Thinking about getting a gundog as family pet

wersal gummage

Hi there,

Have spent fairly extensive amount of time researching but would welcome any informed input.

We are thinking of getting a dog. Preference for a puppy and while a shelter is very kind thing to do, we have primary school age kids and I don't want to risk it with a somewhat unknown element being brought into the House (so really I'm not asking people to say they got a wonderful staffie from a shelter and it's great, I'm just not willing to go that route).

We live in a suburb of Dublin. Small enough,fenced garden. Near a few parks. Both adults in house grew up with dogs, I understand pretty much what we are signing up for.

I'm reading so much contradictory material online, much of it I think from America so again grateful for any input here.

I'd like an Irish setter but think probably impractical. On this, some contradictory things I'm reading:

1. Need a large garden (makes sense and we don't have one ). On the other hand people are saying on other websites they want a setter, they have a big garden, and the common response is it doesn't matter, a dog won't occupy itself in the garden unless you are out there with it.... So is a larger dog even an option with a smaller garden ? This obviously means dog would be out for long walks etc.
2. Setter needs significant off lead exercise, makes perfect sense. However, most comments suggested poor recall (but again level of intelligence of owners and level of discipline and training effort unclear). Also how socially acceptable is it to let a relatively large dog bound around a Dublin park ?
3. Golden retriever obvious dog but I couldn't deal with the shedding based on my experience.
4. Cocker spaniel, on some grounds some perfect compromise but large number of comments saying slightly mad / highly strung etc...

Any thoughts or comments on this ? To be clear I won't get a dog that would be miserable or subject a dog to a small space if clearly bad for the dog. We are very active and someone always home and dog would get signing exercise so not worried about that too much.

Thanks

wersal gummage

Ps , I don't think hugely relevant, but we have a decent sized house, just garden on smaller side. When googling this kind of thing all results I'm finding seems to relate to apartments or no garden etc.

wersal gummage

Sorry last comment,I can't edit. "signing" meant to say a dog would get significant exercise and not hugely concerned with that but obviously significant off lead exercise in urban (big enough) parks is a question mark surely

Shoog

Any of the big working dog are meant to be out in the field all day everyday. Don't give them that and they will get frustrated and that is where the real danger to children comes in. Setters are energetic and nervy always ready for action.

Some of the non working spaniel breeds might be a better fit.

tk123

I live in a small terraced house with 2 retrievers. They sleep most of the day while I work from home. They’re not interested in the garden (which is small) unless their humans are out there with them. We live beside a park, cemetery is a few mins away and lots other nice places around to walk.. so no - you don’t need a huge house or garden - just a big sofa! Our DCC park allows dogs off lead before 11 so they get some off lead time each morning. My almost 3 year old has great recall… the baby who’s 8 months is in his teenage running over to everyone stage so gets limited time off when safe to do so with lots of recall practice.

Regardless of the breed puppies nip and jump and can be exasperating idiots even for experienced owners - a pup is likely to nip/jump/scrape your kids so an older dog may be a better fit in your situation. A gun dog pup will also have the arm pulled off you leading to miserable walks for both of you until they learn how to walk nicely .. which they forget in their teens and have to be taught again.. all of my pups have landed me in urgent care with pulled muscles in my back, one resulted in an MRI and most recently the dentist after being head butted in the teeth (again!!) . Don’t get me wrong I love my dogs dearly by puppies are hard work which a lot of people don’t realise! That’s why so many are surrendered. You also have to limit their exercise meaning they have a lot of energy to burn at home when they’re young ie causing havoc! 😂

wersal gummage

Thanks for the input.

Shoog, do you differentiate at all between field and show lines or would your comment just apply across the board ?

Tk, yes thanks I'm very familiar with retrievers, and puppy behaviour! I also spent years bringing a retriever to public parks, beaches etc at the appropriate times but always had highly trained , intelligent, (biddable?!) dogs that would walk by my side, return immediately when called etc... so I'd be comfortable letting a retriever off in a park , happy I'd get it back again and it wouldn't go too far! My concern with something like a setter is that apparently they have multiples of the energy a retriever has and if let off lead might run a mile away and sort of run in wide loops etc and may never come back.... This based on some random people on the internet, then I've read and seen videos of setters trained and returning when called... So my comment about the public park is more in the context of a fairly wild dog that might run at speed for some distance etc, also those parks very easy to leave for a dog who is far out of sight

SuperBowserWorld

Good, regular, positive reinforcement training should address your worries ? You are avoiding a lot of good dogs by avoiding shedding 😁

wersal gummage

Ps tk, thanks re kids. I'm happy enough that our kids are old enough to survive with a puppy and I think it's a good time to get a dog actually for them, but I hear you re nipping etc.

