The 2024 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302229#Comment_122302229

I'd replace the current O'Byrne Cup, FBD league, etc with the provincial championships as these are mini provincial championships as is. Leinster is dead and unrecoverable. I don't see Meath, Kildare, etc touching Dublin for years if not decades. Cork might win one Munster a decade in future, not enough to save the Munster championship going forward. Ulster and Connacht are surviving but even they will lose their attraction eventually - what's the point of teams overdoing it in Ulster and Connacht and then have nothing left to give in the AI or have injured players.

I'd have no problem with a full league format for Sam Maguire, or else a conventional knock-out. But the mixture of knock-out and round-robin has not worked.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122303123#Comment_122303123

Retain the Tailtean Cup and round robin there if lesser teams want more games.

For Sam Maguire, if teams train all year and lose twice, they deserve to be out. Allowing teams 3 chances to lose and then lose again or win Sam Maguire adds nothing to the competition.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304378#Comment_122304378

Everyone is in Sam Maguire at the start of the Provincials. And those competitions stood for 100 years as straight knockout. Once you abandon that format, everything is open to debate. A second chance stood for about 15 years, and then there was a push to extend that. Which makes the mini leagues the ideal way to do it, and the reason they got a 95% vote in favour. With a nod to the power of the Provinces, with their competitions providing 8 of the last 16, and getting Seeds 1 and 2.

The home/away/neutral format makes jeopardy for even the top teams. Dublin failed to get full points last year and this, and Kerry failed last year. They need the extra games as much as anyone for a meaningful competition. When they have no oppostion in their Provinces.

gigantic09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304114#Comment_122304114

Think the tailteann finals should be left in croke park anyway.moving them to a provincial ground would attract even less support and take away any prestige the competition has.

GBXI

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304674#Comment_122304674

The provincials have to go. As someone said above, they can replace the FBD/O'Byrne etc. Munster and Leinster are an utter waste of time and they are holding back the whole competition.

Then there are two options. One, is the one I already outlined which is to copy hurling and move Dublin and Kerry into Connacht to make it Galway, Mayo, Ross, Dublin and Kerry. Then have 5 teams in Ulster - Donegal, Tyrone, Derry, Armagh, and Monaghan. Dissolve Munster and Leinster. Top one in each 'province' goes to semi finals. 2nd and 3rd from each group play each other to decide the other semi finalists. 4th are out, 5th are relegated to Tailteann.

Other option, which is what really should happen is have a league of 10 divided into two even groups of 5 and play it out in the same way as option 1. It's basically the same but with no pretense of a provincial. Home and away until semi finals makes it likely you'll have better atmosphere than those 2/3 empty Croke Park games.

Dickie10

the whole thing is working out grand all we need to do is make provinial chamionships the new prseason cups. start mid january all finished my march 1st. league starts first saturday in march and league finals could be pencilled in for croke park may bank holiday weekend. already a plus here is playing the last 3 matches oof league in april , clocks are gone back to longer evenings , maybe better pitchs too. mid may start championship group stages, finish group stages by 3rd sunday in june, quater finals on second weekend in july say july 10th/11th, semi finals, july17th/18th, all ireland final Sunday July 31st. gives loads of free football weekends and a two week break between end of league and group stages, for 8 counties not league final its 3 week break. two week breaks after quater finals /semis etc. still all done by august 1st. 28 counties of ireland can start their club championships by Saturday 17th july at the latest if they wanted.

cosatron

due to the physical exertion of all matches played now and considering that many players are working, there should be a minimum of 2 weeks between all games.

MattressRick

Im curious as to where the posters are from when they suggest making provincial championships the new preseason competitions?

I love the Connacht championship. Id like Ciaran Murphy's idea of running them like the FA cup in tandem with the championship.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122307404#Comment_122307404

I'm from the same county as yourself and I'd love to see the back of the provincials. They're the gaa equivalent of a participation medal. Even Ulster is overstated.

It's no coincidence that the two counties with the most all irelands have the easiest route to the semis year after year. Whatever about teams being imbalanced, you can't have the competition itself being totally imbalanced. If I never saw another Connaught championship match I'd be a happy man.

Robson99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306702#Comment_122306702

What about all the club players who go abroad during the summer months

LuckyLloyd

Everything will make a lot more sense once the Provincial Championships are minimised or scrapped

Contortions are being made to try and facilitate them, enough.

Pogue eile

Run it whatever which way you want, the best two teams will reach the AI no matter what.

Look at hurling as an example as it has changed drastically to pander to such fallacies. First they said Galway couldnt win an AI as they had no regular games and were coming into the AI 'cold', then it was claimed that Kilkenny were only winning 8 out of 10 AI's cos they could coast into an AI semi with no challenges. Now Limerick are dominating because apparently they are battle hardened from the Munster Championship.

