Do men find it difficult to talk about their feelings?

Ekerot

Is there a reason for it?

Looking back on it now my parents were always to me about talking about my feelings when I was a child, but as I got around to secondary school years I could feel them retracting away from me when it came to emotions. Crying or anything like that became a no go as I got out of the cute years. I think that might've just been their expectation of me to act like a stoical man.

Now as an adult crying just makes me feel weak and pitiful. I can't even remember the last time I cried now, talking about my feelings now just makes me feel very "odd."

Are the Irish a stoic race underneath all the supposed craic and laughter we seem to possess? I think that might be the case really.

ruth...less

I think most people, not just men aren't really in touch with their feelings.

If I cried in school in secondary it wouldnt have gone down well either.

I don't know why men don't tend to cry much but I don't think it stems from being told they're not allowed to cry in childhood because most women would have experienced similar ie ah youre a big girl now don't be crying.

I often get times where I need a good cry like release or Ill cry at something overwhelming maybe sad or even happy..I'm a woman… i don't know maybe it's hormones.

Pauliedragon

It's definately getting better I think. I went through some tough times in my teens (90's). My folks knew something wasn't right but didn't know how to deal with it but my sister did too and that was much easier it seems. Now in my 40's I'm fine but if was going through anything emotional I have every confidence I could speak to my close friends with no issue. There is still that stigma in some circles though. The suicide rate amongst men still dwarfs that as opposed to women.

Parthalán Ó Cusantín

It might be a need to stay stable, strong mentally, masculine, in some cases of course. In others it might be 'programmed' to someone in childhood, or giving a feeling of shame because of opening too much around people, thinking crying is a sign of weakness. It may be rooted in primal instincts but I'm not a specialist.

I personally would cry only around people close to me and if the cause is actually important, for example death of a family member (pets included, no matter what), life fully falling apart, or existencial problems; and even in that cases I would not do that around everybody from that circle of persons, only some. What is kind of funny in its irrationality, I've had a problem (when I was leaving childhood part of my life) with crying in presence of my parents, who are and were nice, caring and understanding to me.

taxAHcruel

Crying openly in men seems to me to be getting a little more common in places like the Podcast World. Where otherwise hyper masculine men are happy to openly break down in tears. I've seen Joe Rogan crying on ever topic from his pets to the death of his friends like Anthony Bourdain to the story of a guy who has been helping black kids in poverty areas. Or breaking down in the MMA Octagon while interviewing the winner in one of the women's fights.

Jokko Willink openly wiping away tears talking about team brotherhood and loyalty and even some of the letters his kids books cause kids to send him or when his daughter got her Jujitsu belt. And it's also now gotten to the point where a guest NOT crying on the Diary of a CEO podcast is more remarkable because the host has this absolutely uncanny ability to get his guests to break. I also remember Sam Harris in his Ted Talk having to literally stop and choke back his tears for a noticeable few seconds before he could go on.

In my own life though - it often seems to help to be the first one to show that openness or vulnerability or emotion. Quite a few of my friends talk to me about their issues with relationships, parenting, self doubt, existential angst, self esteem, hopes for life, diet, masculinity, sexuality and more. In my experience they are happy to talk about and show their feelings.

But this started mostly because I did it first myself. Especially in areas where they might have been under the impression I was totally confident or competent. They might be taken aback at first thinking "Wait YOU struggle with THAT?" and maybe not even believe it at first. But then the fact you were open about it and showed vulnerability and doubt means now they feel they can too.

So when big names in podcasting or other areas are also showing their vulnerability in a way that's congruent with them getting after it and being men - that the two are not mutually exclusive and you can be a "real man" (whatever the hell that even means - no one has ever been able to tell me) while still having your feelings and vulnerabilities - I think it can only be a good thing.

Ekerot

Deep down though I don't think I'd really care to air my problems out towards anyone Tax - I'm not sure why, it just makes me feel incredibly weak honestly. I remember once going to see a therapist and talking about how I felt, going over my same troubles again and again, just made me feel a lot worse.

Do I really want to hear their innermost thoughts either? Not really to be truthful.

taxAHcruel

I see three different things interesting in your response so I will explore each seperately.

Deep down though I don't think I'd really care to air my problems out towards anyone Tax - I'm not sure why, it just makes me feel incredibly weak honestly.

There is no reason I can think of that you should have to or be expected to if you do not want to.

But in the light of this it becomes curious what the purpose of your thread is. Your thread is about whether men find it difficult to do these things and if there is a reason for that difficulty. But now you say you do not really care to anyway. So what exactly do you see the issue as being? What exactly is your question? Where were you hoping the discussion would go?

If it is not for you - that's absolutely fine. And anyone who tells you otherwise is simply wrong. If your thread is about how men these days are being told to be more open and to talk and to even cry and you do not want to do that and it bothers you that they expect you to - you will get 100% agreement from me. You do you - not what current society expects you to do solely because of the contents of your underwear.

That said - I think you and I would have a very different concept of what constitutes being "weak". You think things like exploring your thoughts and feelings with others, maybe crying, is "weak"? I certainly do not. And as I have indicated some of the people I would seek to emulate in my life are very open about their feelings too. They are anything but weak.

