UPS invoicing me but I am not a customer

j_lennon18

TL;DR: Someone sent me a surprise gift from the US; I knew nothing about the shipment/tracking and UPS never tried to deliver or contact me about it (WFH, have CCTV & nothing on the phone logs). Instead, UPS return the package to the US and are trying to charging me for that pleasure but I had no contact with UPS throughout any of it till the invoices arrived in the mail (by the reliable An Post).

Here is rundown of what happened over the last 2.5 months:

• A package/gift was sent to me without my knowledge from the US in January.
• UPS never attempted to call/deliver the package or ask for any customs/import duty but decided to return it back to the US on their own accord.
  • Luckily, I have CCTV and phone logs to back up no contact.
• Late February and early March, I received 2 invoices (80e & 40e) from UPS. They created 2 accounts with my information without my consent. The 80e one looks like its for customs/duty which is a strange one since it went back to the US. The 40e one looks like the cost of sending it back.
• I dispute it but they are adamant I have to pay and say I am the shipper of the item back to the US. UPS did that without contacting me.
• In March, I received a debt collector letter from ControlAccount.com. So UPS shared my personal information without my consent to another company. GDPR violation?
• I call UPS again to dispute it and call ControlAccount.com to make sure they know I am disputing it.
• I called CCPC.ie for advice this morning and ironically they say they can't help as I am not a customer of UPS since no agreement was made between myself and UPS 😅
• I sent a separate complaint to UPS today about the GDPR issue as I plan to follow-up with DataProtection.ie. I had 0 contact with UPS before they decided to create 2 accounts using my information and more importantly, they shared my personal details to another company without my consent. I never agreed to any terms with UPS.

I can easily pay the fees but it's the principle of the matter and I want UPS to be held accountable for this bullying behavior to prevent others from experience this (or end up with bad credit rating). It feels like getting mugged.

Since I'm technically not a UPS customer, the "Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980" doesn't seem to apply to me:

"A person who receives goods as a gift is not considered to be a 'consumer' within the meaning of the Act and neither is someone who intends to use the goods in the course of a business. A consumer contract exists only between the buyer (the consumer) and the seller (usually a retailer)."

I never entered into any agreement/contact with UPS. Here is the last reply/lies I got from UPS yesterday after 20 days waiting for it:

"As per our investigation on the shipment number {removed} the shipment was shipped from IE to US. And as you have shipped the shipment as you are the shipper of the shipment."

I had to laugh at the last sentence in that message. I am currently waiting on 2 replies from UPS now:

1. Proof of method/datetime of them contacting me about the original delivery and proof I told them to return the item to the US. I know they have none as I have CCTV and phone logs so I can't wait to hear their lies or them say "the system says so right here".
2. The name of the person/department to start the official complaint about them sharing my personal data so I can use the correspondences with them when making my official complaint with dataprotection.ie.

The GDPR issue seems like the only option for me but is there anything else I can do? Could it be considered harassment or something else that I could go to the Garda since I am not a customer? I'm guessing not but I am open to any crazy ideas at this stage as I am pulling my hair out dealing with their support now 😟

TheShepard

Honestly, I think you're overthinking, don't pay it and go about your life and let it be. That's what I would do anyway.

Sounds a bit fishy to me, there's any amount of scams out there using emails and texts. If there is any breach of an account you have on any website, all of the above would be easy to manufacture.

j_lennon18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966334#Comment_121966334

It definitely not a scam. I found out about the gift been sent afterwards and everything lines up 100% with that. I am also dealing with their phone numbers and email from their official website: https://www.ups.com/ie/en/support/contact-us.page

1 concern is bad credit rating since they were quick to pass 1 of the invoices to debt collectors already (that's currently on hold).

The other concern is my personal information been sent to other companies without my consent.

Because of those 2 reasons, its not something I want to ignore and I am just looking for any other options that I haven't considered.

Vicxas

Can it go against your credit if you never entered into a credit/billing agreement with anyone?