It's all a nonsense, the best team wins the AI every year simples. The only reason for tinkering with formats is for the development of the game long term not to fix some perceived unlevel playing field.

Robson99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310646#Comment_122310646

Th two best teams could meet in a semi final as easy as a final

Pogue eile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310738#Comment_122310738

You get the point though yes?

paddyisreal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310646#Comment_122310646

Any team playing out of Ulster for the last 20 years competing in the all Ireland is at a massive disadvantage compared to the other provinces. The football championship is totally favored to Leinster and Munster.

blowitupref

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310430#Comment_122310430

Provincial championship have been minimised since 2001 and at least then winning it meant you reached the last 8. Now winning it only gets you into the last 16 or be as top seeds in the group. I think the group stage will need to be scrapped before it as attendance figures at those group matches are less than provincial games.

Trey13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304355#Comment_122304355

While I agree on your general point about replacing the O’Byrne/FBD with the provincial championships, I don’t think Dublin will dominate Leinster for decades.

I don’t want to get into the advantages/disadvantages argument about Dublin’s dominance as that’s been done for years.

For me, Dublin will regress sooner rather than later. They haven’t had great success at Minor/u20s for a few years now, and even when they did in 2020/21, very few from those teams have actually come through to the Seniors.

Dublin’s 6 in a row was propped up by a generational group of players which will soon come to and end. Mannion, McCaffrey, Kilkenny, Costello, Scully, Small, Fenton are all 30+. Then you have Cluxton, Fitzsimons and McCarthy who are 35+. The age profile of this team is not good and I don’t believe that any of the players under 25/26 are anywhere near as good as the 30/31 year old group. When they move on, I certainly think Dublin will regress a lot, then it’s up to the other counties to sort themselves out, which in fairness, Louth and Westmeath have done.

manofwisdom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122307404#Comment_122307404

Such suggestion should be binned straight away. No need of any preseason competitions never mind devaluing provincial championship competitions further whereby managements or teams will play 2nd or 3rd string teams in those type matches and a fraction of the crowds turning up for those matches than we currently get.

NFL should start IMO the first or 2nd weekend of Jan and all finished finals and all by March. Give championship football room to breath then and not have teams only have one week between the end of the league and the start of the provincial championship.

This weekend we have pure nonsense scheduling also, All Ireland Quarter finals should be good competitive games most if not all decided on fine margins late on but i fear we'll get a few miss matches due to Roscommon,Derry,Galway and louth playing their 3rd intense Championship match in 14 days and up against a rested opponent

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311104#Comment_122311104

Winning a Provincial put you in the last 4. Only Kerry and Dublin took advantage of that. Roscommon and Mayo have no excuse for not building up a big number of All Irelands, given how easy it was to get to the Semi Final. Ironically most of Mayo's close calls have been since 2001. 8 AI Finals contested since 2004, only 10 in all their history before that. And they have the same number of Connacht titles as Galway.

24 different counties have reached the last 8 since 2001, Louth being the newest this year. The new formats have proved successful to that extent, but not to dislodge Kerry and Dublin from their domination. This latest one is only going for 2 years and has already provided 4 new counties in the last 8 in Year 2, compared to Year 1. I don't see the reason for a rush to scrap it so soon. Nothing else will bring back the crowds, which have been in decline for 20 years. I think that is a social change, more than anything to do with football on the pitch.

castletownman

I'd actually copy the American sport approach (perish the thought) and replace the Provincial championships with Conferences. Scrap the pre-season shite and start late-March. League ran as normal but starting earlier.

Western Conference: the Atlantic seaboard counties from Cork up to Sligo, with Roscommon, Leitrim and Dublin (no less analomous as Galway hurling in Leinster). 10 teams.

Eastern Conference: remaining Munster and Leinster counties, with London and New York playing off for the final berth in the conference proper. 14 teams

Northern Conference: as is. 9 teams (maybe even add Louth or someone to Ulster to make up the 10, and allowing both London and NY in the Eastern championship proper).

2 groups of 5 in Western: 4 guaranteed games. Top two in final.

Could probably go with a 5-5-4 group breakdown in Eastern with the amount of teams, and maybe three groups of three in Northern (or 5-5 if including Louth). Point being every team guaranteed at least two conference games.

Three conference champions straight into AI quarter-finals (and the advantage that would bestow)- everyone else battling out in a straight-knockout for the last spots. Or maybe have league position determine places. Losing conference finalists have home advantage.

Losers of London/NY guaranteed a home game in the restructured 'B' championship (if Northern conference remains just the Ulster counties), with the losers from the wildcard rounds in the draw too.

Something like that would be cool. Although someone better than me at devising a structure of the matches would make it look better.

