Banned from immigration thread.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106074#Comment_122106074

They can be implicitly both … if you phrase it as people who say X about Y are scumbags… when posters on the thread have said it. They don't name names to try to avoid "don't attack the poster" infraction, but it is obvious what they are doing.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106085#Comment_122106085

That's not on tbh.

If I say 'racists are scumbags' in one of those threads then I'd imagine most reasoned folks would have no problem with that.

If I say 'people who wave Irish flags are scumbags' immediately after a post where you just said 'I wave an Irish flag' well then that's a bit different alright.

There's a very simple solution to that, moderation. Can we not just get more moderators on board?

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106062#Comment_122106062

Wow, you must be very easy offened. Thanks be to God you have never been called a racist nazi like some many times I have heard it, perhaps people so easily offened shouldn't be bothering with issues that are so volatile. Hopefully this doesn't come across as a hateful or angry post I'm only trying to see why there's so much difference in what people with different points of view are allowed to post.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102222#Comment_122102222

With respect Beasty - my one and only report was recently about a certain poster that consistently posts in what I & many others consider 'bad faith', baiting, trolling. I know from messages from many other posters that they consider this particular poster to be partic dislikeable. And have fallen foul of them.

Your response? "I can see a single report by yourself about this poster. That does not seem to support your case here. Report stuff and it will be looked at and acted as/if we see fit"

Which is just simply not credible. And I'm quite sure anyone who looks at threads in CA knows exactly who I refer to.

So no, I don't trust the system frankly.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106099#Comment_122106099

More moderators yes - but as alluded to above, there doesn't seem to be a queue of CA mod candidates.

I don't think moderators need to follow every thread and every post.

Even if the current moderators could follow sample threads of different types (one of immigration, one of foreign affairs, one woke etc) I think they would get a sense of posters engaging in such low level context based infractions, a pattern to posts.

But capacity is the limit.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106099#Comment_122106099

Should you be calling anyone scumbags? Why is it OK to label a racist as a scumbag?

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106100#Comment_122106100

Again, you're really not getting this, it's got nothing to do with anyone being 'offended'.

Boards.ie has a rule where posters are meant to show each other some courtesy. It's a site for reasoned debate, not a soapbox to shout your opinions from, everyone else be damned.

If you come in fists swinging, calling everyone's posts 'BS' if they disagree with you and so on, then that's just not what the site is for and I'd suggest you maybe stick to Facebook.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106129#Comment_122106129

BS was called on your summising and totally unfounded statement about certain posters with different pov to you. Perhaps face book would suit you alot better than me. Also I'm sorry if I come across angry, I'm not very good at passive aggressive like some.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106117#Comment_122106117

They certainly don't need to follow every thread alright but perhaps keep their finger on the pulse of the more contentious ones?

I've no idea how many CA moderators they are BTW, is it just Beasty and Shield? That's entirely unsustainable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106124#Comment_122106124

Seems like a weird hill to want to die on tbh.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106099#Comment_122106099

Where do you get them from? Since the rework, we've lost a lot of very good, valued contributors. In exchange, the place seems to have been taken over by a lot of angry people, often reregs, pushing a narrative and getting abusive when challenged.

The pool is smaller and you ideally need people who can keep a clear head while also being interested in the topic at hand.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106155#Comment_122106155

Your BS post wasn't in reference to me, I am not Emmetspiceland. More than one person disagrees with you.

dmakc

Is page 1 offline for anyone else in that thread?

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106175#Comment_122106175

ancapailldorcha for CA mod 😁

bucketybuck

You lads are so concerned about people posting the wrong opinions that you had to invent a rule about anecdotes just so that you had a tool to action them with.

Like, its bizarre. You banned ancedotes on an internet message board. When that was proposed did none of you stop and think that perhaps this was a bit mad…

Or let me guess, one high profile figure proposed it and everybody else kept quiet. No?

You banned ancedotes and now are discussing the ramifications as if the original decision isn't full of holes. Its rather pathetic.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106186#Comment_122106186

Page 1 on threads offline on a lot of long running threads, has been flagged as a bug.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106175#Comment_122106175

The process for getting new moderators has been explained before and frankly you could get into fort knox quicker.

No point complaining about lack of mods if nothing is ever done about it.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106213#Comment_122106213

I wasn't complaining about a lack of mods. I was just point out the issue with recruiting new ones.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106189#Comment_122106189

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105614#Comment_122105614

What thread are those examples from?