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966388#Comment_121966388

As above forget about it, it won't affect your credit rating.

It doesn't add up though, who sent you this surprise gift? Why aren't UPS chasing them given they're the ones who have the contract with them?

Sounds like a scam to me too.

j_lennon18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966772#Comment_121966772

I appreciate people making people aware of scams like this but it's 100% not a scam in this case.

I know who sent it, it was a late Christmas gift (earphones). We just didn't imagine this to happen.

Well, unless you class UPS as the scammers in this case.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966829#Comment_121966829

Well, again, why aren't they invoicing your sender if you know who it is, it's not your problem.

Was the product returned to your sender?

It still sounds like nonsense, that they'd send it back to the US and only ask you to pay for the shipping afterwards. Are you on a wind up?

j_lennon18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966631#Comment_121966631

Im curious about that too. UPS are adamant its a charge I have to pay and were quick to send to debt collectors already. I've never been in this situation so not really sure what will happen.

Citizen Six

Can you post some redacted invoices? Just sounds like trolling to me. I've ignored genuine UPS invoices and they didn't even go to a debt collector.

dickdasr1234

Sounds like something Conor Pope would love to get his teeth into!

j_lennon18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966864#Comment_121966864

UPS said I refused delivery and they had to return it and I liable for that cost. But I didn't refuse anything. I am not winding people up and its not a scam. Starting to feel like talking to UPS on here now with nobody believing me :)

I got the tracking info too late (when it was already sent back by UPS) so I can finally see it all and checked my CCTV. The situation is just crazy with UPS incompetent and bullying people into paying for something they never agreed.

Guessing I'll just ignore, try not to worry and tell them I won't be paying. I'll keep the cctv and phone logs backed up.

Thanks everyone for their input.

j_lennon18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966929#Comment_121966929

I'll think about it and decide tomorrow (putting kids to bed now). Just seems like all people thinking I'm either winding up and or its a scam.

I'm a very long time lurker on boards and have never messed about on here so feeling a bit deflated now after trying to get some genuine help.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966952#Comment_121966952

So i've asked you twice why UPS aren't dealing with your sender and you've ignored the question both times. UPS are now incompetent and bullying, forgive me for thinking this is not a genuine complaint.

Kaisr Sose

Surely no implied contract exists between you and UPS? If it does, it would be a bizarre situation where someone could randomly send you goods and on refusal, you as addressee, would immediately become liable to the delivery company for all costs incurred by them in returning these to the sender. It just makes no sense they can seek to enforce these costs.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967079#Comment_121967079

Exactly, makes no sense at all, but we're all supposed to feel guilty now for asking legitimate questions and making the OP feel bad.

Charles Babbage

Send a request under the Data Protection legislation for a copy of all data they hold about you. Then tell them to delete it and report them to the Data Protection commissioner if they act the maggot.

dickdasr1234

It's frustrating to see the OP being called a liar and a troll.

OP, perhaps you could show screenshots/photos of UPS communications in order to shove it up the naysayers jumpers?

j_lennon18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967021#Comment_121967021

I told you already that UPS said I refused delivery and have me liable for the return cost. I don't work for them so can't say why they won't charge the sender.

We also have the issue that they never tried to deliver it or contact me about it and they also shared my data.

If you can't offer any help then I won't be replying to you again as this is a genuine post and genuine ask for advice but you just seem to want to prove its a scam or wind up. I don't want to get into a fight with anyone and I'm tired of trying to prove something to you at this point.

If anyone wants to add advice then thanks in advance, I'll read and click thanks but at this point I think I think I'll skip replying in here.

elperello

OP

You have no parcel.

UPS have no case.

That's it in a nutshell.

mykrodot

God I feel sorry for the OP here. Some very aggressive questions from angry posters! Its the OP who is stressed by this and who is affected. Why the aggression from posters ? I have had a few very bad experiences with stuff coming from Canada and the US.

