Plans to end direct rail services between Wexford and Dublin

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122250680#Comment_122250680

I very much doubt that the rule book allows for that.

That solution would only be allowable where the door is defective.

The railway works under very strict rules and that sort of “messing around” which is what it would be seen as would not I suspect fall into what would allowed.

The only workable solution is SDO.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122250964#Comment_122250964

I know, and to be fair, Irish Rail are great the auld H&S, it was more a discussion point of a workable solution. The CSO was opening it on the Wexford line even though the door was "out of service" to let bike users off. It won't happen but it is not impossible to do, but as you said, it won't happen.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249959#Comment_122249959

There's about 200m to the tunnel I thought (You'd need to cut into the earth a bit though). worst case scenario move the Station to the other side of the viaduct.

€€€€€€'s though…

Very strange where those commercial units are to the east of the station, old coal depot I take it?

goingnowhere

No platform south of Greystones apart from Rosslare Europort has a platform long enough for a 6 car ICR

Rathdrum is the hardest of the lot to deal with but should be reasonably possible, you can squeeze another 5m out on the Dublin end. On the Arklow end, you get into fairly serious realignment and demolition, the water tank would have to go. Need to find about 15m. The real challenge is the falling gradient which starts just at the platform end.

SDO doesn't help as the train would be likely be too long to fit in the passing loop, its would be extremely tight if it does

CramCycle

So Europort is 147m, Strand is 145m, Wexford is 145m, Enniscorthy 140m, Gorey is 145m, Arklow is 133m, Rathdrum is 130m, Wicklow is 132m, Kilcoole is 137m.

So a 6 carriage ICR is (very roughly) 141m. So the issues are Arklow, Rathdrum, Wicklow and Kilcoole. I think it is certainly possible.

Just giving ideas, clearly not a train buff. Also from an engineering perspective, could SDO be retrofitted?

blackbox

It's a single line from Bray to Wicklow.

What is the highest frequency of trains possible on this line in both directions? - assuming no shortage of drivers or rolling stock. There is a possible passing point in Greystones.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254902#Comment_122254902

At the minute, the DART from Greystones is every 30 minutes, so arrives in, turn over time and back out. They could easily run a regular Wexford line train that overtakes in Greystones, pulls into the side at Platform 3, which gives time to disembark, and move over to Platform 1 for further journeys. For those asking why not just swap at Greystones, it is more an accessibility thing, the up and over, while sometimes unavoidable should be avoided if possible. Also gives good onward journey options to elsewhere via the 155 and others

Glencarraig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968994#Comment_121968994

Was that census done during the school holidays, if not then its a joke.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270334#Comment_122270334

10th of November

Glencarraig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272045#Comment_122272045

So probably a school day. The Dublin - Wexford line is a hell of a lot busier when the schools are closed. Would have made more sense to do the census then.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273722#Comment_122273722

That makes zero sense! Public transport is always busier when schools are open!

School kids travelling on the service, college students commuting to college in Dublin, etc. Also during school holidays adults are also more likely to also be off on holidays abroad, etc.

The reduction in numbers travelling is so severe during holidays, that Dublin Bus has a completely different summer schedule with greatly reduced schedule versus November.

November is the perfect time to run such a survey!

Glencarraig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122274124#Comment_122274124

Have you been on a Wexford bound train on a hot sunny day in August?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275326#Comment_122275326

You can’t judge a line based on tourists using it on a handful of sunny weekend summer days!

You judge a line based on it carrying people to work, college, school, etc. 5 days a week most of the year.

If all you have is it carrying a bunch of tourists from time to time, that is a pretty sad reflection on the line and service.

The point of the rail census is not to record that maximum use of a service, but to find what it’s typical usage on a regular working/school day would look like and to be able to compare it across the network on the same day. What the usage looks like at other stations and lines on the same day.

As an aside, trains to Wexford being jammed on a Sunday like that doesn’t say much given the low frequency of the service. I’d suspect stations like Howth, Malahide, Bray etc. would be handling vastly more passengers on that same day.

In the end, on a typical working day, all day long, Wexford station handles just the equivalent of two double decker buses worth of passengers! That is not a successful service.

bk

I just checked, there are only 3 trains a day to Wexford on a Sunday in August, no wonder the odd train might be very busy with so little service!

end of the road

deleted

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278646#Comment_122278646

The 2022 rail census was 5 years ago?!

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/NTA-National-Rail-Census-Report-2022-Final.pdf

To be clear the census was carried out on 10th November 2022, about a year and a half ago. On that day 159 people boarded at Wexford.

This line as far as Greystones is one of the busiest in the county, but south of Greystones it is by far one the quietest "intercity" line by far. The passenger numbers are terrible.

On the census day, all the stations south of Greystones handled a total of 609 passengers. To put that in context, Greystones alone handled just under 3 times that many passengers!

