New bus gates on Bachelors Walk and Aston Quay

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122365060#Comment_122365060

The lack of shame required to be wrong about every single public transport related concept in history and just continue on the same track is something I genuinely can't even fathom.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122365060#Comment_122365060

I often find that when people write "The latest plan should have been the subject of a much wider consultation process" they actually mean "I hadn't heard about this plan, but it's a no from me". But of course this is just "pro-ban rhetoric".

Seth Brundle

It is interesting to see an article in the Indo's Commercial Property section praising the Dublin Transportation Plan and how it will improve the city centre overall including from a public safety perspective...

https://m.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/paul-mcneive-i-was-wrong-and-the-greens-were-right-about-getting-cars-off-streets/a705030187.html

cgcsb

I think the public opinion is fairly concrete in favour of the plan. So when the watered down version happens we can probably see to some protest days to block cars off at Jervis st/ormond Quay until the proper plan is implemented.

That's how SWS got a small stretch of pedestrianisation.

Tenzor07

Just for a bit of historical perspective from 15 years ago:

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/herald/suspend-bus-gate-its-bad-for-business/27925548.html

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122366883#Comment_122366883

Back in 2009..... I'd say the global financial crisis had something to do with the downturn in trade, but yeah blame it on buses. Good grief

Paul2019

And would they seriously suggest letting private cars back into College Green now?

The ever visionary Business Lobby Groups need protecting from themselves.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363010#Comment_122363010

What you're actually asking for is a time machine...

https://www.rte.ie/archives/2015/0414/693984-traffic-chaos/

Public transport isn't ideal. But we've come a long way. Giving back capacity (priority) to private transport is trying to turn back the clock. The solution to traffic can never be more traffic.

Disco24

Shakespeare is not coming out of this looking good and is a worry for the future. Keegan I think would have stuck by the decision.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122367210#Comment_122367210

Yeap, there's no going back to having a free reign for cars through the city centre, I'm not sure if many of the objectors are old enough to remember traffic congestion in the 1980's and the thick smell of lead petrol and diesel fumes in the air that would choke you.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122366883#Comment_122366883

"The so-called 'bus gate'" Indeed, there has never been a bus-gate in any meaningful sense on College Green afaik. It is regularly full of cars.

Paul2019

I remember the congestion and pollution from the 1960s.

These same problems have festered for 60 years and here we are in 2024 with democracy being overturned by Mr Shakespeare and Fine Gael in favour of bowing to the grubby interests of some car park owners.

Capital City my arse - it's a Capital Kip.

cgcsb

I remember the early 2000s being desperate, buses took hours to get anywhere and you could hardly cross the street at all.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122367569#Comment_122367569

Dublin as bad as it is now was much worse in terms of all the lorries and cars going through the city, and the old Diesel belching ships that used to come up the quays as far as Matt Talbot bridge, not to mention the trains.. If it wasn't for the Luas, Dart, Dublin port tunnel things would be much worse.. Now we have a chance to clean up more of the city centre if only the big companies would stop obstructing it all. I'm sure they could sell off the car parks as apartments.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122367582#Comment_122367582

Another gem from the past, seems we're still having the same discussion about introducing more Bus corridors 25 years on:

https://www.rte.ie/archives/2019/0719/1064088-growing-traffic-problem/

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122367727#Comment_122367727

Very insightful comments. Was obvious to people back then what the issues (and solutions) are.

Interesting that the get up earlier doesn't really work anymore. Though obviously staggered working times helps.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122367846#Comment_122367846

People knew the issues and solutions back 25 years ago, remote working, shared office spaces in more rural areas for workers. And now the nature of work and shopping is almost completely different for many workers, no more need for all workers to be in the offices at all times, and no need to travel to the city centre to go shopping for a new fridge…

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363157#Comment_122363157

Why are they more important than the rest of us?

You need to check yourself and be grateful that you do not have to live with a disability that robs your of your mobility and limits you physically, and I genuinely hope you never have to find out what that's like. It would come as a terrible shock to you.

I have to say I find the attitudes and the vitriol towards the disabled groups on this thread disgusting. Ableism at its best.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122368987#Comment_122368987

The only thing that annoyed me about the above post is "ableism" awful manufactured term that is in vogue from the yanks IMO. The correct term should be "acting the bollix", that to me is not a creation of "other". As everyone knows what "acting the bollix" means.

Already you have road works, lack of disabled accessible pubs restaurants, disabled toilets being used as a storerooms etc Non disabled people parking in disabled bays, even blue badge abuse etc. All making life more of a hassle, for the disabled driver. Hopefully these changes might lead to more freedom for the disabled driver at last. As these bus gates might encourage more people to get the bus.

As there are plenty of people on the road who do NOT NEED to drive but are just inherently lazy, let's be honest. A disabled driver NEEDS to drive by necessity which is the while purpose of the scheme. It is freedom, it is independence for many.