It is standard practice that they will send items back to sender if delivery is refused. BUT they need to be refused, not simply undelivered or nobody home.

If it was me I would keep a log of each and every time I have contacted UPS. OP has done nothing wrong here. I would brazen it out and eventually UPS will get tired of the chase. But I would go to court over this if I had to…. on principle!

bennyx_o

Don't worry about it showing on your credit check - it won't. Only credit agreements above €500 get reported.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967141#Comment_121967141

I don't agree with the ' being asked to feel guilty'. I have no reason to feel that way, nor do I have a reason to suspect the OP is trolling or a liar.

I used to receive invoices at work from FedEx for customs clearance where there was no fee due to them (we had a customs agent). It took a lot of time and emails to have these invoices cancelled.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967181#Comment_121967181

I have advised you, i said forget about it as you don't have a contract with them and it won't affect your credit rating.

Why won't you answer my questions? Did your sender receive the item back? Why are you talking about receiving tracking info? The sender gets that, not you. If you know the sender why aren't they in contact with UPS to resolve the issue?

It doesn't make any sense.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967198#Comment_121967198

What on Earth is aggressive about questions? There is no way a recipient of unsolicited mail can be charged for it's return whether refused, undeliverable, or subject to customs charges that they won't pay.

It's all completely on the sender, but the OP seems to have no interest in directing the issue to them.

whomitconcerns

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967181#Comment_121967181

How do they have your contact details anyway? Move on, forget about it.

mykrodot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967413#Comment_121967413

Exactly, there is no way the recipient can be charged for this item, even if UPS decided to return it. However that doesn't eliminate the stress and anxiety of getting these kind of emails and letters from collection agencies! I know its not the OP's issue to sort but you have no idea of the back story. Perhaps the sender in the US is a very old relative, or someone who sent this present out of kindness. I would be mortified asking any relative to pay for the return delivery of something that they sent as a present! Think about it.

Personally reading your posts they come across as aggressive….. "why won't you answer my questions" is actually very demanding. Even your message to me asking "what on earth is aggressive about questions?" You asked at 7.19 pm for more information and if the OP was "on a wind up". Despite the OP replying they were putting the kids to bed being asked again at 7.56pm "why aren't you answering my questions"? The OP is simply looking for advice. He/she is not blaming anyone, he/she said in numerous posts that they were genuine and not trolling , he/she said they were putting the kids to bed.

That is why I said you were being aggressive. Maybe give people the benefit of the doubt or a chance to explain. I don't think posters should have to defend themselves against being called trolls or on a wind up.

carbuncle

j- Lennon

Pm me I will give you the ups resolution email address as I don’t have it to hand. I got a similar issue sorted with a few emails, no point in calling anybody in ups as I discovered. I had a similar issue albeit on a business to business basis when a Uk supplier of ours sent items to us using their own ups account - we don’t have one.

1. I get a call from a non irish call centre claiming to be from ups asking for credit card payment for €430 euro. Asked what for, told me local taxes. Could not tell me who the shipment was from or any other details. I said email me the invoice ( gave address) but none arrived. Of course I would not give some randomer my cc details.
2. 2 weeks later supplier said package arrived back with them, I had it collected using our dhl account and realised that was probably what the call was. Supplier said ups said we refused to pay local taxes - which was never said, I asked for a copy of the invoice. I have had mistakes with duty so would not pay before seeing an invoice.
3. Nothing received from ups via email or post but after 2 months we got an email from control account with a ‘final demand’ for payment before action was taken. I asked this Uk company for a copy of the bill and why this was a final demand when no previous demand was made - got the bill but no explanation of the final demand!
4. the bill had information on it that I could not get from ups via phone, the people I spoke to could not help before I got this bill.
5. bill was for vat and duty on the value of the goods - not payable as no vat and duty would be paid on a delivery not made. I point ed this out to control account and said they would look quite foolish taking me to court for amounts that would never had been paid. I think they gave me the ups resolution email.
6, emailed ups resolution explaining the above. Pointed out they had only ever called once to demand payment with no proper explanation of what for, asked for an invoice that was never sent and they had passed on information to a debt collector who were now demanding money for vat and duty that they would never have paid and if they did were entitled to claim back as the goods were never delivered. I also pointed out payment was never refused - their staff decided to return to sender off their own bat. I said if they had any proof of any communication other than the initial call to demand money we could have a chat.
7. 2 days later I got an email to say the bill was cancelled and forget it.

