The 2024 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122448556#Comment_122448556

Such as the 2019 semi-final where Dublin blitzed Mayo in the first ten minutes of the second half, scoring 2-6 to zero in that time. That does not happen where all a team does is pass over and back, over and back.

Or when they scored 2-6 to one point against Tyrone in the second quarter of the game in 2018 final. First point of that run set up by a stunning kick out by cluxton and mccaffrey running length of the pitch.

Sorry, this doesnt stack up.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122448683#Comment_122448683

Where did i say this ?

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122448653#Comment_122448653

And also - lack of high fielding is directly linked to what was a fairly basic strategy of just lumping the ball out from kick outs everytime and hoping for the best.

The game has moved on and its no going back to where it was.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122448849#Comment_122448849

But to be fair that's facilitated only by teams withdrawing players and allowing a short kick-out. It's not a tactic which is an absolute given. It depends on opposition response. For some reason many teams are quite content to concede possession 150 metres from their own goal rather than forcing the opponent into lumping it out to midfield.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122448625#Comment_122448625

There's no need as I already understand the issue so well. As I've said before, that Donegal team was and is overly criticised. That game in 2011 was awful as a spectacle, and Donegal deserved to be criticised for it. But they didn't win that game, they adapted and played much more positively, albeit still somewhat defensively by the standards of the day from 2012-14. So people focus excessively on that one particular game/year when Donegal wouldn't even seem that out of place by the standards of 2024, since the dour, negative tactics that Dublin introduced and perfected have become commonplace.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122448653#Comment_122448653

A contrast with no high fielding isn't "lumping" the ball down to anyone- it's just high fielding. The contrast with handpassing isn't "carelessly giving the ball away", it's just less handpassing. You're making a false dichotomy where the only options are a tactic-less game of the 1980s and the dour, negative style that Dublin introduced and perfected in recent years. As before, you're ignoring the positive developments of the 1990s, 2000s and 2010s. Even Dublin in say 2013 played quite attractive football, unlike the later Jim Gavin/Dessie Farrell years when this dour, negative style we are used become so entrenched with them, and was copied by others. There can be a lot of skill in kickpassing and high-fielding also, even club games decades ago didn't just involve keepers hoofing it to nowhere for instance. The fact that Dublin's style is legal and tactically sound doesn't make it good to watch, which is why I and countless others have criticised it. Handpassing around the 45 and kicking it over from 20 metres certainly requires less skill than points from distance, high-fielding, attacking at speed etc. It's absurd of you to claim otherwise.

I agree every team's objective is to win so it's on the GAA to adjust the rules to improve the quality of the spectacle, not on any individual team to change the tactics they currently think is best. But the negative reaction to the quality of the final from most supporters, with the exception of the usual "gaelic football is better than ever, nothing to see here folks" brigade should tell you everything you need to know. And Armagh are actually one of the teams with more attacking flair nowadays too.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122449010#Comment_122449010

But it shows that those tactics predated Dublin golden years. Dublin-Kerry 2013 was an open end to end game of football. You seem to claim that Dublin invented this. Dublin's style was modified to guarantee that they would not be defeated by this system.

gaffer91

Mod Edit

Warning issued.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122449048#Comment_122449048

But Gavin was the manager in 2013?

Anyway, the point was the spectacle of high fielding was directly linked with opportunity to high field, which was mostly from kick outs. The kick out strategies have changed, but the skill of high fielding hasnt disappeared, there is just less opportunity for it.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122449010#Comment_122449010

Watch the 2014 All Ireland and see the dour ,negative tactics that Kerry introduced to win an All Ireland at all costs that have become common place !!

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122449063#Comment_122449063

Again, you're just focusing on the defensiveness part, look at the other aspects of Dublin's dour, negative style as well. I'm looking at the package in its totality. Plus even on the defensiveness point, Dublin introduced and perfected that to a degree previously unseen. I agree on Dublin not playing this style in 2013, or even in the early Jim Gavin years. I can't recall exactly when Dublin really did bring in, I think around 2017? But they were the leader on it, and others then copied them.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122449076#Comment_122449076

Yeah and his tactics changed between 2013 and say 2017? In the same way that Jack O'Connor was Kerry manager in 2005 but his tactics were completely different in 2006 or even in 2024. Managers shake things up all the time.