I doubt things will change though, Ireland as nation a nation has a large amount of mé féiner's and begrudgers. The likes of @Thelonious Monk optimise this attitude. It is "acting the bollix" when all is said and done.

If I was in charge of of traffic and transport I would go much further, disabled drivers should be allowed to use bus lanes as well, as the technology should be there to read number plates if the person is registered for the blue badge and has it up to date. Give the mé feiners something else to moan about, while at same time do something of use.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363715#Comment_122363715

Where are you getting that from re: Grafton Street.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122368987#Comment_122368987

I think there's a middle ground.

Obviously people are concerned this is three steps forward and two back.

But legimate concerns were raised. If theres a issue of blue badge access. Not sure why we need to reinvent the wheel. What are current blue badge rules around pedestrian areas and bus lanes. Why is bus gate different.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369163#Comment_122369163

As long as there is a disabled bay - a disabled driver or passenger (blue badge holder) can park in it for as long as they like. The blue badge holder can also park in any parking bay disabled or not.

But the curtesy is not to park in a disabled bay if possible as some disabled drivers require the larger space as wheelchair users. Whereas the disabled driver who is ambulatory without a wheelchair needs less space. Also the curtesy is not to park in the bays for a prolonged period (if possible) even if you are entitled to.

Disabled drivers (blue badge holders) are currently not entitled to drive down bus lanes as per the rules for all other drivers.

Anyone that has a blue badge has to renew it every two years, if it expires it is technically no longer valid for use.

I assume the problem with the bus gate is that there is a fair bit of disabled parking bays along the quays etc, which would become inaccessible for blue badge holders, because of the bus gates.

gormdubhgorm

When these "bus gates" come in I hope that the signage is clear and not a money making cod. Like those in the example here in England.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD16cuB64PI

The implication is that the Council in question in the above case do not want to fix the signage because they are making too much money on fines.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369142#Comment_122369142

It was in an article referenced (I think) here a month or two ago. I'm on my phone but I'll try and find it later. I don't think they were entirely serious, or at least I hope not, but it was part of their completely unworkable idea that every single building should have direct car access for blue badge holders or it is discriminatory.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369208#Comment_122369208

... "fair bit" of parking on the quays.

Exactly how many spaces are we talking, and accessable to where. Are there no other alternative spaces that give similar accessable access near by?

I'm not sure why people are set against change..

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369485#Comment_122369485

It is not really a question of being unwilling to change. The disabled bays by their very nature are a method of providing accessibility, and ease of accessibility to areas of the city. A disabled bay just 2km away from where a person wants to go might be too far for an individual in question, for example. Rendering it pointless.

Below is a map of the DCC parking spaces in Dublin -

https://data.smartdublin.ie/dataset/accessible-parking-spaces-dcc/resource/efb5d349-8640-42f5-8496-d29cc718ed6d?inner_span=True

Around the area at issue there is particular high demand, and in general there have been many former disabled parking bays that have been lost to the bicycle scheme that would have been there in the past.

Obviously disabled parking has to be near be central amenities, shopping etc, for those working and for ease of access in the city centre. Think of it like a "Shannon stop over" a point from where person can "disembark" for easy access to an area.

The problem is a lot of disabled parking is unevenly spread throughout the city. There are some parts such as near Dublin City Council/Fishamble street where there are a lot of disabled parking bays, and others where there might be a single bay (Abbey Street Lower) or others that you have to know is there as it is hidden away down some more obscure side street.

Then you have practical issues such as is the bay on flat ground, is it on a hill etc? For those who use Wheelchairs.

As I said in my previous post if a blue badge holder is able to they can park anywhere with the blue badge whether it is a disabled bay or not. However, invariably it is likely that the disabled bays are only available, if at all.

Daith

There's an interesting map. There's one disabled parking bay on Bachelor's Walk?

Should that mean we can never restrict that section of Bachelor's Walk and have to allow access? That's what the change is suggesting.

There are other bays nearby but it would mean a slightly longer route.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370199#Comment_122370199

Did you look at that map? I did which is why I asked the question. There almost no blue badge parking on that route. A handful, very much not a "fair bit" and certainly the nearest alternatives are not 2km away.

I also ask because in my entire life I don't think I've parked on the quays more than a handful times. Any of the places I would have parked for are long gone or have an alternative around the corner.

Flinty997

Hills on the quays? Seriously.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370294#Comment_122370294

Question I have does someone with a wheelchair badge in a car get priority over someone with a wheelchair badge who took the bus.

cgcsb

I counted a total of 1 disabled parking spots on Bachelors walk, and this was the only parking spot on bachelors walk. Solution: sacrafice the bike parking beside the Morisson Hotel, convert it to a disabled parking bay. then implement the scheme fully and put in new bike parking, in much greater amounts on Bachelors walk, so everyone is happy.

cgcsb

It's starting to look like a sit in protest blocking the left turn on onto OCS is the only solution, since Shakespear is determined to do a solo run on this, it'll have to be met with people power. Sad that this has to be done.