Not quite the same as the op’s situation but in my experience ups are useless and calling them is a waste of time. In our case as a business I could have paid controlaccount the vat and reclaimed it but not the duty - less hassle but I was not having it.

dhl all the way, they have excellent systems for dealing with vat/ duty for non eu imports. Had one issue since brexit and a call to a local number had it sorted and credit issued within a couple of hours.

And remember a Uk import to Ireland is treated the same as a USA import to Ireland now as far as vat and duty is concerned.

Op has 2 invoices, one is for return of goods so that is slightly different but the vat/duty is not owed. I take it our supplier may have been charged for the return but they never mentioned it to me.

I would suggest op emails details to ups resolutions but also points out to controlaccount that as goods were returned no vat or duty was due in Ireland or should have been paid so that invoice is invalid.

We always use dhl to organise collections from that particular supplier now and advise any new supplier we won’t accept any shipments from them if they intend to use ups.

carbuncle

I posted our issue a few minutes ago and found the ups address I dealt with, iefcr@ups.com.

this is described as ‘Uk, ie and nordics resolutions’ so probably no good to the op.

Ask controlaccount for the correct ups resolutions address for the USA import when pointing out the vat and duty invoice is not payable, don’t waste your time with the whole story - control account won’t care!

good luck.

JVince

Why do people who have no clue about gdpr go in and on and on about it and then make a fool of themselves complaining about it.

Op, you need to understand what you are talking about before complaining about it

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967494#Comment_121967494

I have no idea of the backstory because the OP wouldn't answer any of the questions regarding the sender which i asked in no way aggressively.

It is not fair to come on here and blackguard a company with no evidence whatsoever and ignore questions about the validity of that blackguarding.

As for putting the kids to bed, if someone can post that they're putting the kids to bed then they're not putting the kids to bed, they're posting!

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967711#Comment_121967711

Jeez, passive aggressive at best. The OP has received good advice from others, so relax you don't need your questions answered.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967746#Comment_121967746

You have zero entitlement to describe me or tell me to do anything.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967746#Comment_121967746

The OP has received utter crap from others.

The OP themselves are being very foolish in their "GDPR" accusatiuon. Terribly obvious they have no clue about gdpr and their email was probably deleted.

They then say they want to go to the gardai about "harassment" - that's even more ridiculous that the gdpr issue.

The CCPC rightfully told the OP to feck off.

I suggest before the op wastes any more time they should reads the very simple terms and conditions of UPS that the SENDER signed and agreed to.

Check the contact details the SENDER provided incl email and phone number.

Ask the SENDER why they ticked the box that the recipient would accept liability for taxes & duties.

And then also ask the SENDER why they didn't just send a little note to say there's a little gift on the way.

Guess where the fault actually lies? - The SENDER. So, best advice on the thread is to ask the SENDER these questions

tphase

couple of things I've learned from dealing with couriers over the years -

1) the reasons for non-delivery are usually bullsh1t. The driver has to tick a box and none of them cover the situation where there aren't enough hours in the day to deliver all the packages in the van or where the driver just can't be arsed. Normally it'll just be "premises closed" or "no one home to accept package"

2) disputing charges with them is a royal pain in the hoop and typically the first few interactions are with a bot. It's a slow process but as long as you have the paperwork to prove your case, you just keep at them.