High fielding hasn't been completing eliminated but it is radically reduced, mostly because of the kickouts now being taken short as you correctly say. Rule changes could change this back though, or we will be left with the worse sporting spectacle that we've seen over the last few years since Dublin brought these negative tactics in, which were on full display on Sunday.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122449048#Comment_122449048

Again Kerry introduced the dour negative tactics in the 2014 All Ireland final to win at all costs that have now become common place !!

dunnerc

Mod Edit

Warning issued.

sligeach

Remember him? 😉

Croke Park gull 'doing well' at Kildare rescue centre

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2024/0802/1463198-croke-park-gull/

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458176#Comment_122458176

Well he was in the Kildare colours, after all.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122448732#Comment_122448732

It 100% stacks up, that's why I'm saying it. You're missing the crux of what I'm saying which is that "negative" doesn't just mean defending, or low-scoring. But it doesn't change the fact that Dublin in recent years introduced and perfected a dour, negative style of endless handpassing around the 45, only taking high percentage shots, no high-fielding, 15 men behind the ball when defending etc. There can be no doubt that Dublin brought this strategy in, which others have now copied. It's up to the GAA to change the rules to improve the spectacle or we'll see supporter interest continue to collapse, as we saw this year.

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122459466#Comment_122459466

That's a wrong slant on it. I'm not from Dublin, but to insinuate that Dublin have somehow largely contributed to football becoming a less attractive spectacle is crazy. Dublin played a very attractive skillful game, with players like McCaffrey, O'Callaghan, Mannion, Paddy Small, Costello, Brogans, Cian O'Sullivan, Fenton, Paul Flynn etc. They had a few "hard men" which you also need - Cooper, McCarthy, McMahon, Michael Darragh. Like any good team, they adapted their gameplan at times to beat what was in front of them. If there are 15 opposition players in front of them, they will pass it around at speed and create a chance for a score. That part is all about perseverance and patience. How do you get the idea that Dublin are the first team to bring in the strategy of having 15 players behind the ball when defending. That's just an outright lie.

ShamoBuc

Mod Note

@gaffer91 You have long laid the blame for everything on Dublin's doorstep. At this point it can really only be seen as baiting/wumming.

That needs to stop, now.

Any issue, PM only.

robbiezero

I'd like to see the likes of Kerry and Galway figure out how to attack the opposition kick out for more than they do. Kerry almost completely abandoned it this year.

Final was an ok game, no more than that. Talking to people at it, the consensus was that the the atmosphere was savage before the game, but died down a lot during the game due to the lack of excitement.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122459588#Comment_122459588

The second half was good. First half was cagey as you'd expect.

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122459588#Comment_122459588

both kerry and galway were brutal against the blanket defense this year , normally they take it on and attack teams from outside the 45 or kick long range scores but this year both teams played with fear against the mass defense and lost as a result

armagh are an example of how affective the counter attacking game can be if defended properly

Robson99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462094#Comment_122462094

Galway were beaten once all year and that by a point while missing 5 scoreable dead ball kicks from inside the 45. That's not playing with fear imo. Galway should have won the game

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462183#Comment_122462183

i cant figure this out , galway were beaten when?

km79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462327#Comment_122462327

Last Sunday !

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462333#Comment_122462333

apparently there is a more technical eplination!!!!

Robson99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462340#Comment_122462340

You said Galway were brutal this year against blanket defenses. I'm just pointing out that if they took their 5 scoreable dead balls they would have easily won the game....blanket defense didn't beat Galway...they created 16 scoring chances in SH …took 7

The Moist Buddha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462327#Comment_122462327

the All Ireland Final, Armagh beat them by a point

The_Kew_Tour

Galway ladies taking after their male counterparts

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462551#Comment_122462551

If my aunt......