Russia-Ukraine War

Sleepy

That's a scene from Skyfall isn't it?

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188990#Comment_122188990

Tacky Zakhy pumping out the Kremlin spiel as per usual. Disregard.

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189010#Comment_122189010

Oh dear, didn't see Skyfall. I've been slimed.

Randycove

what’s next, a scene from Independence Day and claims that aliens are over Washington?

nigeldaniel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188785#Comment_122188785

I think you misunderstood what i said its the money from stones and gold that the African States want not Russia. The Russians just provide all the networks for that.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188834#Comment_122188834

Memo? Not sure what you are implying. Could you expand.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188867#Comment_122188867

Interesting. I would have thought a large DIY facility like that would have had multiple possible explosive sources.

keeponhurling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188790#Comment_122188790

It's absolutely heartbreaking to see

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189361#Comment_122189361

when are we going to get it into our ‘ International Community Heads ‘ that a Putin’s objective in attacking UKr and ALL his other overseas ventures is to MAKE THE USSR GREAT AGAIN. The reasons he gives for initiating all of his ‘projects’ have nothing to do with them . His one and only reason is to MTUGA. Once we realise that then I would expect our approach as to how the ‘West ‘ addresses him would very significantly change

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189710#Comment_122189710

I think it’s much worse than that, I think Putin in his covid isolation went of the classic conspiracy theory deep end and actually started believing the bullshit his own propaganda produced and fake readiness reports his military shovelled up his way. So he started a war which to every sane observer seems stupid on so many levels, but it’s not if your brain has been rotted by “doing own research”

What’s worse I think he now starting to believe own propaganda that Russia is at war with just about everyone and we are seeing ever increasing activity just below threshold of article 5 being triggered like cyber attacks and now physical sabotage

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186988#Comment_122186988

This is so true. Day after day after day people and especially young in the West on Facebook and Instagram and dating sites and X and hip young alternative bands are shouting Free Palestine and Israel is a terrorist state over and over and over, none of them seem to give a damn about Free Ukraine or boycotting everything connected to Russia.

It's depressing and annoying to see how so many are supposedly obsessed with the middle east but don't care about what's happening on their doorstep

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189070#Comment_122189070

On buses.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189968#Comment_122189968

The middle east is so hot right now, on trend.

About 1.5mn people have been killed there in the last 15 years and Iran has been a very big player in that. You could add another couple hundred thousand dead in Sudan.

Yet the Jooooooz kill 35k, a figure with serious doubts about it, and probably half that are militants then it is marching and vitriol and Govt spectacles.

No one gave a shi7 about the other 98% of the total up to Oct 7th.

Ukraine is one front, Gaza is another, as is the Lebanon border, Russian allies in Syria, Iran and Yemen are all playing their part. As are those marching every Saturday.

Other fronts will open up and probably are already but in low key ways.

It's the one fight.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189984#Comment_122189984

The most active thread on this subforum is about migration, especially of young men from Middle East

The trendy nonsense is already sinking Sinn Fein support as it’s one thing to “send symbolic gestures to give hope” and another for a bus load of young men who hate your culture to land in your village and be paid and housed while doing nothing.

Take a look at the posting history of some of the loudest posters there who done a complete uturn from their previous leftist positions

TheValeyard

Interesting

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1795117663678505265

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189984#Comment_122189984

Your comment that half the Palestinian dead are militants reminds me of the Russians saying any Ukrainian who oppose them must be Nazis. It's simply untrue

Netenjahu and his government are scumbags (as are Hamas), the Israeli military are no more concerned by civilian deaths than the Russian military.

On the other hand, you are right about Iran.

There are many bad players out there right now, but Israel should not be let off the hook. what sickens me is simply the "woke" young European left obsessed with Palestine and have next to zero interest in Ukraine though it's far closer to home

zv2

….

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190376#Comment_122190376

People will die in war and often innocent people, especially in urban fighting. That's the nature of war.

Israel are accepting that and getting on with it, hard as that is. Some think it is right, some would prefer it was different. The 2nd group are the ones laying the ground for the next war in a few years.

Same as Zelensky will accept that getting Russia out will readily cost half a million lives and more for his country. Probably more.

In it to win it.

TheValeyard

Green light?