Dickie10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311220#Comment_122311220

Im in same boat i think theres huge competition in dublin for young lads with soccer and rugby plus great facilities for swimming and athletics etc. also huge amount to do apart from GAA just look at all the summer concerts for one thing, playing GAA wont make you an idol really in dublin that it will in roscommon or tyrone etc.

Also dublin football team as a product i dont know how staycity are not going mad, dublin now rarely on live terristrial tv compared to 10 years ago. theres massive competition for hearts and minds in dublin. working class areas are losing huge amounts of Dublin senior team support to League of Ireland socccer, they are getting massive crowds compared to 15 years ago, Leinster rugby is sweeping up the middle class Dublin GAA support. kids just dont see Dublin team on tv in same regularity they see shamrock rovers or Bohemians or Leinster and Ireland rugby.

the final nail is this isnt the 1970s when country people, usually the brightest , most driven and most talented from villages across Galway, Longford, Kerry Donegal etc descended on Dublin for work and were happy to stay there and bring up their families there and drive on GAA clubs with other country people. now these people that are into GAA will, in a lot of cases want to bring up their kids in commuter belt mainly because houses are cheper but also they have been scarred by the Dublin senior football team mentality , Hill 16 thing, they would rather if at all possible not have thier kids being dubs, but instead play for wicklow, Kildare, Meath, Louth GAA clubs and keep hold of their own parents small parish traditional morals and outlook.

In 1970s the parents of dublin players now 30+ from country which most are, were more happy sometimes delighted to rid themselves of rural ireland small minded mentality and badly ran GAA clubs mired in family names and always suffering the crime of Nepotism , valley of the squinting windows syndrome. the new families are products of the late 90s /early 2000s where rural ireland was more idylic and open place and these families want to settle in little towns and villages like thier home places were in Lietrim, Kerry etc.only they are within 20 mins of Dundrum or Blanch shopping centre and can go into town to concerts or shopping or matches but not be considered dubs. but probably cost of housing is aiding most of this.

david mcwilliams reckons that a lot of formely working class areas of dublin like cabra and inchicore is now becoming very middle class as the sons and daughters of D4/D6/D8 parents are completly blown out of the water when trying to buy a house in those postcodes so have to go into dublin 1/3/7 these people would be Leinster rugby fans over GAA fans so thats happening too. for dublin gaa to maintain their decent run they need to get going in places like Erins Isle and Thomas Davis again which in fairness has started to become strong in last year or two. but yeh defenitley can see dublins reign in leinster under threat in next 4 years. can see them actually fall from top 5 in next 10 years. its amazing to think were not talking about the next dublin GAA superstar aged under 23/24 there dosent seem to be any.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306840#Comment_122306840

Before the official quarters, agreed.

blowitupref

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311322#Comment_122311322

Winning your provincial championship 2001 to 2017 put you in the last 8. Excuse would be the general strength of Kerry and Dublin and don't think many would be expecting Roscommon to building All Irelands when it's a task on their hands to overcome both Galway and Mayo in Connacht.

One example on attendance figures. Roscommon v Mayo Connacht semi final in Hyde Park in April the crowd was 14k they played each other in the same venue again in the All Ireland group stages on June 1st and only 8,597 attended that game.

Jarlath Burns gave a big hint during the recent draw that the groups format will be coming to end fairly soon.

I see sheep

Will Sat 13th July be Tailteann Cup final then a Sam Maguire Semi?

Think that was it last year, does anyone remember the times? Do they ever have 2pm/4pm on Sat or would it likely be later like this weekend?

(Booking a flight back to Dublin and wondering could I squeeze it in). Thanks

skeleton_boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313698#Comment_122313698

Last year it was TC final at 3pm and AI semi-final at 5.30pm. I'd imagine it'll be something similar this year

C__MC

Kerry

Dublin

Armagh

Donegal

legendary.xix

Players and managers like the rhythm of a game every two weeks. Three group games, quarter-finals, semi-finals and final should see six games every second weekend. A game every two weeks should allow for the logistics of Round 1 winners playing each other in Round 2.

Back to the field of play, it'll be interesting to see what challenge Roscommon and Louth can pose. The challenge of Galway and Derry should also be interesting. Kerry will be finally well tested after sauntering through the championship so far.

MacDanger

I think Kerry will be coming in a bit cold and Derry will rattle them, the ET last week might count against them in the end though

gormdubhgorm

I was told that Kelly has moved to midfield because he was caught out too much rampaging from full back. But the match I saw Kelly in that role (I think it was Armagh) in the 2022 AIQF.

As a Dub supporter I am pleased at that. Because I thought Kelly flying in causing havoc from full back was very difficult to mark. He just used to appear. I don't know why other counties do not try the same trick. After all it works great in the soccer why not in the football?

billyhead

The only upset I can see this weekend is the Rossies beating Armagh.