Higher Executive Officer 2024

HDonal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227722#Comment_122227722

Absolutely second this!

fritzelly

Anyone hazard a guess when the tests will start?

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226127#Comment_122226127

Unless people have relevant experience outside of the service, giving an example of organisational change/policy change might not be that straight forward for a CO/EO. I know that that question alone has put off a few people from applying.

gestappo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228651#Comment_122228651

You're both crazy 🤣 🤣

aislingm999

Is it possible to apply for HEO competitions if you no longer work in the civil service but used to work in it and worked in it for over 2 years?

shardor18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229755#Comment_122229755

Hi the closing date was yesterday at 3.p.m. but it does state in the circular that you must be serving in a permanent, temporary or acting capacity to be eligible.

JennyZ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229755#Comment_122229755

Hi there was a programme launched yesterday, ARC Assisted Return to Career which will be recruiting at HEO level in HR, Accounting/Finance, ICT streams. It's up on Public Jobs now if that would be of any interest to you. You would need to have a degree and min 3 yrs work in one of those areas.

furrybones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229571#Comment_122229571

A number of people in my Dept were put off applying because of the application form this time round.

EduKate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229571#Comment_122229571

Anecdotal, but I know 3 who didn't apply because of the question. I also know several who simply made sh1t up for it .

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122231217#Comment_122231217

Was this Q5 on the "Building Future Readiness" capability? Or was it Q4 on the "evidence-informed delivery" capability? I struggled to see any difference between these and I believe they are one and the same thing in practice.

lucat

Sorry to go off-topic but does anyone know if there is a thread for the First Sec 2024 on boards? I'm guessing some of us applied to that too so there should be a thread somewhere.

JennyZ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122231317#Comment_122231317

I thought Q4 was evidence informed delivery, 5 buiding future readiness

EduKate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122231317#Comment_122231317

Q5 - specifically on the Strategic Awareness & Change subsection of 'Building Future Readiness'.

Based on reading the capability framework, my take would be that 'Strategic Awareness and Change' is more about developing policy while 'Evidence-informed Delivery' is more about implementation/project management.

Realistically, are COs going to have experience with "developing/implementing policy/strategy, or driving organisational change" or "leading, motivating and developing others"? There's a lot of EOs that wouldn't too.

Mr lebowski

This was my first time to apply and from reading about it beforehand I was worried. When I went to do it I thought it was fairly straightforward thankfully and easier than I had anticipated. My main issue was shortening my answers to hit the word count and trying not to lose the meaning of what I was trying to say. Obliviously though time will tell as I could get cut at the first hurdle.

SheevPalps

I also applied for both, so interested to know if there is a thread for that.

dublindoyle2023

I really think there is a low uptake. Going off people from my Department not applying or put off by the new framework application. The boards seem very quiet also compared to EO boards.

Highlighter75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122255673#Comment_122255673

That would be great. I need every bit of help l can get.

KG88KG

The new framework was an unexpected surprise, but I'm equally surprised that so many would be put off from it. Promotional competitions need to be tough to test all required competencies, and change should be anticipated over time. I don't think they are expecting everyone to have every aspect of it nailed. I think the "potential" for an applicant to develop as a manager is also being considered. If you're an EO in a division that is super EO heavy and don't have many (or any) CO's under your supervision, I'm sure that taking the incentive to gain management tools (OneLearning, self development, etc) will be looked at hopefully!

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122257751#Comment_122257751

While the competitions may need to be tough the disparity between navigating the current internal competition and this new Interdepartmental is quite stark for what is the same position.

eroc79

anyone think the online tests will be released today or is it too early?

MaryKaye79

too early, they have read all forms to shortlist based on application form first. Not everyone who applied will be asked to do the tests Fingers crossed I make it

gestappo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258584#Comment_122258584

They’re not shortlisting just yet, they will only look to ensure eligibility at this stage. Shortlisting will commence after the assessments and before presentation/interview stage.

MaryKaye79

thank you, that’s a relief

Must tell my team our AP told us they were shortlisting based on application form first, he must have got it wrong

fritzelly

I understood it was after the online tests once they have reduced the application pool

And no to testing yet please - too busy

EduKate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122257371#Comment_122257371

Fwiw, PAS has struggled filling HEO vacancies.

The Dublin panel from 2022 was exhausted 12 months after the closing date for the comp. Individual Departments had to run their own internal comps to fill vacancies as a result, often with easier criteria - just an interview, no tests or presentations.

PAS board minutes from September 2023: "The Board noted the concerns around quality caused by the issues around attraction and attrition. It was agreed that it is critical to look at the civil service offering to prospective candidates and to try and widen the candidate pool. The CEO outlined the particular issues in filling HEO vacancies due to the limited internal candidate pool."

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261397#Comment_122261397

Problem with the Civil Service is no promotion unless you apply and go through the process and hope to pass everything. Have a bad day and mess up on something and thats it til the next competition opens which could be 2 years away

Sure everyone knows CO's that would excel as an EO and EO's as HEO's. Acting up should be seen as a stepping stone to promotion if you are good at the job, not pushed back down to your previous level after 6 months or a year. That is kinda demoralising

And this is for a job that in the private sector would be paying much more with added benefits.
They really don't make it easy for natural job progression based on your experience and aptitude for roles.
Even trying to stay in the same department on an open/internal competition promotion when your AP or PO want's to keep you is more likely to not happen.

lucat

Interesting. I've heard they're struggling with finding COs because nobody can afford to live in Dublin on that low salary, but I didn't know the problem is also at management level.

I have noticed recruits since 2021 are less capable than they should be though, at EO, AO and AP grades. I thought I was just unlucky!

lucat

Interesting. I've heard they're struggling with finding COs because nobody can afford to live in Dublin on that low salary, but I didn't know the problem is also at management level.
I have noticed recruits since 2021 are less capable than they should be though, at EO, AO and AP grades. I thought I was just unlucky!

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261397#Comment_122261397

Interesting. I've heard they're struggling with finding COs because nobody can afford to live in Dublin on that low salary, but I didn't know the problem is also at management level.
I have noticed recruits since 2021 are less capable than they should be though, at EO, AO and AP grades. I thought I was just unlucky!

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261441#Comment_122261441

Agreed. No merit-based promotion is bananas.

Also the whole concept of a "generalist" grade is utterly ridiculous if they want to attract career-minded people. Jobs and specialities are not interchangeable anymore, if they ever were.

You can't just put a warm body in a seat and then pat yourself on the back for a job well done, when these recruits are supposed to be developing new national policy, writing legislation and government memoranda, looking at and advocating for portions of national budgets and analysing demographic data, as well as knowing what policies to look at historically, who to say yes to and (much more importantly) who to say no to and why. And all this is separate from the fact that no value whatsoever is given to subject-matter expertise.

These people combined are running the country, and yet it is considered acceptable to have any warm body in a seat in these roles, so long as they pass a general IQ test.

It's utter madness, and the fact that I can be plonked into any random job on promotion gives me very considerable pause. I am currently seeing APs struggling and failing because they have no subject-matter expertise. Some have never even had policy jobs before, so they've almost been set up to fail!

This is the #1 thing that puts me off promotion. It's no way to run a country.