?????? v Trump (and one or two others) The US Presidential election 2024. Read OP before posting

The Phantom Jipper

Out of curiosity, when Harris picks Shapiro or Kelly to be her running mate, will these guys be getting labelled as diversity picks? Or will she still be the diversity pick despite being the incumbent on the ticket?

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122411616#Comment_122411616

How will their lives be upturned?

A comment by my pretty politically uninterested daughter at the dinner table yesterday started a discussion. (Shes 15, I really don’t care that she’s not politically engaged). She observed that her foreign friends on Discord seemed to be more interested than she would expect in the US presidential election.

My wife agreed. She works for a company out of Finland, and they are all following it closely as well, and of course, I’m watching it here. We think it’s because foreigners think that the President can actually do a lot, given heads of government in other countries normally do. But to be head of government in a place like the UK, you also need to be of the party controlling the legislature. And in those countries, there is basically no limit to the laws which can be passed.

Such is not the case in the US. Most of my life is controlled by the State and local government, not by D.C. What does get passed by DC still has to run the gauntlet of two chambers of congress, either one of which (or both) can be controlled by the party opposing the President. Regulatory changes conducted after moves by new political appointees in agencies more normally affect businesses, not people.

The biggest concern I have with Trump as regards the direction of the country is in terms of foreign relations. That is directly in the office’s wheelhouse, but it doesn’t directly upturn my life one way or the other if Ukraine is abandoned, for example. It’s bad, and I hope it doesn’t happen, but my life here will more or less continue as normal for the next few years. (That said, if he decides to go all in on ego and use the US military, it might).

So what part of the US citizen’s life will be upturned with a Trump presidency that doesn’t require that Democrats (and moderate Republicans and independents) also perform abysmally?

Babyreignbow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412744#Comment_122412744

good thing everyone is tired of old white men then

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412787#Comment_122412787

the foreign policy stuff you mention, NATO etc. but also electing more justices to the bench and pushing for Project 2025 stuff, like going for an outright federal ban on reproductive healthcare. I don’t know what the situation is in Texas but in some states there is already no exceptions for rape, ergo rapists get to choose the mother of their children. Nevermind the risk to any pregnant woman anywhere of an ectopic pregnancy. And that’s all without consideration to the onerous corruption what with national secrets and the money flowing in from foreign nationals, that doesn’t fit your descriptor of things that would directly affect the ordinary person.

Last time he was in office my work was affected by his Tarrif war and my academia was affected by his ban on visas for many foreign exchange students, what work did and who I interacted with or not was dramatically impacted as a result of his policies. Without any consideration to how he mismanaged the national covid response and played around with all that.

Kermit.de.frog

I have serious doubts about Kamala Harris and her appeal to moderate/open-to-persuasion Republican voters but at least she has a much better chance than Biden did at laying some hits on Trump.

I still think Trump is in the ascendancy in the election for now. She has to hit the ground running.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412852#Comment_122412852

I still think Trump is in the ascendancy in the election for now. She has to hit the ground running.

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2024/kamala-harris-rakes-in-50m-in-grassroots-donations-less-than-24-hours-after-announcing-candidacy/

https://www.mediaite.com/news/team-kamala-harris-drops-massive-slate-of-endorsements-hours-after-biden-nod/

She has.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412850#Comment_122412850

The abortion situation in Texas is indeed abysmal, but that happened in the Biden administration. As I said, my life is more controlled by states, not the federal government. If you want to blame Trump for getting the judges in place who overturned Roe, then you must also blame the Senate which confirmed them. Or Congress for not passing some form of protective legislation for decades.

In any case, the underlying issue is far more than just “Trump”

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412871#Comment_122412871

that’s not a reason to not care about the election, presidency/leader of given party or the party’s political mandate.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412873#Comment_122412873

I agree, it isn’t.