In this case, I'd first contact the sender to get copies of the shipping documents (waybill and invoice) which presumably will confirm the item was identified as a gift and valued under €45 - in that case, UPS are absolutely at fault and the documentation should be sufficient to prove that

Secondly, request copies of the shipping docs and the attempted delivery record from UPS. This should confirm it's the same shipment, pinpoint the date and time of the attempted delivery and proof of refused delivery (ie your signature).

I would keep all communications in writing. Phone calls can be quicker but you either have to record each call or send a follow up email to confirm the details of what was said/agreed. If you do call, write down the name of the person you're dealing with

Finally, forget the GDPR tack - it's a non-issue

mickdw

I had similar dealing with ups.

Bought an item online. Paid the owner for delivery and a month later I started getting bills for 90 quid.

If I remember right I sent them an email stating I never agreed to pay for any delivery. That was the end of it.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967592#Comment_121967592

Nevertheless, companies cannot hold data about you at random. A courier company can reasonably hold your address to deliver a parcel, but it is not reasonable to hold your address to harass you when you have no business relationship with them and there is no parcel.

j_lennon18

Thanks everyone that has tried to help, I have read them all 👍️

The situation is 100% genuine:

• UPS never tried to deliver or contact me about a package
• UPS are trying to charge me for duty on the item sent back (happened to another poster)
• UPS are charging me for the item been sent back
• UPS created accounts and shared my personal information with another company (maybe others) after I already told them I have no contact/contract/agreement/account with UPS.

I come here for help, spent a lot of time trying to explain 2.5 months worth of information in a succinct manner, I replied to everyone at the start till it became clear 2-3 people were on witch hunt thinking it was a scam or I'm on a wind-up or a troll or that me or the sender should be responsible for UPS not doing their job.

I am not sure how myself or the sender is at fault here. They posted something with my correct address (UPS have no problem sending me invoices to prove that) in good faith that UPS would actually try to deliver (thats their main job). The sender told me about 2 days after sending to expect a late Christmas gift and said they wanted to pay me any duty that I would have to pay so I thank them and go about my life waiting for a knock on the door and ready to pay any duty as I never miss a delivery since I work from home and have CCTV.

It never arrives and I feel something is up so I ask the sender if there was an issue. UPS says I refused the package on 3 consecutive days and the item was sent back to the sender. The sender is embarrassed and wants to send an Amazon gift card instead. We cut our loses and think that is the end but then I receive these invoices. UPS Ireland created these accounts and are invoicing me and will only deal with me, not the sender since on their system its all in my name now. Maybe because UPS (America) and UPS (Ireland) operate independently, I honest dont know why or how they operated but It has become my problem now. The sender actually wants me to just pay it all and they will give me the money as they are very embarrassed about the situation. I tell them I will let UPS know they made multiple mistakes since its all in my name now and wont deal with them and this is were I am at now.

Here is a snippet of the tracking were they lie multiple times that I "refused the delivery" for 3 days:

I didn't think everyone wanted to hear every little low level detail of the situation so I tried to give the important facts of the situation since it is messy. I tried different places like CCPC before coming here but some people are hung up on trying to prove something that is not. And then someone actually throwing the fact I contacted CCPC for help in my face when CCPC were actually agreeing with me that UPS and myself have no agreement and shouldn't be doing this and they also gave advice on looking into GDPR.

I am not an expert on GDPR and never said I was but I think its not unreasonable for someone to feel that their data is mishandled when a company that I had no contract/contact/agreement with is sharing my personal information with a debt collection company (and maybe others) after I already told them of their mistake and told them to delete my data from their system as I never opted into anything. If its not an issue then fine but no harm for me looking into it so at least I know more about GDPR. It was also a suggestion by the person on the CCPC helpline when they heard the story.

As strange as the situation is, it is not unthinkable that a company with 1.1 rating on Trustpilot (1,649 reviews) could make mistakes like this: https://ie.trustpilot.com/review/www.ups.ie

For posterity sake and to help future people I will update this thread with the outcome (might take weeks/months) but no point me adding more personal information here as from my perspective some of the posters behavior feels like they are the ones trolling and nothing I say will be good enough for them (I partly regret making this reply but wanted to for the helpful people).