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1795112111854489739

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190376#Comment_122190376

Speaking of untruths, I doubt you've engaged with any of the 'woke' young Europeans in any meaningful way that would allow you to make such assumptions. Instead you've reached for comfortable, lazy, sweeping generalisations and indulged in that laziest of arguments - that you can't be for one good cause unless you're equally vocal on all good causes. Whereas what you really mean is, "unless you're for the good cause that I rank highest".

There are many valid reasons why the cause of the Palestinians required a much more vocal form of protest than that of the Ukrainians, the most obvious being that Western governments jumped immediately to the defence of the Ukrainians without the need for any prompting, whereas the subjugation of Palestinians has been ongoing for decades without much more than a shrug of the shoulders from Western governments.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189968#Comment_122189968

that’s an interesting point. If one was truly objective in a ‘narrow ‘ way there is one big difference between what is happening in UKr and what is happening in Gaza . Both wars are trying to ‘ put manners’ on the inhabitants to the point where they will be totally annilated and if possible wipe the inhabitants off the face of the earth. The difference Israel will stop at that but Russia will continue on to more sovereign states , create as much damage / interference throughout the democratic world as he can .,’neutralise ‘any Russian individual who Putin does not like and be a nucience whenever the opportunity arises

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188581#Comment_122188581

And I sincerely hope as I stated numerous times that this pointless war over resources finish as soon as possible. It should not started but temptation was strong on both sides.

This war is war of propaganda but it sadly cost lives of simple people who are forced to fight for someone else profit. What is even more tragic is that it is pretty much civil war simply because both actors are slavs with little to no difference between each other.

randomuser02125

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190526#Comment_122190526

A simply incredible assertion

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190526#Comment_122190526

Putin started it and it is for his profit and his circle of friends. Ukraine is fighting for its continued existance as an independent state.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190432#Comment_122190432

That's the stuff. Those bases either become off limits for strikes, or France will "unfortunately" be pulled further into the war.

Virgil°

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190526#Comment_122190526

And I sincerely hope as I stated numerous times that this pointless war over resources finish as soon as possible. It should not started but temptation was strong on both sides.

It's much more a war about ideology. That is to say, Putin saw Ukraine moving away from the Russian\Soviet way of life and towards the Democratic\EU way of doing things. He couldn't allow this on his doorstep or Vlad from Belgorod might start asking why his house is a shack compared to his neighbour Vlod on the other side of the border.

What is even more tragic is that it is pretty much civil war simply because both actors are slavs with little to no difference between each other.

If I valued my life I wouldn't say that one aloud around any actual Ukrainians. I don't know if it's true anyway. Look at Georgia for example. They've a tiny population but they've been kicking off in the streets by the 10s of thousands for weeks on end because they want absolutely nothing to do with Russia.

The same goes for Ukraine from at least 2004 on. They took to the streets in protest against Russianesque voting corruption in the Orange revolution of 2004 and again in 2014 Revolution of Dignity. So theres clearly a spark and longing for freedom in the Ukrainians and the Georgians that is not present in the Russian mindset to the same degree.

I mean ffs. Georgia is a country of less than 4 million. If the higher educated population of Moscow alone (12m) or even St Petersburg(4m) kicked off to the same degree in the streets Putin would be a distant memory. But they haven't so far and it's not looking like they will anytime soon. So I don't think it's fair to say that the average Russian is anything like their neighbours.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189968#Comment_122189968

You're missing a huge difference there, Russia is under massive sanction by Western countries while Israel is still receiving massive amounts of military equipment from the West.. there's no comparison to be made in that sense

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190526#Comment_122190526

?????????????!!!!!!!

Brussels Sprout

If we look at the two major conflicts that are raging at the moment in and on the periphery of, Europe this leads to some interesting permutations with regards to where people's sympathies lie. I have tried to be fair with regard to each grouping so if you fall into one of these categories and you disagree with the description feel free to elaborate. If you want to complain about a grouping that you don't see yourself as part of because I didn't describe them in a negative way then just know that that is intentional - I'm trying to put myself in the mindset of each group.

