Biden v Trump (and one or two others) The US Presidential election 2024. Read OP before posting

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333883#Comment_122333883

It's not too late (but every day of prevarication does not help).

Biden needs to withdraw, release his delegates and enable a short, sharp contest. The party will unite behind the winner (it's not like they have any choice).

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333833#Comment_122333833

Not a huge amount of restraint there in her statement towards Biden or indeed any effort required to “read between the lines” - it’s as plain as it gets

osarusan

Dems need to act fast and be ruthless. Biden needs to release some statment that on mature reflection he has decided not to run for a second term.

Then they get somebody else in, at the convention or ideally before it. The Republicans will have a field day for a while about how panicked they are, and about how they are breaking with tradition and all that (all of which will be true) but that will pass (the earlier they get it out of the way, the more distant a memory it is), and they'll be left with a younger, more energetic candidate, any of whom would destroy Trump in debates. None of them will come without baggage, but I think that what they need right now is somebody that they can rally round - Biden could serve that function in 2020, but he can't any more.

There are posters on here saying 'it's a binary choice between Trump and Biden, who do you vote for?' but there is a real that danger a cohort of voters who are Democrat-leaning just will not be energised to vote for Biden this time.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333972#Comment_122333972

You make a good point. I mean I detest Trump - he embodies all the qualities that a person running for president should not have (and none of the ones they should).

But could I, in good conscience, vote for Biden? (if I had a vote, which I don't) There will be an enthusiasm gap that manifests in a reluctance to vote for a clearly diminished candidate. Voters should not be expected to ignore the evidence of their own eyes.

ronjo

Is there polls out there among Democrat leaning voters on whether they would prefer Biden to withdraw or not? They must certainly be making internal ones

batman75

I can only assume that Joe and Jill Biden genuinely think that he is capable of beating Trump. If so that represents a scary lack of self awareness. Jill's post debate behaviour towards her husband bordered on patronising. He is either power hungry or genuinely thinks their is a lack of credible alternative within the Democrat party to defeat Trump.

The ultimate loser as it stands is America. They will either get a sitting President for another four years who is showing clear signs of cognitive and physical decline or they'll get a narcissistic pathological liar devoid of scruples. Putin, Xi and other world leaders must be laughing after that debate. The self styled leading democracy in the world and you have these two old guys clearly below standard to be the next president of the US and one of them is an incumbent. A truly pathetic state of affairs.

Both these guys have a strong patronage of Israel so neither represents much hope of a change of strategy. Until America becomes an honest broker Israel will be able to continue slaughtering Palestinians.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333972#Comment_122333972

As long as Biden is still in the game, the "who do you vote for?" question still stands. And remember, it's not just one guy you're voting for, you vote for a party (or in the Republicans case the nutjob MAGA faction of the party). A President is just the cap on top of a very large bottle. Some people seem to believe that the President of the US does every single thing himself.

Now, while "who do you vote for?" remains a valid question - and given what's on offer on the other ticket, a vote for Biden/Dems is the obvious choice) - if Biden steps down, the pressing question becomes "who replaces him?" and so far, I've seen few answers to that question.

A couple of people have suggested Newsom, but I'll admit to knowing very little about him, other than he's the Gov of California, and I'd wager that many, many, others (including Americans) are in the same boat in that regards.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122334024#Comment_122334024

True. But the "evidence of their own eyes" goes both ways in this choice and we know what Trump is all about. Does one ignore the problems that Biden exhibits or the ones that Trump does?

Neither candidate here is an unknown factor and ignorance can't be claimed whoever gets ushered into the White House in November (assuming Biden is still on the cards then).

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122334982#Comment_122334982

Agreed re Trump but the current conversation is almost solely about Biden, It's not 1970s Soviet Russia and standing a waxwork for President won't fly.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335112#Comment_122335112

Perhaps.

But the choice remains the current one and a Trump presidency would be a disaster for nearly everyone, including the impoverished that he falsely claims to champion.

What's on offer here aren't great options for Americans and, subsequently, the rest of us.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335152#Comment_122335152

We can certainly agree on all of that.

So the onus is on Biden, and the Dems, to offer better choice.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335168#Comment_122335168

Agreed.

But then the other question still stands.

Who's the "better choice" that the Dems have to offer?

