Garden Room 25m2 - Rental Query

moneymaid

Building a garden room 25m2 in my garden. This will essentially be a self contained unit with kitchen, bathroom and living area with heating etc. It will have it's own entrance via my side garden.

Building is below requirements for planning for use as a garden room. (the bedroom etc are for future proofing the room in case one of my kids wants to move in to save for a mortgage etc)

Is there anyway to generate an income from this above board? Can it be used for Airbnb the odd time?

Private Joker

you will need planning for this.

Eclectic Econometrics

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112068#Comment_122112068

Why does he need planning? It is the use not the size, right?

moneymaid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112068#Comment_122112068

Thanks for your reply.

Just to clarify, do you mean for using the garden room for renting out?

KaneToad

Building a detached, habitable dwelling in your garden will require planning.

You can (usually) build non habitable structures, without planning, provided they fulfill certain criteria - size etc...

moneymaid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112271#Comment_122112271

That's what I'm technically doing, building a non habitable structure that's actually fully habitable. At the moment I don't need planning for the rooms construction.

What I'm wondering is, can it be used for Airbnb the odd time?

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112287#Comment_122112287

"non habitable structure that's actually fully habitable"

So it's a habitable structure, which means you need planning.

Regardless, you'll have to register with your local authority if you want to rent out the room.

Why don't you do some research: https://www.hostaway.com/blog/airbnb-rules-in-ireland/#:~:text=General%20Regulations%20and%20Permissions,property%20or%20just%20a%20room.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112229#Comment_122112229

It's the fact it's a self contained living unit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112236#Comment_122112236

You need planning to build it.

Size might be below the limit for planning. But it building a bedroom for the the kids in "future" requires planning now.

If it was just a living room working area, then maybe you could say it's a home office now. But in that case as soon as you fit a bed to rent it out it needs planning.

moneymaid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112321#Comment_122112321

So, if I don't put a bed in it and just have a pool table, darts board etc in it I don't need planning now? I've been informed by the company fitting it and an architect friend that it does not need planning.

The kitchen area will be installed, as will the shower room when it's built but just not actually used.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112363#Comment_122112363

Best bet is to check with your local authority. It varys from one to the next sometimes.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112528#Comment_122112528

It doesn't vary. It's statutory law, applies nationally.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112363#Comment_122112363

If it was just for a pool table ie a games room, then it would not need planning. But that's not what it is for, so it needs planning.

The company fitting it are trying to sell you something, they've no interest be given you honest advice. The website of many of those companies blatantly lie about planning requirements.
You architect friend say it doesn't need planning despite it has a bedroom? I'd be wary about taking any advice from him in future. As he got something very basic, very wrong.

Lumen

The best bet for future proofing is to run plumbing, electrics and broadband. Those are all useful for non-habitable use, e.g. as a hobby space or home office, and more difficult to retrofit.

Putting in a full kitchen, shower and bedroom for some speculative future use (which will require planning) is both a waste of money and asking for trouble. If you suddenly find yourself needing to sell due to unexpected change of circumstances the property will be more valuable without a non-compliant structure (because solicitors and banks don't like them), but more valuable with a compliant/exempted structure with potential for conversion (subject to PP, or a change in the law, or whatever).

SharkMX

Lots of them around us being lived and being used for Airbnb.

They dont have planning but probably are supposed to. But nothing will ever come of the lack of planning anyway.

Look at the mansion in Meath that dont have planning. I dont think anything is going to happen to you for building a 25spm garden room that you can live in or rent.

I can tell you also that I have seen a few houses with these in the garden get sold in the last few years. They never caused an issue at all. One of them was a good friend buying a house with a garden room in it. Plumbing, electrics etc. It had been rented out before he bought the house.

Solicitor flagged it and told friend what the law was and did it bother him. He said no, i wont use it to live in (he has a mate living in it now). Solicitor said fine. Bank valuer didnt even mention it. Couldnt tell you how the other 2 I know went because i didnt know the buyers or the sellers, but they are still in the gardens.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122115514#Comment_122115514

That 600 sq.m Mansion in Meath? Whose owners have sank 100s of thousands into legal fees, and lost. It's till standing sure, but they have sank a lot of money, to house worth close to zero to show for it. Not one to aim for.