But my point isn’t “don’t care”, but “ease off the hyperbole”. Unless nukes start flying, a Trump presidency isn’t going to be world-ending. Negative, perhaps, but not terminal. And to reduce the negative, there is still Congress.

yourdeadwright

I wonder why didn't Biden step aside & make Harris Pres now,
Surely it would give her the upper hand on Donald ?

Oscar_Madison

On a more lighter note, I see a summary headline note of Project 2025 that states one of its objectives is to outlaw porn?
That can’t possibly go down well with young Americans can it?

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412879#Comment_122412879

I think that's a very naive and blinkered view, given the clearly stated goals for a 2nd Trump administration. Putting aside the possibility that there might not be another fair election if he wins, the dismantling of the Federal Administrative state would be devastating. A corrupt Supreme Court giving top cover to an out of control Executive, with probably 1 House of Congress to boot.

How well will society function without the IRS, the FDA, the Departments of Justice, Education, Energy et al, let alone the EPA.

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412879#Comment_122412879

Nukes don’t need to fly for US republic to be replaced by a monarchy with Trump family dynasty

Trump already tried once

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412787#Comment_122412787

Sure. Without revealing too much, I have a friend with a teenage trans son. His medical treatment may stop as Trump and Vanc have said no medical treatment for teenage trans individuals.

I have another friend who works in an administration role. One that Project 2025 want to replace with Trump sycophants.

That's two specific cases. I have other friends that could get pregnant and not being able to choose to abort if they had to make that choice as JD Vance has said that he wants a "national standard" on abortion.

Lastly, I have one set of gay friends that are married to each other. They have told me that they're scared that their relationship is no longer guaranteed with the current Christian majority make up of the supreme court, and if Trump gets in again, there's a much higher chance that gay marriage may be banned (or more likely, "left up to states to decide"). They live in a pretty rural state so chances would be high that it would be banned there.

So yeah, I hear you about republican presidents affecting businesses more. However, Trump is not your typical president, and Project 2025 is a terrifying read as a manual to make America a fundamental Christian Nation.

highpitcheric

"The most traditional thing to do would be to balance the ticket with a White male elected official from a key swing state,” Brownstein said, adding that the list would include Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro, Arizona Sen. Mark Kelly and North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper.

Alternatively, Harris could pick Whitmer as her running mate “to create a high risk, potentially high reward all-female ticket, which would certainly generate a lot of excitement,” Brownstein said.

- Ron Brownstein, CNNs senior political analyst.

https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/joe-biden-election-drop-out-07-22-24/index.html

AbusesToilets

I think Kelly or Cooper would be the likely options. Whitmer would be ideal, as a presidential candidate, think she would be wasted as VP. Shapiro is very new and has some sex related scandals to boot iirc.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412995#Comment_122412995

Shapiro has sex related scandals?

So he'll appeal to the swing voters that might vote for Trump then :)

Silentcorner

The Democrats have to be careful, the VP pick cannot outshine the Presidential candidate. They also need to Swing States, I don't think a California politician is going to cut it, they also need the black male vote, Harris will more than likely alienate even more black men than Biden did…is there any record that she is a good campaigner, because she'll have to run an impeccable campaign because of the time they've lost…she's a lot of States to get to and ad spends on tv don't move the dial so much anymore!!!! That's before we get into her record as a prosecuter and the manner with which she finds herself as the candidate…

We are living in extraordinary times, The Democratrs have just been forced into a hail mary!!!

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413012#Comment_122413012

https://www.pennlive.com/politics/2023/10/pa-gov-josh-shapiro-pays-295000-to-settle-sexual-harassment-claim-against-former-top-aide.html

Not the worst certainly, but why take on the risk?

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413023#Comment_122413023

Thats a difficult assignment a VP that wont outshine Harris ;-)

Overheal

Mark Kelly seems the right choice to me, and him debating Vance is television i would pay to see: snot nosed ex marine vs. decorated Navy air combat and space pilot.