Thanks again to the helpful posters. I have learnt my lesson posting here and I will be going back to my 20+ years of lurking on here till I have a useful update 👍️

bobbyD1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967142#Comment_121967142

You have only a limited right to demand removal of data. Only data no longer needed or incorrect. Accounting and customs requirements alone will override the request.

Op, ignore it and don't even acknowledge the debt collection agency. You have no contract with either. Return the envelope unopened and they will stop

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968441#Comment_121968441

You do get that OP isn't the sender yeah? And as such may not have access to the answers you so politely requested?

Nice job "helping" out though.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968847#Comment_121968847

it is no longer needed, it was needed for delivery of a parcel, there now is no parcel.

PommieBast

The one time I had trouble with UPS was a COD parcel that I had paid for and accepted. Took delivery at my office and it was not the only time around then UPS had delivered stuff there. Guessing the driver didn't log the cash I handed over. Crazy thing was them calling up what was I think about six months later by which point I had changed companies..

bobbyD1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968943#Comment_121968943

That's not how record keeping works. Every single company in the world keeps records of their transactions. Audits are conducted. They get into a lot of trouble for not keeping them.

Then you have legal obligation. For example,t here was also a customs declaration made, that's subject to a minimum 7 year retention.

You can't have honestly thought that ccompanies scrub their databases did you? Even boards keeps some personal data after you stopped being a user.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968973#Comment_121968973

The company can defend against your request for deletion of data by citing customs requirements and can archive data for this purpose. But they cannot use your data for anything else or make it available to other people.

I'd make them defend their position, you would then find that they'd tighten up, most of this is simply suiting themselves.

bobbyD1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969007#Comment_121969007

That's completely separate to what you said and my reply. You said the op should demand deletion and then challenged me on it. Don't move goalposts.

My stance on how the op should deal with the debt collection agencyt has been stated.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969135#Comment_121969135

I said that the OP should demand deletion, let the company provide any grounds on which it can justify retention.

No goalposts have been moved.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968851#Comment_121968851

Read the UPS terms and conditions - then get back to me.

Fault is entirely with the SENDER.

SENDER signed that they agreed to t&c's, SENDER seems to have given incorrect email/phone number (ups would have send a notification)

UPS carried out the contract they had with the SENDER. Nothing in what the op claims is of any fault of UPS (and I'm not a fan of UPS in any way shape or form).

So when you read the term and conditions the sender agreed to, come back with a comment. You'll realise the sender is who the op needs to direct their ire at.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968810#Comment_121968810

Read the terms and conditions the sender signed/agreed to. UPS have an absolute right to hold these details until resolution and a right to pass these details to a collection agency working on their behalf.

bobbyD1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969190#Comment_121969190

You said more. You said they no longer needed the data and it should be deleted. You also suggested reporting them if they did not comply. You then replied to myself that they only needed the data for delivery and now, no longer needed it. Both were incorrect

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969324#Comment_121969324

I fail to see how a third party can provide a useful agreement to hold someone's data without that person's knowledge or consent other than for the limited period required to deliver the package. I cannot commit you to a expense nor can you commit me, so debt collection does not enter into it. You can only collect a debt that someone enters into, not one that someone else in a foreign country enters into. These people need to reported for purporting to allow this.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969311#Comment_121969311

Read the thread and then get back to the rest of us.

The OP is not the SENDER and hence cannot answer any questions as to what the SENDER may or may not have done.

Right now you are "busy" directing your ire at the OP who is not the…wait for it… SENDER.

There is nothing the SENDER can sign, agree to or anything else that will make the OP liable for anything. UPS can have whatever terms and conditions they want, its irrelevant. Someone else cant create a contract on your behalf without your knowledge and agreement.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969586#Comment_121969586

as I said, read the terms and conditions the SENDER agreed to. Until then don't reply.