Tetraploid vs Diploid

limo_100

Hi Just wondering what are peoples preference in grass seed I am doing some seeding and and it will be in a 5acre and will be used for a one or two cut and graze system but will mostly be a one cut system with grazing? usually cut around the end of may.

My understanding is high diploid better cover and maybe not as palatable as tetraploid.

And tetraploid is less dense cover and more palatable but would but would that carry over for silage and be more palatable?

Any one with seed recommendations?

Bangoverthebar

I used dlf 4n grazer last yr on 18 acres. Hybrid tetraploid. Get the benefits of both.

Im delighted with it.

I also did 22 acres with dlf hybrid silage. Its a festolium grass, i zerograzed it in march, im mowing today for 1st cut. Grass is 3 inches over my knee. A savage crop of grass, but hard on nutrients.

limo_100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108109#Comment_122108109

Jesus that's serious going in fairness seems like they will pay for themselves in no time. The 4N would probably suit my job a bit better as it is very hard to get early cuts up in Cavan until last week of may so tend to need late heading as apposed to intermediate grasses as the conditions don't generally allow early cuts.

Do you find the 4n is covered on the ground well? as they say tetraploid doesn't cover the ground aswel? Im sure that would also make nice silage also last week of may

GrasstoMilk

cross reference the varieties off the teagasc ppi and they’re down near the bottom. Theyre still good varieties but there are better available

we’re reseeding a good bit of ground this year and after looking at all the mixes available from each company I decided to go with my own mix. All mixes I looked at from the well known companies had 1-2 really good varieties and the rest of the bag was mediocre imo

I got a mix of aberspey, galgorm and aberclyde +redclover + white clover made up for me

Reseeding if done right is a ten year job, you may aswell put the best varieties available into the ground

RobinBanks

@GrasstoMilk how do you go about getting your own mix? as you say, most merchants seem to mix the good with the bad and I am very interested in making my own mix for a parcel of land that is only used for silage as its not setup for grazing.

Bangoverthebar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108887#Comment_122108887

Yes lovely thick swards with 4n grazer. Im happy with it. I used agritech seed the year before on a reseed. Happy with the sward thickness etc but the grass doesnt grow like new grass. I felt i get no bang for my buck.

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122110833#Comment_122110833

Just go yo places like mcguiness seeds in slane or a merchant like drummonds and they will make up whatever mix you want.

RobinBanks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114556#Comment_122114556

Would you mind sharing a pic of the DLF hybrid grass before its cut. Is it a tall erect crop or low and thick. I found the Agritech 4A to be very dense but not awfully tall. Didn't wilt as good as some other fields for silage.

RobinBanks

Have bought from Mcguinness a few times. They have a good selection of seeds but dont have some that i am interested in. Was wondering if there were other merchants similar to them. I will take a look at Drummonds.

Bangoverthebar

Its waist high, tall and erect. The leaves grow straight up. Im baling it so expect 12 ish bales an acre plus

Say my name

Just thinking about the discussion on grass seeds.

There's a commercial wood vinegar out now sold as liquid biochar. It's from Graeme Sait's company available in Ireland. It can be used as a seed coating for seeds. It's supposed to really liven up the vigor of grass and cereals. Just spray it on the seed and let dry and then use seed. I've no affiliation to any of this.

A seed company has used it on cereal seed in Ireland as a trial for winter corn in their plots and I believe they are pleasantly surprised at how it's doing.

This has been in the asian books on natural farming for years using wood vinegar on seeds.

limo_100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114556#Comment_122114556

So you would put the 4N way ahead of the 4A ? are you happy with the 4a or a bit disappointed?

I was looking at the the diamond hi digestibility or hi density i would probably go with the digestibility instead due to more tetraploids in it. I would like more clover though than 0.75Kg maybe up to 2kg.

If I was to go with the agritech they have a 4AN with 2kg of clover

limo_100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114914#Comment_122114914

How long is your 4A sward in? I was looking on DLF is the hybrid grass a silage mix?

Bangoverthebar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122120009#Comment_122120009

I would put 4n over the 4a by a considerable margin. Im back into a paddock tonight 14 days after grazing it and average growth only middling. Cows love the grass.

Bangoverthebar

4a on its 3rd year. The hybrid grass is a silage mix. It was baled tonight, 14.3 bales per acre. I cut it for silage and zero graze it. Not grazed it yet.

If you research festolium grasses they have 3 maybe 4 times the root structure of ryegrass. So thrive in wet or drought conditions.

Im in an area prone to drought so i used the hybrid mix incase i needed to buffer cows with zero grazed grass in a drought. It has the added benefit of up to 25% more growth than ryegrass. 18t/dm/ha can be expected and i read a uk trial of a 35 day multi cut silage system that grew 22t/dm/ha over 6 cuts.

Quality of festolium grass can be marginally lower than prg, but the tetraploid in the dlf mix allows for that. My first cut last year, yielded 12 bales per acre @ 82%dmd.

limo_100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122122937#Comment_122122937

Do you expect the 4n will last for many years before needing to be redone as for beef I would need longer lays that dairy farmers. Also have you made any silage out of 4n yet ? how did it turn out? and finally was the sward abit open being 100% tetraploid?

That hybrid grass seems like serious stuff would make a great Pit if you had enough of it

RobinBanks

Interesting discussion about the DLF 4N grass. Looking at the varieties in the mix i probably wouldnt select it based on the PPI table. Most of the varieties are down low on this list yet it sounds like you are seeing great returns. Maybe take the PPI list with a pinch of salt?

limo_100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122131647#Comment_122131647

I suppose the PPI is done on farm with perfect index's and I'm sure like all data it can be minipulated to say what you want.

RobinBanks

Anyone here use either of these mixes? Looking for opinions on the varieties. I am reseeding some land that i want to use for 3 cuts of silage and grazing some store lambs in winter. No yard or water on land so i don't bother putting cattle there for the summer.

limo_100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147962#Comment_122147962

both look like great mixes I always thought grazings mixes make the best silage but then we usually do one cut so maybe that's the reason?

Would you not consider a red clover sward instead ud get ur 3cuts with that no problem and would cost you less in fertiliser but Maybe it would not yield the same over the 3 cuts?

RobinBanks

I had considered the red clover alright and was very close to ordering the tipperary red clover mix. To your point I wasn't sure about the yield and that is probably why I am leaning towards the regular mix. Would be really interested to read opinions on the red clover mix

limo_100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122154471#Comment_122154471

was leaning towards it aswell for a field I'm doing up but decided to leave it and put 4n into it field was water logged all my life so want to see if it would be dry enough and also get a few years to build up the indexs. Il just cut it once and graze.

Does anyone know is the protein aid scheme going to be open this year?