If however there was something I wanted to do or I was not sure if I wanted to do it or not - but I withdrew from it because it made me feel "odd" or uncomfortable even though I was not sure why - then that would make ME feel "weak". Crumbling before a path I might otherwise walk because my feelings put up some internal wall that I let defeat me would make me feel weak.

A man crying for genuine reasons is the furthest thing from "weak" by my standards. As is a man who turns to another man and says "I am having trouble with this - it's getting me down to be honest - what do you think and what would you do?".

I remember once going to see a therapist and talking about how I felt, going over my same troubles again and again, just made me feel a lot worse.

The first thing that strikes me here is that you are effectively saying that you do have troubles and issues and problems. You do not indicate what age you are but if you are well into adulthood then it sounds like those troubles are as yet unaddressed. Which means the question you are likely asking yourself - or should be at least - is if therapy and being open with friends is not for you - then how do you plan to address those issues. What have you tried. What have you yet to try. Or do you plan the approach of simply bottling it up and getting on with it regardless?

The second thing that strikes me is that you may have unfortunately encountered a bad therapist. If you went "once" and they were going over and over the same troubles again and again then they were simply crap at their job. Because therapy generally does not work that way day to day and many forms of therapy would not do that at all even once. There are many different forms of, and approaches to, therapy. And simply unearthing an issue and hammering on it over and over is not really one of them. In fact many forms of therapy are intensely congnizant of the fact that going over past traumas and issues is to at some level go through them again. So they actively avoid doing that and instead work around it. Much like for example the "knees over toes guy" recognises that certain issues with your knee can not be addressed directly so what you do is work around the knee to every and all supporting muscles and joints and strengthen them instead and so indirectly support and ultimately even heal the knee.

Do I really want to hear their innermost thoughts either? Not really to be truthful.

And again if that is you then there is no reason you should be expected to be anything but you. Again anyone telling you to act a certain way - or not act a certain way - solely because you are male is simply an asshat.

All I can really do to push on what you are saying is to compare it to my own perspectives and standards.

So the first thing that would strike me is that I do not really expect to hear their "Innermost thoughts" either. I think there is a core to all of us that we never share with others or at most one person. But there is an ocean of experience between a person's "innermost" and their superficial skin deep outside. Just like if you have only ever been to the coast of Ireland there is so much you could see of Ireland without ever going to westmeath or offaly. There are swaths of lands between the coast and the centre. Just like there are enourmous depths to people between the surface and the core.

The second thing that would strike me is that if I did not want to go deeper than skin deep with my friends - or have them do so with me - then I would wonder why I wanted them to be my friends at all in the first place. What do either of us get from the relationship if the relationship is entirely superficial and distant? The value of my friendships and relationships is the mutual support, the mutual growth, the mutual exploration and examination of life, and the ability to be strong when life allows me to be strong and to feel safe being vulnerable when life calls on me to be so. And not to be scared of either when the moments arrive.

Perhaps you have different values and goals around friendships and aquaintances. Which is fine too. But like other things it sounds like we are very different you and I in this regard.

Ekerot

That said - I think you and I would have a very different concept of what constitutes being "weak". You think things like exploring your thoughts and feelings with others, maybe crying, is "weak"? I certainly do not. And as I have indicated some of the people I would seek to emulate in my life are very open about their feelings too. They are anything but weak.

If however there was something I wanted to do or I was not sure if I wanted to do it or not - but I withdrew from it because it made me feel "odd" or uncomfortable even though I was not sure why - then that would make ME feel "weak". Crumbling before a path I might otherwise walk because my feelings put up some internal wall that I let defeat me would make me feel weak.

Yes, it does make me feel weak. I've tried numerous times Tax, and to be honest it just makes me feel just uncomfortable opening up to others. So I'd rather just not do it.

The second thing that strikes me is that you may have unfortunately encountered a bad therapist. If you went "once" and they were going over and over the same troubles again and again then they were simply crap at their job. Because therapy generally does not work that way day to day and many forms of therapy would not do that at all even once. There are many different forms of, and approaches to, therapy. And simply unearthing an issue and hammering on it over and over is not really one of them. In fact many forms of therapy are intensely congnizant of the fact that going over past traumas and issues is to at some level go through them again. So they actively avoid doing that and instead work around it. Much like for example the "knees over toes guy" recognises that certain issues with your knee can not be addressed directly so what you do is work around the knee to every and all supporting muscles and joints and strengthen them instead and so indirectly support and ultimately even heal the knee.

It wasn't that I encountered a "Bad Therapist" - I'd went to 3 different therapists who specialized in different forms of therapy. I found it interesting for the first times I went, but there was always a gnawing sense withing me that said "What am I even doing here paying a stranger to talk about how I feel?" "Shouldn't I be saying this to my parents/siblings?" Aren't they natures therapists?" "Why do we as a society even have therapy?"

But then when I see how bad Tax family relations, friendships and dating are in the West, I can see why therapy is needed. Natures therapists aren't there anymore for most people.