Bank may ask for a cert of compliance with planning, they may not. A non-compliant garden room will interfere with that. You're friends solicitor should have asked for one. Discount

shimadzu

It wont be compliant with planning requirements with your intended use and most likely not compliant with building regulations either.

You face two major issues:

1. Somebody complains to the council and you are forced to remove the structure. Complaints will likely come from a disgruntled neighbor or AirBnb guest. You will be out the cost of building the structure, removing it and any legal fees.
2. Somebody is injured while staying in the garden room, insurance most likely wont cover the new structure unless it is built to code and has planning permission.

A better use of the money you will spend on this garden structure is to invest it and help your children with a deposit in the future when the time comes round.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116345#Comment_122116345

Solicitor asked if they wanted to ask for one. Spelled out the pros and cons. The answer was no. Apparently its a very common occurrence.

I doubt that crowd in Meath have spent much at all. They just pay a few hundred now and then to put an appeal together. How many years is that now they've been living in it? How many more? No sign of it getting knocked. If they ever did get an order to knock it they will just sit in it for another couple of decades. Bargain.

SharkMX

Heres a whole road of illegal structures that have people living in them. I know because i stayed in one of them through Airbnb and it turned out someone i went to school with owned one next door and told me all about it. Complaints sent in about them all the time. They've been there decades and they wont be going anytime in the next few decades either.

Ive seen lots and lots of this type of building and cabins in gardens all over the place.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.5271266,-6.0869582,3a,75y,350.29h,80.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMkKvGKsMYT8DxJdz-AK7iw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058350878/garden-room-25m2-rental-query

Yeah it could be used fof air bnb or other types of short term rent. Best of luck with it. They are going up everwhere yet i see no planning notices. You'll be fine.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112287#Comment_122112287

No.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122120184#Comment_122120184

There will be, as always, plenty of people to tell you what "might" happen. But that actually never does and wont happen.

Ive a friend who when i said i was having a party in my garden listed out a hundred things that "might" happen that i need to be insured against because thats the way he thinks. We had the party as thousands of people do and nothing happened.

Some people just cant separate reality from rules.

All you have to do is walk down any road and look in the gardens. Or just look at the amount of "garden rooms" companies who are somehow staying in business if they arent selling them.

Gusser09

How many of these log cabins / garden rooms have been removed? How many people have been served notices?

BorneTobyWilde

What about converting a original block build shed that is separated from house, into a usable personal space , would that need planning/ .

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122121689#Comment_122121689

That is supposed to have planning but noone cares. Seen that done loads of times too.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122121689#Comment_122121689

Same rules apply.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122121917#Comment_122121917

Ive no idea why you constantly post about this, that and the other having no planning permission. Thats not a response to the question asked. BorneTobeWilde asked if a particular structure required planning permission and yes would be the answer.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122121922#Comment_122121922

Same rules as in, it doesn't need planning to alter the internals of an existing building.

BorneTobyWilde

What about the 40 square meter exemption, is that purely the footprint, or the volume

20/20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122120174#Comment_122120174

Looking at that horrible street and with no street lighting you should understand why we have planning regulations.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122122121#Comment_122122121

You're talking about a detached block built shed? First of all the type of structure or materials used in construction isnt an issue. If its used for domestic purposes incidental to the main house then no planning is required if its under 25 sq. metres and is not used as habitable accommodation. 25 sq metres of open space must also be retained in order to leave it exempt from planning. The full list of conditions attached to that particular exemption can read here - see Class 3.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122122295#Comment_122122295

That exemption is in relation to constructing an extension to a house. As per the link above please see Class 1

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122120174#Comment_122120174

Have you checked the planning status of those buildings you linked to?

I had a look at the online planning portal and there are quite a few applications for holiday / mobile homes. You might be a bit speculative in this instance.