The "no anecdote" rule has only been stipulated in a couple of threads. The reasoning was explained at the time that thread rule was applied and also in the respective OPs. Only posts after the respective warnings will have been actioned (assuming reported)

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106243#Comment_122106243

They were in immigration threads, their has been a few so I don't know which posts were in which thread.

I don't know why you don't update the charter to state no anecdotes in immigration threads.

It must be confusing for a new user who reads the charter and then gets a warning or ban.

Beasty

Only the closed general immigration and open refugee threads have such a rule.

The Sweden thread (which seems relevant to some of your examples) does not currently have a no anecdote rule.

And generally the whole point about these bans on anecdotes is they represent claims that are by definition unverifiable. Hence posters could post any outlandish claim and say they heard it in the pub or saw it themself and others could not see anything else supporting the claim. It became a favoured tactic of certain trolls in these two threads in particular. Hence we asked people to stick to verifiable facts in two particularly contentious threads (in the case of the current refugee thread the warning was posted early in the thread precisely because anecdotes had been the primary cause of the closure of an earlier refugee thread - you can have discussion with no anecdotes. If we allow anecdotes the thread will pretty much inevitably be closed)

Another point I would add is we get complaints when a thread covering such topics is closed. However there will almost inevitably be future incidents resulting in new threads covering pretty much the same types of discussion. All those threadbanned from the earlier thread then essentially get a fresh start (although if they do the same sorts of things in the new thread as they did to get a threadban applied in an earlier one they may not get much leeway). However if someone tries starting a thread covering the same sort of thing that a recently closed one discussed it is likely to get closed as well. As I have indicated they all tend to end up going over the same ground.

Of course posters can always ask for threadbans to be lifted, as is evidenced in some of OPs where they have been documented.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106352#Comment_122106352

Is there a “warning in OP” in the thread title? Any new users should be reading the OP before they post in a thread so a warning there would be helpful.

It does seem that a fair number of “new users” are well up on navigating the site, it’s very possible they aren’t as new to the site as their “join date” might suggest.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122104345#Comment_122104345

Yes, that's precisely what I want - an open and free discussion forum where everything (that is legal) goes.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106456#Comment_122106456

Your last paragraph is another great example of what new users face when they don't have the right opinions.

Another tactic of the handful of posters who try to shut down people's opinions.

Thanks for that, I never thought of mentioning it.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106483#Comment_122106483

So is an obvious rereg not an obvious rereg if he has right wing opinions?

Furze99

Well you can't even view Page 1 on these threads now to see warnings and list of thread bans.

Last time I looked at the 'Refugee' thread, there was only one poster with ban lifted………….

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106695#Comment_122106695

If someone thinks a poster is a rereg then they should mention it to a mod.

I see regularly new users bring called reregs by the handful of posters everyone knows.

The same posters don't understand what right wing opinions is, anything that is critical of immigration is far right, based on recent polling over 80% of the country are far right by their standards.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106725#Comment_122106725

Oh there's plenty with threadbans lifted, some even had to be banned again!

Beasty

Re registering is not sanctionable per se, but re registering to evade a site or forum bannis site-bannable, as is sock puppeting with 2 or more accounts.

If someone closes an account they can open another subject to those rules.

Beasty

A general point about this right/left wing stuff

More posts/posters are sanctioned for being uncivil rather than breaching specific thread rules. And the people who tend towards the uncivil side of things are typically those who are unhappy with the status quo. Nothing to do with right or left leanings, much more to do with people thinking they can be more forceful to encourage change. And yes there are plenty of exceptions. However my own experiences when modding many contentious threads (including in the Covid threads at the height of the pandemic) is it is those who do not like what is going on are the ones more likely to stir things/push their points in a more aggressive manner. And with something like immigration you are more likely to find people with "right leaning" tendencies to be pushing for change

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106444#Comment_122106444

Ok, let's test this fair and benevolent approach you've described in your last two paragraphs:

I'm currently banned from the "Green Party ruining Ireland" thread precisely for calling out the utter lies, false figures, prevarication, link dumping, spamming, and endless 'innocently confused' questions posted by a now departed poster called D'acor whom I'm sure everyone here remembers and who doubtless is here under a different username.

I might add, - I'm one of a long, long list of his victims.

That was June 2023.

The same thread is still running, and I've been locked out of it since then despite that poster being banned for his fraudulent dishonest posting there.

There hasn't been a thread renewal nor any opportunity for those of us who's experience of boards he damaged to get back to serious discussion of a very important topic in OUR country.

Is this a fair or decent approach?

Or am I guilty of posting "an anecdote"