With Ukraine and Palestine

Probably covers the majority of people in Ireland. Tends to be rooted in opposing large countries colonising smaller weaker neighbours (something we are all too familiar with given our own history). People in this grouping were shocked and disgusted by the events of October 7th but they don't believe that this should give Israel a green light to destroy Gaza and murder tens of thousands of civilians. The Ukrainian conflict is even more clear cut to this group as they see no argument for Russia's actions.

With Ukraine and Israel

This is a more common position elsewhere in Europe and on the political right in the UK and USA. These people see Israel as legitimately defending itself against the atrocities carried out on October 7th by Hamas. They believe that they have a right to continue until such time as all of the hostages taken on that day are found and the leadership of Hamas in Gaza has been eliminated. They see Israel as a lone democracy surrounded by autocratic regimes, with a history of attacking it and believe that it has to be prepared to strike back hard whenever it is attacked. The same goes for their feelings with regard to Ukraine

With Russia and Palestine

You see this especially on the far-left. It's rooted in an intense distrust of American foreign policy as a result of a multitude of historical incidents from the past (The 2003 invasion of Iraq, CIA aided coups in Latin America and Iran to bring down popular leaders and install dictators etc etc). America's unwavering support for Israel over the decades despite increasing number of settlements being built on stolen Palestinian land in the West bank has only led to further cynacism of both countries motives and actions. People in this grouping tend to be deeply suspicious of NATO and and sympathise with any nation who point out the hypocrisies of the US and the wider west when it comes to things like support for Israel. They see the Zelensky government as little more than a puppet of American interests and think that far-right elements within the Ukrainian army have been glossed over by a wester media intent on only painting the Russians as the bogey-men.

With Russia and Israel

I think people falling into this category are deeply suspicious of the prevailing media narratives. They tend to be very skeptical of the establishment and are often natural contrarians. In Ireland especially they see a media that they perceive as being one sided when it comes to both conflicts and are naturally suspicious. The more that they do their own research online the more they find like-minded individuals and realise that they are not alone in their skepticism.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190823#Comment_122190823

And Palestinians are given massive amounts of aid by western countries while the Arabs look on and shrug with indifference (when not busy pouring oil into the fire) at their fellow Muslims

And that’s the problem with all those clumsy comparisons between two wars, they are incomparable

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190853#Comment_122190853

And? Western young people don't need to base their viewpoints on what Arab governments do or do not do.

But otherwise yeah, comparisons are hard to draw and won't bring much

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190526#Comment_122190526

» And I sincerely hope

You don't sincerely hope anything, these are weasel words using by Daly and inc to "both sides" the war.

This isn't a territorial spat between two countries or war over resources. It's a large-scale invasion of Ukraine by Putin, a war of choice that he can end at any time by simply turning around.

Mr. CooL ICE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190526#Comment_122190526

This is one of the most nonsensical posts in this thread in a while.

Civil war due to both countries being slavic? Jaysus. Slav is an ethnicity; not a nationality. If Poland decided to invade Croatia (or Slovakia invading Slovenia etc), would you consider that being like a civil war?

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190864#Comment_122190864

If you are not a socialist when you are 20 you have no heart if you are still a socialist when you are 40 you have no brain

These youngsters will move on to other edgy subjects such as pro Bernie/AOC anti Trump and green watermelon subjects

Thoughts and prayers and “symbolic gestures that give hope” won’t solve either war

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190526#Comment_122190526

Epic fail at spreading inisidious Russian propaganda.

There is no both sides. Russia in violation of multiple treaties illegally launched a war of aggression and plunder against its independent neighbour Ukraine.

This is not a civil war, thats not the definititon of a civil war. Either you dont know what you are talking about or worse, do, and are being deliberately disingenuous.

A post of absolute moral and intellectual bankruptcy.

zv2

@patnor1011 "What is even more tragic is that it is pretty much civil war simply because both actors are slavs with little to no difference between each other."

Ukrainians would vehemently disagree. They see Russians as barbaric and very unlike them. They trace their roots back to Finland and Europe.

TheValeyard

What da fvuk did they hit?????