Vance was a war correspondent and public relations officer, a pencil pusher who only on a few occasions embedded with a unit, and no apparent combat experience. Mark Kelly flew 39 combat missions in desert storm. Among other decorations Kelly earned the Defense Superior Service Medal, Legion of Merit, two Distinguished Flying Crosses. And he’s flown the space shuttle. He’d probably sh*t Vance for breakfast.

Oscar_Madison

Harris looked great on TV this evening - very early days I know but if she fights an election the way she grills people in an enquiry this is gonna be a great battle

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412969#Comment_122412969

White men need to take a back seat, they have ruined everything for long enough already, in fact men in general need to be sidelined. An all female ticket would be great

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413181#Comment_122413181

Only issue with Kelly is that he does nothing particularly to engage with the eastern swing states. His anti-gun stance could also alienate a lot of gun owning moderates.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412964#Comment_122412964

And how will Trump and Vance enforce this lack of medical treatment? Some form of executive order? Or will the appropriate people have to also win the congressional elections? And how will that apply to states like California which protect gender affirming care, much as they protect marijuana, contrary to congress's position on the matter? I get the talking points, but the practical realities of actually enforcing things are… difficult. Biden certainly had a number of opinions on things he wanted to get done, varying from student debt cancellation to gun control. Trump didn't exactly get his full wall built either, since Congress didn't give him the funds. He tried to ban bump stocks, only to discover that congress needs to do it. Etc.

As for folks in the executive agencies, well, that's typical enough. Every change of administration comes with a change in leadership. And, unfortunately enough, in policy. Witness the FCC's position on net neutrality flip-flopping depending on who got placed there by Bush/Obama/Trump/Biden.

And, yes, if 'it's up to states to decide', then it seems to me that the relevant operation is the state election. Trump can be as Presidential and dictatorial as he likes on the matter, that has little effect in California.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412942#Comment_122412942

Oh, I'm sure that society wouldn't function as well without those departments functioning correctly, but (a) I don't think the President has the ability to unilaterally abolish the organisation without Congressional support, so come four years down the line, any changes can be reversed, (b) I can't imagine any changes would have effect on day 1 so damage is even more limited, and (c ) some of those departments don't affect people much on a daily basis anyway. I mean, Dept of Education was established in 1980, it's not as if the country didn't run before then. My kid's curriculum is administered and run by the State, not DoEd. Project 2025 still envisions retaining the DoJ and federal taxes (though I'm not sure which organisation they plan on administering the taxes). I'll lay money the power will still be on in my house if DoEn is shut down. And so on.

Basically for the Parade of Horribles to come to pass, there has to be such a monumental balls-up by Democrats and moderate Republicans that they set the conditions for far-right control at multiple echelons of the government system over a period of time, from Senate down through city council. It's not a 'Trump-only' concern. And if the Democrats do balls it up to that extent, I guess the US gets what the people want, which would evidently be not what the Democrats want.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413199#Comment_122413199

idk as a NASA pilot he could maybe even put Florida in play.

Oscar_Madison

Yes yes I know it’s the Daily Mail -but it’s a “good” read from the perspective that it outlines the main controversies Harris has been involved in through the years and the key criticisms that you’re likely to hear repeated by republicans over the coming months

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13659413/kamala-harris-biden-trump-nomination.html

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413224#Comment_122413224

the age gap was less of a taboo back then. Remember when Tom Hanks starred in Big (and portrayed a child having sex with an adult woman)? Or when Trump flew with Jeffrey Epstein and allegedly slept with an adolescent girl? Yikes. The late 80s/early 90s were a wild time for everyone it seems. Harris having a relationship with an older man at age 29 seems the least of it. This may not turn out how MAGA hopes this angle will.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413217#Comment_122413217

Before I get into this, have you read much of Project 2025? Not about it, but the actual 922 page document?

It's available to read here:

https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413237#Comment_122413237

Plenty of other “gaffs” outlined in the article - hopefully she’ll get her speeches tightened up- she’s an awful one for the mixed metaphors or “word salad” sort of gaffes- needs to watch that in a live TV debate if going ahead