BorneTobyWilde

Not sure why people don't just get planning, seeing at 88% of planning applications are granted, and 40% plus of the remainer were appealed and then granted.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122120160#Comment_122120160

What did the solicitor say the cons of asking for one were? Seems like pretty bad advice to give up leverage like that.

As for the meath house, a few hunderd? LMFAO. You might want to google the case history. It's a lot of that the occasional ABP appeal.
They've been to the high court on more than a few occasions. Paying for solicitors, barristers etc. They've sank a lot. Plus the cost of the house. Currently it's worth zero. The high court has issue an order to demolish, they are clutching at straws at this stage.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122120174#Comment_122120174

Many of those have planning. There are numerous planning and retention applications granted.
Don't believe everything you hear when gossiping with neighbours.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122120197#Comment_122120197

There's no rules against having a party.

Garden rooms for use by the house are permitted. As are habitable spaces, with planning. Most of these rooms build are compliant. That's how the companies stay in business. Pretty simple.

SharkMX

We could be going around all day quoting the "rules". I thin everyone here knows that these habitable "garden rooms" are all over the place without planning and noone actually cares apart from the internet "oh you cant do that" finger waggers. But guess what? People are doing it and being allowed to do it.

If a landlord cant get someone who has wrecked their house and paid no rent out if the person refuses to cooperate, then the chances of getting someone to knock down their 25sqm "garden room" are slim to none. And the suppliers are going from strength to strength. Some are even offering them with solar panels now too.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122121479#Comment_122121479

FOI to your local Planning Enforcement Section would answer that.

You could also ask the number of complaints that related to habitable structures without planning as many get removed before enforcement is served.

muffler

" being allowed to do it"

Seriously? I think you just lost whatever little bit of credibility you had with that comment.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122121689#Comment_122121689

A shed, garden room, home office etc are all the sam class. No planning required to convert an existing original shed to use as a games room, home office or storage IMO.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122122020#Comment_122122020

I think we all know what the OP is asking. Its not like its not clear or anything.

SharkMX

Dont get me wrong. Im all for planning regulations and i think they should be tighter in fact.

But all I am doing is pointing out the reality. The rules just arent enforced, and they are not interested in enforcing them. Thats why these places are popping up everywhere. And people are coming on quoting the rules like they actually make a difference to what people can do with these things.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122122833#Comment_122122833

So if you checked them then point them all out and link to the planning for each one then?

Im sure the odd one has planning but most of them certainly do not.

Or are you just wagging the finger again?

Next you'll be telling us you checked the planning for all the "garden rooms" people are living in all over the place and they have planning too.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128711#Comment_122128711

Lol! You're the guy who made the accusation so you post up links to prove that they don't have permission.

SuperBowserWorld

So, what happens with property tax. Are they not separate properties? Will revenue look for a chunk of tax and fines down the line? Still be cheaper than renting elsewhere.

BorneTobyWilde

What about changing a shed pitch roof to a flat roof to increase internal volume, but not changing the outside overall height.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129171#Comment_122129171

For it to be exempt a flat roof cannot exceed 3 metres in height. A pitched roof can go up to 4 metres high while retaining the exemption.

Padre_Pio

All this structural info is available online and it's simple to read.

All the planning info is online.

All the planning applications are online.

If people did an iota of research then we'd save ourselves the pointless back and forth.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129367#Comment_122129367

Ah well I done that to a block shed 11 years ago, not with the intention of trying to avoid rules, it was needing a new roof, so decided to build walls up higher, and create a flat foot, as to have more volume. I never heard anything about it being rule breaking.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128757#Comment_122128757

I knew thats what you would say but you are the one who said you already checked the planning :) You didnt check it at all did you.

blackbox

You might be able to let it out as an office or artists studio or for people to use for games as long as they don't stay overnight.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128691#Comment_122128691

Yes, the OP wants to erect a non habitable garden room that is fully habiitable, and can be rented out on airbnb.

@Padre_Pio reply in post 7 answers the question asked.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132108#Comment_122132108

What would you estimate the chances of repercussions if they didnt get planning or register it?

I would say zero chance of repercussions.

Much like if before 2015 you committed the crime of Blasphemy. Nothing would happen to you.