I'm happy enough I could manage an energetic puppy, touch wood I'm in good health, I'd be on the big / strong side and would run about 100km a week at the moment as well as walking, cycling, gym etc so also feel possible a high energy dog (when old enough) could join me for a jog in the mornings etc.

Thanks again for the comments

tk123

My friend has setters and yes they do kind of zoom around but they don’t just take off heading for the hills lol. They’re incredibly gentle sweet dogs like retrievers. Her dogs would be show type so big retrievers not the smaller working kind.

wersal gummage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997741#Comment_121997741

Oh I am ok with shedding! I don't want a poodle or any version of a doodle or anything like that.

Maybe we were unlucky but my parents brushed up enough hair every week to make another retriever so I just couldn't deal with that in the house. Obviously less shedding the better but I'd say I could deal with up to a moderate amount !

On your training comments, that's really part of my main question. Can you train something like a setter and would it be ok with say an hour off lead in the morning, maybe 45 mins in the evening of a mix between on and off lead (again going back to my question, can they be trained to come back!! ) .

mountai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996852#Comment_121996852

A good bit of advice . IMHO , Setters , are bred for hunting and demand "Field conditions " and need too much exercise for a " Home Pet " . I would go for a small breed Springer type , and it would be a Bitch . Very biddable if you put the time in to training them , loyal and great with children .

wersal gummage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997758#Comment_121997758

Thanks tk, would you mind giving any info you have on your friends set up ? Is s/he living rural or in a house with gardens the side of football pitches etc ? Do the dogs need more than 2x an hours walk over day ? Would you describe the show types as bigger than a retriever or similar size ? Thanks and sorry for all the questions, as much as I'd like a setter I do get the sense it might not be the right move but don't want to make my decision based purely on Americans comments!

wersal gummage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997827#Comment_121997827

Thanks. My instinct was telling me similar to be honest, just worried the springers can be a bit nuts, very clingy and yappy but maybe all comes down to good training.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997846#Comment_121997846

I grew up with springers so obviously I am biased. They need a decent walk once a day but otherwise, Ive never noticed any yappy-ness. Not sure what you mean by clinginess, they are very sociable and like to be with their owners. Ours went everywhere with us, even on long trips to Scotland.

One was very caring and when she had a litter of pups, she adopted a kitten that had been abandoned near us and breastfed the kitten. Great around kids and also very protective. So long as they get brushed regularly, shedding would not be as much of an issue with say a labrador.

wersal gummage

Thanks lamb shank.

Clingy would be something I'm picking up a lot when reading on-line about the breed and I think it means prone to separation anxiety,kind of constantly at your feet etc.. so really not my own view or based on anything other than "Google ". possibly a positive for some people but I'd prefer a dog who is ok with a bit of independence, I don't mean dog will be abandoned, or left alone for long periods, but don't want a dog that's glued to me and gets very upset when I leave the house etc.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997968#Comment_121997968

One of ours only got like that when she saw the suitcases in the hall. Anxious we would leave her behind, then just before the off, we'd open the car boot and point to it and she'd happily jump in.

It would be the same for most dogs if you will be leaving the house for long time. You didnt mention if you work from home or not?

wersal gummage

Currently, and for a few years now, there's someone working from home every day. I guess there's no guarantees it'll always be that way though

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998037#Comment_121998037

Im hoping its pretty much guaranteed for me! I can't be doing with the commute anymore, when I mostly work alone any way, but we shall see.

2 of my colleagues have labradors, live in apartments, but work from home 70-90% of the time each. My bosses lab is clingy, and sometimes interrupts meetings looking for attention, but its not an annoyance, its cute for anyone else on the call.

Murt10

I had 2 springer and live in suburbia.

Springers are hunting dogs. Its hot wired into their brains to walk 30' -40' ahead of the hunter, ducking and diving into every bit of cover where game might hide, rising them to be shot at. They also loved chasing rabbits.

They're not meant to be walked on the lead. They're not like retriever breeds, who will walk by your side, until there's something to be fetched. If you take them spaniels for a walk in an estate, the hunting instinct kicks in and they go hunting. People who own cats rightly get upset when their hunter/killer becomes the hunted.

I walked them daily, but I had to drive to a park or fields to let them off the lead.

