Consumer Unit Query

Dr.Tom

Folks,

Our property is a work in progress renovation. Attached should be two pics of our current consumer unit. There is no electric shower in the house at present and we want to add one in the very near future, a pumped electric non heating shower. I have been told I can add (well a qualified electrician can) a "sub board" containing RCBO to allow cable be ran for shower fitment.

Is this still the done thing? Id like to upgrade the consumer unit but from research I believe all existing wiring will have to be certified safe/made safe before new consumer unit can be installed and signed of

f

2011

The application of new wiring regulations cannot be retroactive. Nevertheless, existing wiring can be utilized again once it passes the required tests (such as insulation resistance). Given that the cabling shown is PVC/PCV, it is probable that it can be reused. Despite the apparent age of the distribution board, its installation seems professional and well-executed.

If this were my property, I would opt to install an RCBO for each circuit, install surge protection, and upgrade the tails to a minimum of 16 mm sq. It is likely that the earthing system is lacking, thus warranting attention.

While a complete rewiring would be ideal, if cost is a constraint, the above improvements would significantly enhance safety and functionality.

Dr.Tom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964377#Comment_121964377

This is a great reply. Thank you. Take note trolls.

I have electrical knowledge through my trade (maintenance fitter) but I'm not an electrician. My ESB friend also commented that it was a good installation for the time and even what's visible in the attic is good by his standards for the age.

I am guessing your recommended upgrades would warrant removal of the existing unit and installation of a new one.

This will be our "forever home" as they say and whilst finances are an issue as always I do want to achieve as much as I can without a rewire if that makes sense.

meercat

As 2011 says

that incoming main cable looks like 10mm so it’s not permitted to add additional loads (instant shower /car charger etc)

I’d expect the earthing needs to be upgraded too including earth rod

A notice of potential hazard should be issued for that distribution board

undersized mains

No rcd sockets/immersion

Inadequate earthing

As you say it’s unlikely to pass the certification and verification process if you upgrade the distribution board. this installation is possibly +40 years old and a rewire should be your first priority if it’s your forever home

a pumped shower can be added as this is not an additional load once it’s properly protected. The rec is obligated to test and issue a cert 3 for this and also issue a notice of potential hazard for existing issues.

2011

I recommend ensuring the electrician installs an enclosure with a surplus capacity of at least 25%.

Dr.Tom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964987#Comment_121964987

The "potential hazard" comment is very re-assuring. Lets hope my wife isn't a member here.

drury..

Get a few RECs out ,if you can get them ,for their opinion and pricing

Dr.Tom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965081#Comment_121965081

Not a ghost of a chance is an electrician taking on a bunglaow rewire.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965222#Comment_121965222

Bungalow is easiest usually

See how u go with quotes

Nothing inherently wrong with older PVC cables if they pass

Dr.Tom

Two electricians contacted. Based on photos of consumer unit alone they automatically suggest a full re-wire.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965459#Comment_121965459

That's par for course here

It may be the best option overall if funds allow , as previously said above

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965060#Comment_121965060

It’s a requirement that any rec working on the distribution board also tests the rcd

As you haven’t one installed he has to issue a nph for that along with any other problems they spot

I would agree with the 2 other electricians that recommend a rewire from the photos you posted

Dr.Tom

I have a guy calling to look anyway which is a good start. He's of the non-cowboy variety so I'll trust his opinions and experience.

From what I gather this test will inform me of where I do or do not comply in relation to current standards in order to allow upgrade to 16 square cable (if possible).

As mentioned by Drury "Nothing inherently wrong with older PVC cables if they pass".

The guy calling has seen plenty safely passed and some,most recently a house local to mine,fail.

Exciting times ahead.

meercat

1 are they old twin cables with a separate earth

2 is that a changeover switch beside your distribution board

3 are there any 10mm earth cables

4 can you post a photo of your meter and associated cables

5 can you see your earth rod

6 are all the hot press pipes earthed

7are all your metal switches and light fixtures earthed

9 what reading did he get for earth loop

10 what reading did he get for insulation resistance
11 what reading did he get for resistance of protective conductors

12 are the sockets mounted on the skirting

13 are the switches and sockets screwed to timber

14 how old is the installation

these are just some of the questions you’ll need answers to to make an informative decision

Dr.Tom

I hope all the questions you're asking me will be answered by the REC I'm paying to do the test. The answers will then allow him make informed recommendations to me. ie. my guesswork as a non-electrician will be ruled out.

Or am I completely wrong?

Either way thanks for the check list. I already know the answer to some, I can get answers for more and some will need a professional to answer.

Dr.Tom

Turns out I have 16 square already

IMG-20240401-WA0009.jpeg

drury..

They could be 10s, hard to tell from pic

Dr.Tom

I measured the OD of them with a calipers and it matches my parents house. Their cable which is the same as mine visibly says 16. Of course I can't see that on mine.

I'm guessing you have an electrical qualification. What is the OD of 16 square tails for reference?

drury..

Ya could be .

No idea on diameters without me going and checking

The installer will presumably be using16s , they look similar

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978312#Comment_121978312

O.D will differ from manufacturers insulation

You’ll need the c.s.a of the conductors

Imho the red and black cables feeding your distribution board in your original post look only 10mm

what did the rec that visited say

drury..

Missed that

Red and black will surely be 10

drury..

Red black they're 10s

Dr.Tom

He's not calling until late next week.

Do you have an OD measurement for 16 square?

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121980927#Comment_121980927

no

Singles haven’t been used for a long time now

It’s all twin and earth now

meercat

O.P

Do you have a generator

That changeover switch appears to be wired incorrectly and could lead to a dangerous situation and possible electrocution

Both poles should be switched (live and neutral )

Dr.Tom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981442#Comment_121981442

It's wired for a generator but I know it was never hooked up to one. Thanks for the heads up. Never paid attention to the generator wiring as I plan on removing it anyway

Dr.Tom

Back again.

After meeting the electrician we are settling on going for a rewire.

From a consumer point of view and in a bid to "futureproof" is there anything I should request extra as the work is being done.

Dr.Tom

Just to follow up on this again as a matter of courtesy in case anyone else finds themselves in a similar situation.

Full rewire complete to current standards. All light switch points lowered to standard and new conduit fitted for new standard cables. An absolute nightmare mess after chasing but its piece of mind.

Got wiring and external isolator installed should we eventually buy an electric car and also got provisions ran outside for electric gates, external lighting, intercom etc. Wired also for CCTV and external lights are wired for PIR operation.

The one thing that really stood out to me regarding new regulations is the isolation switches required for appliances that are plugged in but cannot be seen, namely the dishwasher, under counter freezer/fridge and microwave.

When did this become standard?

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300616#Comment_122300616

Just curious on the isolation switches for appliances - actually think its a decent idea given how they can be a pain to get at - where is it recommended to fit the switches? Kitchen above the counter or something? I guess they would look quite bulky..

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300616#Comment_122300616

Soon after the housing crash. A friend bought a newly built house off the bank, when they were at their cheapest. He had to add the under counter switches to get the ESB to reconnect the electricity.

This is it

I'm not in the electrical game any more, but it was starting to come in around 15/16/17 years ago if I remember right.