Existing House - BER and DIY insulation

Mellor

I was talking to somebody about the BER they recently had done (for a grant) subsequently to getting solar.
The result was a lower than expected (C3). It's a 70s built block cavity block wall house. Extension built ~20 years ago. Original wall lined with 70mm PIR since then. So wall performance should be been decent enough.

They mentioned that the BER assessor said that the additional insulation could not be counted as the owner had installed it himself and it needs to be a registered builder/installer to be counted towards the BER. I asked was he talking about up with qualifying for a grant to upgrade the insulation. And was certain that he was not. Which was back up by the the advisory report which listed a sky high average U-Value (~1.5 W/m2K). 🤨

I said he should go back and ask to have it reviewed. And I suggest he asked for an export of the workbook/calcs to see what numbers have been used. Im unsure what the options for a review of the cert are. Either he agrees to do it again. Or next step?

Wonder if other have seen anything like that before?

SeanieRetrofitter

I had exactly the same experience- 100mm PIR on exterior walls of a early 80s house. DIY with no certificates so it was rated poor at 0.75.

The default was 1 for the house type/year i think, so a little improvement as the measurements clearly showed a big gap between plasterboard and the concrete- but without documentation it wasn't fully credited in the BER.

I think there's different defaults for different time periods- 80s houses deemed better than 70s houses etc.

I don't think there's an appeals process- the SEAI can audit, but failing that means the BER is revoked.

It's not like a lower BER rating actually makes the house colder though. Once the SEAI pay out on the grant on receipt I'm not concerned- i know house warm my house is.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117127#Comment_122117127

I can understand that a visible gap would impact the credit. And they probably are right to be harsh with how it's applied.
But in this case, it seems line the old part of the house has been plugged in at the 70s value with zero credit for the internal plasterboard. It's completely contrary to my understanding of how DIY should be treated. So jsut wondering if rules changes, or if the guy was just wrong.

But in terms of caring, this person is as per you. They aren't selling, so they don't care and there no real impact.
I just care as I think paying an assessor for a job should mean its done diligently. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058351000/existing-house-ber-and-diy-insulation

hi mellor, like anything theres some half-truths and understanding going on here with this person.

with a renovation or extension, SEAI accept a letter from the builder / contractor stating the type and thickness of insulation installed in the dwelling. if its a DIY job, they dont accept the homeowners letter. However, if the homeowner wants to have this insulation included there are other alternatives. If they have receipts from the insulation suppliers which states the address and type and thickness of the insulation, they will suffice. If there are photographs of the installation, sufficient to show the extent of the insulation, and type and thickness, that will also suffice. Barring all that, if the client if willing to remove a wall socket (or some other installation ie a wall vent) from which the assessor can measure and photograph the insulation on each wall, that will suffice.

it must be noted that this isnt the assessor being awkward, its the system SEAI have employed, and to be fair, they are saying that 'if you have upgraded insulation in the past, prove it'.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122131799#Comment_122131799

I know they shouldn't take anyones word for it. And aware the SEAI have strict rules for various scenarios. Which is why I asked in the rules changed. The assessor was quite clear when he said that he could not count DIY insulation. Which sounded ludicrous to me. Appendix S is pretty clear that original walls upgraded retrofitting, even by DIY can be calculated by either S3b or S3c. Neither were applied in that case.

The owner had photos of the insulation being installed (70mm insulation back). Which is listed the DEAP survey guide, and sockets were readily accessible in the relevant parts. The actually u-value would have been ~0.25 at least, the conservative tables in the DEAP manual give .30-.49 (depending on age). The report, as above was 1.5 W/m2K.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133374#Comment_122133374

i can only say the assessor was misguided

the BER checklist that SEAI produced clearly says that "Photographs showing insulation type and thickness" are acceptable, also "Copies of invoices with detailed description of materials (e.g. insulation type, thickness and quantity)"

https://www.seai.ie/publications/BER-Homeowner-Checklist.pdf

once its provable, its admissable

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133649#Comment_122133649

That was my understanding, thanks for confirming.
It's area I'm familiar with, but I don't actively stay updated on the latest - as I'm not on the ground assessing day to day.
So wanted to confirm. Thanks