As for the size of the garden, they didn't care. It was just somewhere to go to relieve themselves, before coming back indoors, to stare out the window.

tritriagain

I have a 9 year old male cocker spaniel and a 2 year old retriever both great family pets. Have a large garden and loads of fields to walk but the cocker is happy to lie on couch all-day but he really is a dog in a million. Retriever needs more exercise and sheds barrowfulls but he's worth it. I think if I were you I'd got for a non working line cocker.....I don't think you'll regret it

Buddy Bubs

Ive 2 labradors, they shed but in a different way to a golden retriever. I won't have a other dog breed the best word I can use to describe the labradors is adaptable, they'll do whatever I ask them to do. Out all day, no problem they'll tag along, in all day they'll laze around. Mountains, beaches, rivers, parks, other dogs no problem.

1 of them hates cats and goes mad at them but that's fine.

As pups they're a handful though

wersal gummage

Thanks for all your comments, much appreciated.

I'll do some further work / research but an initial thought is the Welsh springer spaniel looks good if a non working line could be found. Doesn't seem a popular choice so not sure what availability would be like.

I'm happy to walk off lead etc but dog would need to learn to heel and walk on lead for the few mins walk to the park.

tritriagain

OP, did you go for a springer after. I had a bitch before ..god she was a beautiful soul. Mad as a hatter but what a companion. Hope whatever you decided on that you get many years of love and happiness.

borderlinemeath

Very late commenting on this but I have 4 Irish Setters. And 2 cats.

For the most part our setters have been from working lines, but our last addition is mainly show. He's bigger and more feathered. Behaviour wise he's slightly less work than the working dogs, but they all need a good off lead run. I have never had any issue with training a good recall, and training in general I find very easy with them, they do shed a bit of hair, but way less than golden retrievers. Although I'm slightly immune to red hair at this stage.

They are excellent family dogs, when we brought our daughter home from the hospital we had 3, and at a couple of stages in her life have had 5 setters. They took really well to the cats when they arrived as kittens last year (apart from my elderly boy accidently sitting on one!) All of my current setters are rescues, and I don't think I'll ever have a pup again, there are always setters popping up in rescues needing good homes.

I have met a welsh springer a few years back, they are lovely, but are a rare breed here. Springers in general are like a duracell battery, from experience they need more stimulation than an IS, there is no "off button" but they are lovely family dogs if you have the energy.

circadian

I know you're thinking of a gundog but I would consider a sighthound like a lurcher or greyhound. They don't need extensive walks and a few sprints off lead once or twice a day along witha. walk does the trick. They generally wouldn't care about a small garden and would be more concerned with a space on the sofa for themselves. Great with kids and very placid in general. If you put a little bit of effort into lead training they trot very nicely alongside.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997968#Comment_121997968

Never had a springer but a good friend does - we often walk the dogs together. He's a rescue - was about 6 when she got him. He doesn't seem to have any visible separation anxiety but he does have a few quirks, but then as a rescue who knows what he went through in the past. But his behaviour isn't problematic.

She works part time, so he's home alone for half a day at a time, and he's fine with that. Does need good long walks but recall is now excellent (took a while, TBF). He's "clingy" in that he'll jump up on the sofa and lean in hard against whoever is on there, which my dog would never do, but that's about it. It is a a bit intrusive though, and younger children can find it overwhelming.

It's true that he doesn't seem to drink much when she's not there, but then as a rescue there's a lot that's not known about his past life. Maybe he was punished for drinking from the "wrong" place? The other thing is that he has an odd habit of "spinning" whenever he's in someone else's house, or when someone comes to visit. She puts that down to whatever he went through in his previous life, maybe being kept in a tiny space. Just a guess. It's strange but harmless. He settles down eventually.

He's the sweetest wee man, and adores children. Not keen on cats. A lovely dog.

elperello

I once "inherited" a German Pointer when she failed to live up to expectations in the field.

She made a lovely pet, perfect temperament.

Happy out with a good walk but equally content to lounge around for hours on end.

Short hair too.

I still miss her.

wersal gummage

Thanks for all those comments, sorry only seeing now as hasn't logged in here in a few weeks and thought original query had died down so thanks again.

We haven't done anything yet, so all comments helpful. I would say kids would not be keen on a greyhound type, they won't have the final say and the choice won't be made on appearance, but pretty based on listening to them talking about it over last months that they'd prefer something smaller.

Yes the springer types appear to need a lot of exercise.

Nekarsulm

Red Setters are lovely dogs, but quite willful. Had one once we got from the Pound ( obviously no good as a gundog) but there was no training him by then...

We live on a farm, and even then he would hunt along every hedge, every day...

If you were doing tractor work he ran along side.

I once calculated he'd done almost 20 miles one day...

So I'd really recommend something else.

One thing about gundog breeds, especially pointers and setters: when they "set" or "point" or otherwise are focused on a target, they are effectively deaf.

Otherwise the report of a shotgun would overwhelm their very sensitive hearing.