Russia-Ukraine War (Threadbanned in op)

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225889#Comment_122225889

I see as being akin to a boxer throwing constant jabs… won't land a K/O or win you the fight, but will soften up the opponent over time, wear down morale, sap energy, divert attention and feel out for weaknesses.

I'd trust the UAF to get the balance right between battlefield strikes and hitting the likes of refineries, tugs etc.

Virgil°

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226315#Comment_122226315

There's been several reports recently about how Ukraine had disrupted something like 15% of Russias refinery capacity. If I'm in Ukraines shoes I'd be sending every UAV i have at every refinery possible every night. If they even doubled that number and Russia was forced to buy refined product for domestic use and their military it's hard to see how Russia continues to function as a state at all.

I dunno though maybe there's more to it.

Lucien_Sarti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226085#Comment_122226085

Most peer powers and bankers wars are like that. There is a brief chat amongst the real rulers (or their messenger boys if it’s a façade gov’t) before a war where the limits to violence are set and the mutually lucrative trading & infrastructure that will remain undamaged are defined.

Even some colonial wars are similar. The US paid off the Taliban to use certain roads unmolested in the recent tax laundering scam in Afghanistan- its just easier & mutually beneficial in some cases for the kind of people who engineer wars.

The only exception to such trading arrangements to my knowledge are wars of extermination like the Wests attempted extermination of the Russian & slavic people in 1941 (the 3rd Reich being a non-aligned Western power before 1939).

A related example of ‘war is just a business’ for a certain class of people: Ford & other US German-based corporations funnelled profits out thru Switzerland between 41-45 (after paying local tax which helped fund Barbarossa) while simultaneously the US gov’t provided trucks & aid to the USSR).

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226413#Comment_122226413

The USSR and the 3rd Reich signed a non-agression treaty in 1939 so they were in cahoots in invading Poland!

zerosquared

Ah 💩

https://twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/1798657844884988183

Lucien_Sarti

The USSR and the 3rd Reich signed a non-agression treaty in 1939 so they were in cahoots in invading Poland!

I refuse to believe anyone hasn’t heard that explained a thousand times online from the Soviet viewpoint.

I will give credit to the British & French Empires for shaping the outline & timeline of the main clash in the European theatre of WWII by signing their own non-aggression pacts & naval pacts etc with Hitler in the 30s yet rebuffing all pacts between them & the USSR (after wasting years on pretence talks -vital to allow Hitler to maximise military strength to his own timeline). While then refusing Stalins plan to take the initiative and face down Hitler with full force in CZ in 1937/38 (because instead they wanted one of -the 3rd Reich/USSR- to knock the other out- zero concern for the 10s of millions that would be killed- this is the Western ruling class we are talking about here after all). And they forced Mannerheim -a minnow- to go to war with the USSR against his better judgement instead of assisting his neighbours protection (this took literally years of carrot & stick, persuasion threats & coercion) to engineer.

That’s only some of it! The GB & FR ruling class played a blinder in poker terms.

The 3rd Reich Vs USSR clash is the MOST externally sculpted and engineered large battle/holocaust in history (in addition to the two main players).

But that’s all I’ll say as I don’t want to derail the thread from the current proxy war ( /trading arrangements).

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226763#Comment_122226763

Oh dear you forgot that bit of history where the Germans were training in USSR for years before the pact as a way of avoiding Versailles restrictions

Was that “externally sculpted” too?

Who knew that Stalin was such a pliable fool, was he also “externally influenced” to kill millions by sending them to gulag concentration camps and whole of red army office core and starve millions of Ukrainians too

Sleepy

"explained…. online from the Soviet viewpoint" = lied about by the Kremlin and regurgitated by their army of useful idiots.

In 1939 Russia was involved in an imperialist, expansionary invasion of another sovereign state.

In 2022, they did it yet again. The only major difference being that this time a (much smaller) Russian decided to be the ones wearing a new form of SwaZtika.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226085#Comment_122226085

It is bizarre and makes you realise the power of money that supposed deadly enemies can still cooperate on something like that

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226894#Comment_122226894

One has to wonder if Putin is actually a CIA plant who is being “externally sculpted” to kill half a million Russians, and destroy the Russian economy and all its military equipment and make the demographic situation even more dire while giving rise to a Russian hating large country right on its borders

😆

Lucien_Sarti

IMO, the reason for the slow yet intense pace of this “Most Provoked War Imaginable” is that if Putin took the whole of Ukraine initially, Russia would be savaged with the guerrilla war that US/NATO had prepared for 15 years for i.e. their stay-behind Plan A (no plan B). So with this strategy, the Russians are doing the fighting on a traditional battlefield. After years of this – the stay behind guerrilla army will have no fight in them. I’d say 60-70% of them are dead already, if not more.

I despise F.UK.US imperialism with every fibre of my being but if this situation was reversed and this was a Russian proxy war in Mexico, with the same events that the US did in Ukraine having been done by Russia in Mexico – even I would support a US invasion of Mexico to protect itself from such an existential border attack.

lied about by the Kremlin

Everything the Kremlin says is lies.

Everything the Hegemon says is true.

CIA/MI6 ladybird books of history are real. Not false.

Powerful stuff.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226811#Comment_122226811

I'm really disappointed with the quality of the Kremlinbot lies - they always say Russia was forced to do this and that (usually attack, kill or murder). If they are such a great country they shouldn't be so prone to external influence.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227060#Comment_122227060

"Most Provoked War Imaginable"

This is deluded nonsense, with added whataboutery about Mexico, completely without foundation.

