ) concerning some free-to-air channels but where all services remain using MPEG2 video encoding instead of upgrading to MPEG4 AVC video encoding - using the latter would increase compression efficiency further and allow even more services to be squeezed into a transponder, but there appears to be no sign of this happening. Maybe we'll see it when August comes, but there must be some other technical reason for Sky not adopting MPEG4 AVC video for SD services on the platform? Sky HD+ receivers I've mucked around with over the years are certainly capable of displaying MPEG4 AVC SD video, so I'm gonna guess it might be something at Sky's end?

As for anything else beyond simply converting transponders to DVB-S2 operation, it would certainly make sense in eliminating SD duplicates where the HD version of the channel comes as a standard part of a Sky subscription (e.g. the elimination yesterday of TG4 on SD), but everything else is just guesswork or wishful thinking at this moment.

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997750#Comment_121997750

Sky have always been enormously conservative when it came to changes on the satellite problem in terms of broadcast parameters.

It wouldn't surprise me if we see a migration to DVB-S2 first followed by a second migration to MPEG-4 encoding on non-HD channels after August. At this stage the vast majority of their encoders would be capable of both MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 encoding so it's just a technical reconfiguration.

Then again it is possible there is some technical limitation baked into how the NIT and/or EPG data is broadcast that would instantly break the SD boxes if a combination of MPEG-4, an SD channel and DVB-S2 was introduced. The Sky+HD boxes still utilise the same EPG structure as non-HD do so it has to remain backwards compatible with a near 30 year old platform until the SD boxes are officially discontinued.

galtee boy

The SD closures continue, Virgin Media 1 & 2 standard definition closed on Sky today.

irishgeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022521#Comment_122022521

It would be no loss if the picture quality is the same as the **** quality they serve up on soarview.

Mickey Mike

VM3 will have to go HD at some point.

EdmondShiels3

Was Virgin Media not part of the HD sub on sky?

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025003#Comment_122025003

It's not available on Sky via satellite at all.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025008#Comment_122025008

yes it is - I have all the VM channels on Sky Q.

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025117#Comment_122025117

Virgin Media 3 HD is not available on Sky via satellite.

Glaceon

When VM took over UTV Ireland, they pulled the HD service from Sky, leaving the renamed VM3 in SD only.

mackersdublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025200#Comment_122025200

VM used UTV Ireland HD's capacity on Sky to launch 3e/Virgin Media Two HD AFAIK, back in 2016

galtee boy

SD shut down continues, RTE 2 sd closing on Monday 22nd April.

galtee boy

RTE 1 SD closing on April 29th, so that's all Irish channels available in HD only on Sky, except Virgin 3 and RTE News which haven't had HD variants available on Sky since they were made available on Sky.

Mickey Mike

That transponder (DVBs) they are on will close too some time in the summer, that's why all this is happening, some how I feel when they move fully to DVBs2, RTE may well drop the+1 channels.

mackersdublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993477#Comment_121993477

Another TP changed from DVB-S to DVB-S2 yesterday - https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/comment/104539524#Comment_104539524

TP 95 https://en.kingofsat.net/tp.php?tp=733

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071459#Comment_122071459

Received signal strength on this is a fraction of what it used to be for me now. Very odd.

No other S2 transponders are lower than normal

Mickey Mike

I have no signal at all at all on my old sky box, this is all I'm getting, remote control won't key in numbers. Did Sky make more changes recently?

Mickey Mike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122153198#Comment_122153198

Can the LNB fail? after all its been there since 2005, I tried adjusting it, all I have are the four RTE Radio channels.

andy1249

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164532#Comment_122164532

Yes , LNBs can indeed fail , however that box is ancient and obsolete at this stage , and regardless of what happens you are going to need a new one and soon.

Once all the channels are moved from DVB-S to DVB-S2 that box will be useless.

Single tuner DVB-S2 and DVB-T combo boxes can be had for as little as 60 quid.

https://www.freetv.ie/satellite/receivers/combo/

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997750#Comment_121997750

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998532#Comment_121998532

Sky are now testing a DVB-S2 transponder with MPEG-4 SD channels on 12.090GHz/V.

mackersdublin

From next Wednesday, 29th May, Sky have confirmed they are closing down the remaining 4 Sky Cinema SD channels in the 800's. And removing the Sky Sports SD channels (UK only), along with MUTV SD

https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/What-s-On/Changes-to-the-Sky-TV-Guide-May-2024/td-p/4628421

dublinman1990

I've read from Digital Spy Forums recently that VM Customers in the UK now have Sky Arts & Sky News in HD only.

It is only a matter of time now if Sky will eventually lift their encryption for these two channels on Sky Satellite in the UK & possibly for FTA/Freesat viewers in Ireland as well. When that will happen is now anyone's guess IMO.

However; there are 2 new DVB-S2 versions of Sky News & Challenge TV with Irish adverts testing in SD on Sky since last week.

The tuning parameters for both channels in DVB-S2 are available as follows.

12089 V 29500

Sky News Ireland SID 6406

Challenge TV Ireland SID 6203

dublinman1990

Sky have confirmed that all of their channels on their older Sky SD boxes will be removed the 31st of August 2024. Sky have also notified their customers that will still be charged full price for watching their remaining channels in the UK & Ireland if they still have a Sky SD box in their home.

However; Freesat have not confirmed a date when all of the SD channels will be switched off on their older SD boxes yet.

https://rxtvinfo.com/2024/sky-confirms-sd-box-end-date-while-older-freesat-receivers-lose-more-channels/

Warner Brothers Discovery is also preparing to upgrade their FTA satellite channels like Quest, Quest Red & DMAX to DVB-S2 in the UK & Ireland. I don't know when it will happen; but it might happen very soon.

mackersdublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122328491#Comment_122328491

Official link regarding 31st August

https://www.sky.com/help/articles/sky-channel-upgrade-roi

And 2 more TPs moved to DVB-S2 today:

TP 35 https://en.kingofsat.net/tp.php?tp=368 29500 2/3 DVB-S2 8PSK

TP 62 https://en.kingofsat.net/tp.php?tp=11701 23000 2/3 DVB-S2 8PSK

decor58

Fransat have announced the launch of 4 receivers supporting UHD broadcasts, In time for the Olympics. Roland Garris tennis tournament is currently being broadcast in UHD and with the Olympics also due, it raises two issues, how much UHD programming will be broadcast in the future and highlights the move from sd. It also shows a degree of commitment to satellite broadcasting, for how long.

dublinman1990

The Fransat UHD boxes on sale are the Servimat Sirius 4K, CGV E-SAT, Metronic 441680 and Triax THR 7640.

They all have support for Dolby Atmos & Dolby Digital+ AC4 & AC3 for audio spatial rendering in the new hardware.

https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2024/07/05/fransat-launches-new-4k-decoder-range/

There's not much more detail in that article though. If the French Satellite TV market can buy into these new boxes in shops.

It might give more opportunities for other countries to consider doing this for their Satellite TV service especially with Freely in the UK.

icdg

I’m not clear as to what that news has to do with Sky converting channels to DVB-S2?