Just to be clear, I don't want to see this line closed, my point is that it is criminally underused and I want to see this greatly improved and for it to enjoy a big increase in service frequency and hopefully a resulting increase in usage.

acceletor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122274124#Comment_122274124

If you think it's busier in Wexford during November than any of the summer months you are deluded sir.

acceletor

Are those figures for all trains on that particular day?

end of the road

deleted as quoted wrong poster.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278924#Comment_122278924

it doesn't matter when it was carried out as ultimately it's irrelevant as it does not give an accurate picture.
the line has decent usage as i se it myself, trains right across the day full and in a lot of cases to beyond capacity.
the only reason this line would ever close is ideological reasons, not usage as usage is good but always room for more.
every single main line in the country is criminally under-used, because the stock isn't there at the moment to bump up the services and clear the car traffic, but eventually it will be.
i'm afraid i don't believe your last claim given you support the very proposal this thread is discussing, dispite being told why it will not work and is essentially a deck chair sollution.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279030#Comment_122279030

Again the point of the rail census is not to measure the highest usage of a line or station throughout the year, but to get a picture of the usage of the entire Irish Rail network (all stations) on a particular day.

A work day in November is chosen as for most lines and stations get much higher usage during a regular non summer work day when schools college are on.

The fact that folks here are claiming this line gets more usage during the summer actually reflects really poorly on the line. It means that the line isn't heavily used for commuting/school/college and instead sees the most use when one off summer tourists are using it!

That is bad, really bad, it shows how underutilised the line is and is not a positive.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279073#Comment_122279073

Yes, all passenger boardings and deboardings at the station in question all day long.

So now you see how poorly used this line south of Greystones is used?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279313#Comment_122279313

So I see you have deleted your post above, where you attacked me and said I was "incorrect again" and you claimed that the figures were from 5 years ago!

I'd appreciate an apology and an admission that I was in fact completely correct and you were wrong.

For the record this is what you claimed:

once again you are incorrect, it only handled that figure on one day 5 years ago.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122274124#Comment_122274124

The Wexford line is quieter in the mornings but busier in the evenings over the summer, always has been. Numbers are down on the first two trains from June to August but there isn't standing room the rest of the day.

bk

I do think this is a good example of how a single persons personal perception might not meet actual reality.

You might take that train on a Sunday in August and it is super busy, which makes it look like it is a busy service, but not realise that it is just one of three trains total that day so that in reality the line is horribly lightly used.

By comparison a DART station is getting a train every 10 minutes, which is well over 50 trains a day! So while an individual DART might look quieter, the station and line are actually carrying vastly more passengers throughout the day.

This is why you do surveys and rail census, to gather real statistics rather then peoples perceptions.

I honestly don't think it is at all helpful people burying their heads in the sand on how low the usage of this line is and how underutilised it is. Only if people admit the reality, that it has shockingly bad level of service and frequency, can it be fixed!

And I do want to see this line be fixed and usage improved, by increasing frequency of service.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279419#Comment_122279419

i gave you your appology by deleting the post.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279467#Comment_122279467

Which makes perfect sense, what you are saying is that it isn't used much by people trying to get to work/college and is instead more used by tourists during the summer months.

And even then it is just one of three trains per day on the weekend!

That is fine but not really a good thing, it clearly shows that the line is poorly used, which is the point I'm trying to make. Lets fix it by adding significant frequency and thus capacity to the line.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279488#Comment_122279488

nobody is burying their heads in the sand, they just aren't agreeing with you based not on perceptions but actual reality.
as i said myself i am a very regular user for nearly 40 years and use trains at different parts of the day and i see what i see.
usage of the line isn't low but like the rest of the regional lines there is room for improvement.
the vast majority of the network is mostly under-utilised in that it could support more services, that will come in time with campaigning and stock availability.

if you really do want to see frequency increases on the line and more usage ETC, then you should change your support from supporting the sub par plan this thread is discussing, to supporting the opposition to this proposal.

because the opposition to this proposal will deliver much more in the long run, even if we have to wait a bit longer.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279517#Comment_122279517

That isn't an apology, nor is this, that is just covering your tracks when you were wrong!

Fair enough if it was a simple factual mistake, we all make those some times, but you were specifically calling me out on being wrong, when you were in fact wrong, so I'd expect you to admit your mistake and a proper apology to me and to not just delete your posts.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279519#Comment_122279519

100% and that's why it isn't used is frequency and also the boneshaker of the 6am train rather than the ICR. A few people now drive to Gorey to guarantee an ICR and cut off X minutes of travel despite leaving the house at the same time.

Edited: should ahve said 6am

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122279553#Comment_122279553

because the opposition to this proposal will deliver much more in the long run, even if we have to wait a bit longer.

No it won't all it will do is leave you with the existing rubbish infrequent service.

I don't think you and others understand this. The options aren't a shuttle service with an hourly frequency or more direct services, it is the shuttle service or at best the existing direct service with terrible frequency and in the long term even that would be at risk.

As the line to Grestones gets busier and busier, there will be more and more pressure to increase the frequency of DART and there simply won't be space to fit the direct service in.

If the people in Wexford reject the findings of the AIRR, I can guarantee you Irish Rail will simply wash their hands of this line and will leave the service largely as is. They already have little enough interest in this service.

Increasing frequency of this line with a shuttle service would revolutionise this line, bringing far more capacity and frequency and would most likely lead to a big increase in the number of people using the line, which in the end is the goal.