Ukraine wasn't in Russia. Russia attacks Ukraine from Russian territory so Ukraine defends itself.

Russia has violated multiple treaties with Ukraine, treaties designed to avoid provocation - Budapest for example, under which Ukraine gave up weapons that could have attacked Russia. The Kremlin lied about the content of Budapest, this is a matter of public record so you don't have to wait for their ladybird version. You can find that out for yourself easily enough instead of taking the Kremlin feed.

Everything Ukraine has done was within the bounds of treaties, going all the way back to Helsinki accords signed by the USSR. Which Russia claims to be the successor state of, when it suits it.

The only side that has been provoked is Ukraine, anything else is Russian propaganda without merit or foundation.

Everything the Kremlin says is lies has been a pretty good guide as far as this conflict goes.

How about you start listing all the things the Kremlin has lied about in relation to this conflict, and come back to us next year when you've finished the list.

Paddigol

LOL. Nice soundbites, but no substance there. Unless you're a conspiracy theory loving, bitter, 'West'-hating conspiracy theorist, in which case who needs substance.

Provoked. Yeah, it's awful when a nation's citizens use their hard-fought democratic voice to decide which way they want their country to go.

But as I say, the conspiracy theorists, lapping up the hysteria being created by Kremlin interference (oh the irony) in the politics and economics of other countries will be tripping over themselves to agree with any word salad reinvention of history.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226763#Comment_122226763

Getting a little too into conspiracy theory revisionism there.

Calling the war a "current proxy war" is a little disengenuous. It's a full-scale invasion of another country by Putin, decided by Putin and can be ended at any time by Putin (by simply turning around)

Other countries are providing their limited support to the defender.

zerosquared

In that alternative reality what if world i highly doubt the US would be bogged down 20 miles inside the Mexican border three years into their three day special military operation

Virgil°

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227060#Comment_122227060

The idea that Russia planned to be stuck in a brutal protracted war of attrition years after the columns of tanks failed their thunder run on Kiev, years after their failed plan to decapitate Ukrainian leadership by landing at Hostamel is absolutely comical. As some sort of 4D chess move to avoid some guerilla warfare?

No. The simplest answer is the correct one.

Russia planned to storm kiev and kharkiv. Kill Zelensky, decapitate the government and military leadership. And then settle in for the long haul. But they failed due to a mixture of corruption, incompetence, western support, Ukrainian f*ck you attitude and Zelensky not running. There's a reason many of the invaders were being supplied with riot gear.

And we're still here because Putin just doesn't know how to take his cards off the table. Easy as.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225889#Comment_122225889

It’s even better than that, see that cope cage on the left there that had one job

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227139#Comment_122227139

Indeed. Russian soldiers had parade uniforms packed and Russian riot police (meant for curbing riots in Kyiv) accidentally found themselves on the front line. They didn't expect it to last long, neither did most analysts.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.politico.eu/article/revealed-russias-best-friends-eu-parliament/

Wallace and Daly are among the 16 biggest Russia supporters in the 705 seat parliament. Do not vote for them tomorrow, give them the lowest possible preference.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227244#Comment_122227244

Easy for us to forget, but most people don't know that these two are completely for sale and have been spouting pro-Russian, pro-Iranian, pro-Syrian BS for years in Brussels. Please do let friends and family know this and not to vote for these two criminals who are acting 100% against our values and our strategic interests.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227139#Comment_122227139

It's just been a 2 year feint.

zerosquared

https://youtu.be/Zk5Il6KQrd8?si=nU-wdrMr8IPv4Ltj

Daamnn my bingo card is full!

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227423#Comment_122227423

Just on that point are you seriously saying that the USSR didn't invade Poland with Hitler in 1939?

saabsaab

USSR in Poland.

The Katyn massacre[a] was a series of mass executions of nearly 22,000 Polish military officers and intelligentsia prisoners of war carried out by the Soviet Union, specifically the NKVD ("People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs", the Soviet secret
police) in April and May 1940. Though the killings also occurred in the Kalinin and Kharkiv prisons and elsewhere, the massacre is named after the Katyn forest, where some of the mass graves were first discovered by German Nazi forces.[2]

The order to execute captive members of the Polish officer corps was secretly issued by the Soviet Politburo led by Joseph Stalin.[3] Of the total killed, about 8,000 were officers imprisoned during the 1939 Soviet invasion of Poland, another 6,000 were police officers, and the remaining 8,000 were Polish intelligentsia the Soviets deemed to be "intelligence agents and gendarmes, spies and saboteurs, former landowners, factory owners and officials".[4] The Polish Army officer class was representative of the multi-ethnic Polish state; the murdered included ethnic Poles, Ukrainians, Belarusians, and 700–900 Polish Jews.

I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227423#Comment_122227423

have a rouble

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227436#Comment_122227436

Yinno, I sort of thought the 'fresh fish from the embassy on Thursday' had died out, guess I was wrong.

Nice ref to a great movie and a great actor.

johnnyskeleton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227060#Comment_122227060

Soviet casualties in Afghanistan from the guerrilla war over 10 odd years - 14,453.

Russian casualties in Ukraine from the traditional battlefield in 2 and a half years (done to avoid such a guerrilla war) - approximately 500,000.

I hate to say it, I really do, but that is not a great plan!

Polar101

It was fun while it lasted, but they're on to us now. Next CIA fan club meeting will be held at the new secret clubhouse.

TheValeyard

This could be a softening of tone

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1798759015004115257