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1795159059722629455

https://twitter.com/ukraine_map/status/1795160864439370113

Mike3549

Looks like aviation school and airfield

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1795165617391108581?t=UVkBcOrf_VwwsSg0W19HrA&s=19

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191061#Comment_122191061

Reported as an aviation training centre.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191111#Comment_122191111

As long it's Russian controlled infrastructure and preferably full of Russian equipment and personnel, good news.

doyle55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190526#Comment_122190526

Aye, you can feel the love in Crimea between these two Slavic brothers.

https://twitter.com/lexa_lrnt/status/1793308017024213357

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190489#Comment_122190489

I don't need to engage with them, I see them online with their stupid watermelons and labels like "queers for Palestine, ceasefire now!" next to pictures of them partying on mdma at some rave the previous night. Attention seeking morons with no real interest beyond cheap slogans.

I'm talking about the lunatic fringe here.

That Israel deserves huge criticism is a totally separate issue.

johnnyskeleton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190844#Comment_122190844

With Ukraine and neutral towards the Middle East

Recognising that the Middle East is a difficult and morally complex issue that goes back generations if not millenia, and has no easy fix. But that Russia was entirely wrong to invade, Ukraine was entirely right to resist, and the situation can be resolved tomorrow if Russia stop their invasion, withdraw, and pay for the damage theyve done.

johnnyskeleton

On the civil war point, you could legitimately say that civil wars often follow the break up of empires, and that a lot of the issues that Russia are claiming go back to their dissatisfaction with how Ukrainian independence went down. A sort of much delayed Soviet Civil War that has echoes of the civil war of the 1920s.

It isnt particularly accurate as an explanation for the 2022 invasion onwards, but it can be a useful framing device to understand Ukrainian politics in the early 2000s up to 2014 era.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190844#Comment_122190844

What Israel is engaged in is thoroughly shameful and disgusting but I think both conflicts lie firmly in Putin's administration. Ukraine for obvious territorial reasons and a very strong possibility that he machinated Iran to push Hamas into their attack, in order to set off a conflagration that would distract supplies and support for Ukraine. Divide and conquer. He's an bad, bad bastard to use Joe Duffy's language.

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190526#Comment_122190526

here we go again. The old Ukrainians are being forced to fight narrative. 2 and a half years they have held out so far. I don’t see any Ukrainians protesting on the streets anywhere against what their government are doing. They are protesting against Russia and dying against Russia. Thousands of them are here in Ireland and are free to hold such protests and highlight this being “ forced to fight Russia “ it’s not happening. Your post is absolutely disingenuous and you know it. The only protesting Ukrainians are doing is at not being given enough weapons to fight Russia FFS!!!!Little to know difference between them you say ??? There is a massive difference between living in an Autocratic kleptocratic **** hole and a potential western democracy.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188730#Comment_122188730

Is this Russian or Isreali propaganda. I honestly can't tell which.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190844#Comment_122190844

Regarding Israel/Palestine, I would be much more in favour of the innocent people on either side of that conflict who are just trying to get through their daily lives. As much blood as the Netanyahu government has on its hands, I cannot get behind what Hamas did either because they knew full well that the attack they perpetrated would provoke a brutal response from Israel and that ordinary Palestinians would suffer unimaginably. I would go so far as to say that Hamas were banking on this in order to tip the whole regional situation into a runaway train.

And my sympathies would lie with innocent people on both sides of the Russia/Ukraine conflict as well. It's just that Russia is far more of a menace to ordinary Ukrainians at this point in time than vice versa, so virtually all sympathy goes to the Ukrainians right now.

TheValeyard

Could be hearing some good news shortly

https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1795215218194210845

Other sources reporting it:

https://twitter.com/giK1893/status/1795210225542221885

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191775#Comment_122191775

"It's just that Russia is far more of a menace to ordinary Ukrainians at this point in time than vice versa, so virtually all sympathy goes to the Ukrainians right now."

Not just to ordinary Ukrainians but also to the Ukrainians as a political group.

Russia ,as a political grouping unforgiveably invaded Ukraine.

Ukraine has the right to defend itself and if ,in the process more "ordinary Russians" suffer than "ordinary Ukrainians" then I may be disinclined to shed a tear for them to the extent that they bear collective responsibility for their actions.

(of course not all do ,by any means)

If ,hypothetically Ukraine is able to repel the Russian army from its borders and thereafter continues to attack "ordinary Russians" ,then they would deserve sympathy (for what that is worth) but until then the Russian army and its compliant citizenry have only themselves to blame and to console.