Seth Brundle

1787 jobs to be lost and a reduction in spending of €141m alleged by car park body trading body Dublin City Centre Traders Alliance.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/dublin-car-ban-will-slash-retail-spending-in-the-city-and-lead-to-loss-of-1787-jobs-claims-report/a2062422110.html

Dublin Commuter Coalition, call it out for the nonsense that it is…

https://irishcycle.com/2024/07/11/cold-water-poured-on-report-paid-for-by-traders-alliance-estimating-impact-from-dublin-traffic-plan/

Podge_irl

The economic report was written by PMCA Economic Consulting’s managing director, Pat McCloughan. He previously authored a report that predicted that a traffic and public realm plan for Lucan Village, which would result in a reduction of just ten (10) car parking spaces and no major traffic movement changes, would lead to a loss of 53% of the 600 jobs in the area.

I remember that 🤣

cgcsb

ah yes the reason why Lucan village is still a hellhole surrounded by housing estates.

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370524#Comment_122370524

This is probably the best report they could have produced - something unfounded in facts. Hopefully Mr. Shakespeare disregards the report but I won't hold my breathe.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370890#Comment_122370890

Nice place for a walk though ;)

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370973#Comment_122370973

Based on the noises he has made, it appears he's a cronie, the quality of the report is irrelevant. We'll need Dublin cycling campaign / commuter coalition to go into the trenches over this.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370890#Comment_122370890

Coincidentally the constituency for Ms Higgins TD, who as it happens was opposed to the changes in Lucan

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122371282#Comment_122371282

If they want to live in unwalkable sh1tholes with no centre, I'm cool with it. The centre of Tallaght needs that SDCC money anyway.

Seth Brundle

The Climate and Health Alliance have written to Mr Shakespeare of their opposition to any move away from the Dublin Transportation Plan…

https://twitter.com/ClimHealthIre/status/1811725322552738140

Their membership includes:

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122372484#Comment_122372484

Are they advocating for the implementation of the original scheme or the revised proposals to accommodate blue badge holders? I feel the latter proposal is a given at this stage.

Kermit.de.frog

A lot of people seem to be missing a fundamental point here and it comes down to planning over decades but in particular the last 20 years.

What have they done in the last decade to the city center?

They've stuffed in as much social housing, addiction centers and homeless hostels as they can in to the area particularly D1. The results everyone sees everyday.

This has a serious impact on the very businesses complaining most about this (particularly more upmarket) because what they will correctly say is that a lot of their customers are never going to use public transport.

Not only have they ghettoised the city center with drug abuse, begging and anti-social behaviour which businesses endure daily - they now want to take away their customers.

If you take away cars it leaves these businesses hopelessly reliant on a small catchment population where income can't support them by design of planning.

The problems are unfortunately very fundamental.

This traffic plan is just another victim of the appalling neglect of the city center and that is why it can not go ahead.

If they treated the city center with respect and stopped making it the dumping ground for all social ills this could go ahead no problem.

That's not where Dublin City Center is. Everyone knows it.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122372843#Comment_122372843

I don't go into the city centre because of accessibility issues. It takes too long in a car and it takes too long in a bus. The only solution I can see is that cars are restricted from going through the city centre and people like me can regain the city centre on public transport.

MJohnston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122372843#Comment_122372843

This is an insane rambling post, and truly insane thought processes to create it. It's so insane I can't even constructively respond to it, because there's nothing sensible in it to attach a point to.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122373189#Comment_122373189

It's all true and ideologues will never engage with fact so your response is absolutely no surprise.

The concerns of these businesses is entirely justified.

Podge_irl

If you take away cars it leaves these businesses hopelessly reliant on a small catchment population where income can't support them by design of planning.

This is hilariously and hysterically wrong on so many levels.

They're trying to take away cars transiting the city whose occupants aren't spending diddly on anything. And neither the majority of shoppers or the majority of retail spend are drivers.

The concerns of these "businesses" are mostly related to their car parks. The project is supported by far more actual city centre businesses.

Polar101

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/dublin-city-transport-plan-barra-roantree-6434736-Jul2024/

Assistant professor doesn't think the new "analysis" is too great.

"If this analysis were submitted as an undergraduate dissertation to the university I teach in, I would fail it. It shouldn’t have any role in informing the debate around the Dublin City Transport Plan."

monument

No, the concerns are not justified.

If they were their "expert" report wouldn't be full of holes and your post wouldn't be so non-factual.

Sustainable transport already accounts for the majority of shoppers and the plan targets through traffic while still allowing access to the car parks. So, nobody is talking car users or the majority of customers away

Furthermore it's daft to suggest the city centre or even D1 is just social housing. In the city centre overall the problem is the opposite of that you claim -- too much of the new housing is at the higher end and unfordable to most.

loco_scolo

Gotta love this plan!!

Edit: how do you embed a tweet?!!..

https://x.com/aaroadwash/status/1811858842764075133?s=19