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335178#Comment_122335178

I think the most realistic candidates (as opposed to people hyped up by idiots - such as Michelle Obama or Hilary Clinton) are:

• Kamala Harris
• Gavin Newsom
• Gretchen Whitmer

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122334024#Comment_122334024

If the alternative is Trump, anyone with a spark of common sense would vote for literally anything bar him. A head of cabbage would be a preferable alternative. Trump is deranged but the rump of clingers on that come with him are downright dangerous. A mixture of religious headbangers and hate filled anti-establishment fascists. Voting for Trump might not seem like a big deal to the generally not very savvy average American but they are without doubt giving him and his henchmen licence to seriously degrade democracy in the US and open up the world to powerful actors who are far less amicable than the US. They're potentially also voting for a situation in the not too distant future that they or their children may have to go to war and it won't be a turkey shoot like Afghanistan and Iraq.

Danzy

Nevada, Virginia, Wisconsin all now coming in to play in polls.

Trump leading in New Hampshire, probably the most white and middle class state in America, If a Democrat can't win there, it's over.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4750341-trump-leads-biden-new-hampshire/

badabing106

She is now the clear favourite to be the next Democratic nominee !! This is sensational. An announcement on 4th July?

Her recent polling against Trump is better than Biden

She wasn't considered a credible runner for the top role until now. She has a great chance to be the next Commander and Chief !!

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election/winner

ELM327

Never gonna happen. IBTL

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335214#Comment_122335214

All these things are true.

The reality is that this election will be won and lost at the margins and, if there is an enthusiasm gap on one side (such as there will be for Biden), that side will lose.

So all sensible Americans should be clamouring for Biden to be replaced.

Danzy

Kamala Harris is very unpopular,

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335201#Comment_122335201

Can he be replaced.

Newsom is California, same as Harris, that ticket would be a West Coast love in and the rest of America would know it. California is also a real shi7hole now and a lot of that is on Newsom.

Whitmer would be like Biden in a lot of ways, coming from the old class of Democrats, steeped in working class blue collar communities but still able to connect with the ivy league types that now dominate the activist base and increasingly the voter base.

I would say she would probably beat Trump and bring in a lot of Congress candidates etc.

Looks like he might stay and we have the strange scenario of media outlets who pretended Joe was ok for years but let lose last week having to try roll it back.

In 2019 in the Democrat debates others kept saying Joe, did you forget that?. It was known then that Joe was starting in to dementia.

Hande hoche!

Would be interesting to see who she would pick for the VP slot…

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335201#Comment_122335201

Nobody serious is taking any notice of ejits suggesting the likes of M. Obama. That's all baloney.

But the trio you mention have been batted about. The problem with that group, however, is that none of them are particularly interesting replacements. Harris won't get it IMHO, as too many Americans just flat out don't like her. Whitmer and Newsom remain unknown quantities and will end up being a big risk. Perhaps as big a risk as staying with Biden.

In saying that, I'll have to look into what Newsom is all about when I get the time. Because the current zeitgeist seems to be suggesting that he's the front runner if and when the Dems pull the trigger.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335219#Comment_122335219

And that's in the Hill too, a well known democrat biased paper.
I almost feel for the democrats but they got themselves into this mess themselves. You can't start campaigning in July for election this year and expect to win, so for me it has to be Biden that they nominate. As mad as it sounds, he's the most likely democrat to win - even if a non trump win is looking increasingly unlikely at all.

I think that, vs 2020's highs in turnout, voter apathy will hit big this time. Which favors the GOP which will do better on low turnout. There's a likelihood that the GOP not only win the EC but actually win the (completely irrelevant and non consequential) popular vote.

As an aside, one of the trendsetters for the global nature of US presidents, and probably my favorite POTUS, Woodrow Wilson, served 2 terms without ever getting more than 50% in the public votes and indeed holds the record (afaik anyway) for lowest popular vote for an election victory at just 41%.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335262#Comment_122335262

I'll give you some examples of other 'unknown quantities':

• Bill Clinton
• Barack Obama
• Jimmy Carter

90%+ of Americans would have said 'who?' to those names too. They all won.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335262#Comment_122335262

Whitmer would be the best candidate imo, for many reasons. Any issues with her visibility would disappear the minute she became candidate. It would dominate the news, and you can be sure there would be ads out about her from both sides immediately.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335296#Comment_122335296

Perhaps. But they all had the benefit of being nominated by their party in the natural process and not parachuted in with just 5 months to go before voting day because the original nominee locked up. So, I don't think they're entirely the same.

badabing106

Looks like the decomcrats are pushing for kamilla in a big way!

This is Amazing! She was personna non grata for the last 3 years ! And was never considered a runner until now!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/jul/03/biden-debate-democrats-kamala-harris-election-updates

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335307#Comment_122335307

Would you care to elaborate on those reasons?

ancapailldorcha

I hope Biden stays but if not, Harris is the logical choice.

I see sheep

Hopefully we'll see it, will be interesting anyway. Bored of the 2 mentally impaired codgers now.

Hande hoche!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335326#Comment_122335326

Would you lose any votes over it?